{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4986", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4986, "subject": "Urth Digest, Vol 43, Issue 2", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "2008-03-13T05:55:34+00:00", "last": "2008-03-16T10:21:36+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<6.2.1.2.1.20080312232817.03af90e0@pop.vippn.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan", "address": "autarch at vippn.com" }, "date": "2008-03-13T05:55:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 43, Issue 2", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 09:00 PM 3/10/2008, you wrote:\nSome questions, which I think answer each other.\nApologies if this has been discussed before, but I don't\nremember it.\n\nWho killed Valentin?\n\nThe obvious suspect is Lesage, who seems to be the only\nperson who really hated him.\n\nBut how did Lesage know where to find him? And, in a\nrelated vein, what did Ignacio do to win Lesage's trust?\n\nIf the answers are what I think they are, this is really chilling.\n\nPeter" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The buccaneers were laughing at Chris when he asked if they'd seen \nValentin, because Lesage had recently offered them a reward for Valentin \nand they thought that was why Chris was looking for him too. It's clear \nLesage found him first.\n\nLesage seemed to have the uncanny knack of being able to be in the right \nplace at the right time, show up when it was profitable and be delayed when \nthings went awry. In fact, the characters even discussed this at one point \nand were at a loss to figure it out. In a story where time travel is \npossible, this rises above the point of coincidence and is evidence that \nsomeone has pre-knowledge of events. Chris seems very wary of Lesage but \nsays little about him, almost as if he doesn't have to or doesn't want to. \nI believe that Lesage was the visitor at the beginning, for whom Chris \nwrote the book. Chris was very paranoid about not messing with the timeline \nas Ignacio and realized that for things to turn out right for him, Lesage \nwould have to go back as well. With Chris' manuscript, he would know what \nto do and where and when to show up or stay away.\n\nPerhaps Lesage is Chris' son, doing the time travel thing to make sure \nthings turn out the same to make sure he'll be born! That includes killing \nValentin and betraying everyone at the end." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Good questions; I'd love to hear your answers.\n\nRe: Ignacio and Lesage: What evidence is there to suggest that Lesage ever\nmet \"Ignacio?\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't believe there is any, other than what I speculated on above." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As for Valentin - I don't know - I wonder if he killed himself? Chris\nsuggests that possibility... Or perhaps Lesage revealed himself to Valentin\nas Chris and Valentin, seeing the truth, tried to kill his old tormentor?\nAnd then Chris kills Valentin in self-defense?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think there was a large seperation in age between Chris and Lesage \nnot to see a resemblence." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also - do we have any more thoughts on what caused Chris to go back in time\nin the first place?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "At the point when the students become novices, they begin to travel back in \ntime. I think this was a property of the Monastery. If you recall, other \npeople also left abruptly, so they may have been doing the same thing." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And what about that \"Angel of Death\" that Chr says he sees above one of\nthe boats?\n-Matt" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I believe that was after his second raping when he suffered severe head \ntrauma and was wishing death on his tormentors. An homage to Latro, maybe?\n\nDan " } ] }, { "message_id": "<8CA5350FD3AFA10-894-11FC@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com>", "from": { "name": "stoneox17 at aol.com", "address": "stoneox17 at aol.com" }, "date": "2008-03-13T18:41:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 43, Issue 2", "in_reply_to": "<6.2.1.2.1.20080312232817.03af90e0@pop.vippn.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan wrote" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 09:00 PM 3/10/2008, you wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Some questions, which I think answer each other.\nApologies if this has been discussed before, but I don't\nremember it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Who killed Valentin?\nThe obvious suspect is Lesage, who seems to be the only\nperson who really hated him." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But how did Lesage know where to find him? And, in a\nrelated vein, what did Ignacio do to win Lesage's trust?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "If the answers are what I think they are, this is really chilling." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Peter" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The buccaneers were laughing at Chris when he asked if they'd seen\nValentin, because Lesage had recently offered them a reward for \nValentin\nand they thought that was why Chris was looking for him too. It's \nclear\nLesage found him first." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Lesage seemed to have the uncanny knack of being able to be in the \nright\nplace at the right time, show up when it was profitable and be \ndelayed when\nthings went awry. In fact, the characters even discussed this at one \npoint\nand were at a loss to figure it out. In a story where time travel is\npossible, this rises above the point of coincidence and is evidence \nthat\nsomeone has pre-knowledge of events. Chris seems very wary of Lesage \nbut\nsays little about him, almost as if he doesn't have to or doesn't \nwant to.\nI believe that Lesage was the visitor at the beginning, for whom \nChris\nwrote the book. Chris was very paranoid about not messing with the \ntimeline\nas Ignacio and realized that for things to turn out right for him, \nLesage\nwould have to go back as well. With Chris' manuscript, he would know \nwhat\nto do and where and when to show up or stay away." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Exactly. Lesage seems to know too much for him not to have had inside\ninformation from the future. My assumption (and it wasn't my idea) is \nthat\nIgnacio has been feeding him this information. Why? So that \neverything can\nhappen exactly as it did before." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Perhaps Lesage is Chris' son, doing the time travel thing to make \nsure\nthings turn out the same to make sure he'll be born! That includes \nkilling\nValentin and betraying everyone at the end." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Good questions; I'd love to hear your answers.\n\nRe: Ignacio and Lesage: What evidence is there to suggest that \nLesage ever\nmet \"Ignacio?\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I don't believe there is any, other than what I speculated on above." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "As for Valentin - I don't know - I wonder if he killed himself? Chris\nsuggests that possibility... Or perhaps Lesage revealed himself to \nValentin\nas Chris and Valentin, seeing the truth, tried to kill his old \ntormentor?\nAnd then Chris kills Valentin in self-defense?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't think there was a large seperation in age between Chris and \nLesage\nnot to see a resemblence." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Also - do we have any more thoughts on what caused Chris to go back \nin time\nin the first place?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At the point when the students become novices, they begin to travel \nback in\ntime. I think this was a property of the Monastery. If you recall, \nother\npeople also left abruptly, so they may have been doing the same thing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Now, that is an interesting idea. I had assumed it was a one-time \nmiracle." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And what about that \"Angel of Death\" that Chr says he sees above one \nof\nthe boats?\n-Matt" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I believe that was after his second raping when he suffered severe \nhead\ntrauma and was wishing death on his tormentors. An homage to Latro, \nmaybe?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't have any explanation for this.\n\n--Peter" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ashley Crill", "address": "ash_crill at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-03-15T14:47:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 43, Issue 2", "in_reply_to": "<8CA5350FD3AFA10-894-11FC@MBLK-M22.sysops.aol.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Who killed Valentin?\n\nThe obvious suspect is Lesage, who seems to be the only\nperson who really hated him.\n\nBut how did Lesage know where to find him? And, in a\nrelated vein, what did Ignacio do to win Lesage's trust?\n\nIf the answers are what I think they are, this is really chilling.\n\nPeter" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yea, I think its pretty obvious that Ignacio made a deal with Lesage, revealing to him the location of Valentin's cave and the location/date of Burt's treasure caravan.\n\nWhat did Ignacio get in return, though? My brain is fuzzy right now, and I need to read the book again." } ] }, { "message_id": "<20080316102136.E974615804A@mailserver6.hushmail.com>", "from": { "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com", "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com" }, "date": "2008-03-16T10:21:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 43, Issue 2", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yea, I think its pretty obvious that Ignacio made a deal with \nLesage, revealing to him the location of Valentin's cave and the \nlocation/date of Burt's treasure caravan.\n\nWhat did Ignacio get in return, though? My brain is fuzzy right \nnow, and I need to read the book again." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My guess: Ignacio got a big share of the loot from Lesage's \nhijacking of Burt's expedition. Further, he was actually in charge, \nwith Lesage fronting for him. " } ] } ] }