{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4995", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4995, "subject": "Fifth Head of Cerberus: Shadowchildren vs. Abos", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2008-04-11T00:04:17+00:00", "last": "2008-04-15T11:45:21+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "E", "address": "euth82 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-04-11T00:04:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fifth Head of Cerberus: Shadowchildren vs. Abos", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I found a transcript of a chat w/ Gene Wolfe\n\nhttp://home.austin.rr.com/lperson/wolfe.html\n\nHere is an interesting quote:\n-------\nLP: \"'A Story,' by John V. Marsch.\"\n\nGW: \"'A Story,' by John V. Marsch,\" yes, which is not actually written\nby John V. Marsch, but by the shadowchild who has replaced John V.\nMarsch. (laughs) That's New Wave. But belonging to a literary movement\ndoesn't consist so much in using a certain set of techniques, as it\nconsists in running with a certain set of people, and only to a very\nsmall degree did I run with that set of people. So as I said, I would\nbe very peripheral as a New Wave writer.\n-------\n\nSo if Wolfe is being truthful, Marsch was replaced by a shadow-child,\nnot a humanoid abo. Meaning that VRT is a shadow-child.\n\nI know there was an unresolved debate about whether shadow-children\nare the original abos or are the result of early space fairing humans\ndegenerating due to addiction to the drug found on the planet.\n\nAnyway, this doesn't really clear that argument up, but if Wolfe is\ntruthful it certainly makes me think differently about the story,\nbecause \"VRT\" was described as a human in Marsch's journal... but then\nagain, maybe VRT edited even the earliest parts of Marsch's journal to\nsimply say that VRT looked human to Marsch?\n\nIf what Wolfe says is true this also means the shadow-children\nthemselves (or at least VRT) can shapeshift... which we hadn't seen\ndiscussed or mentioned before, it seemed that the shadow children\nweren't able to do this in \"A Story\".\n\nMight VRT be a shadow-child + abo hybrid, rather than human + abo hybrid?\n\nAnyway this has left me more confused than ever about the abo vs\nshadowchild vs settler conundrum but I certainly found Wolfe's quote\ninteresting and surprising.\n\nMaybe you guys have other ideas about this. Then again, Wolfe is\nquoted as laughing after saying the VRT = shadowchild line..." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Crossley", "address": "ishmael at drizzle.com" }, "date": "2008-04-11T03:36:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fifth Head of Cerberus: Shadowchildren vs. Abos", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 4/10/08 5:04 PM, \"E\" wrote:\nI found a transcript of a chat w/ Gene Wolfe" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So if Wolfe is being truthful, Marsch was replaced by a shadow-child,\nnot a humanoid abo. Meaning that VRT is a shadow-child.\n\nI know there was an unresolved debate about whether shadow-children\nare the original abos or are the result of early space fairing humans\ndegenerating due to addiction to the drug found on the planet." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My understanding was that the shadow children were the original inhabitants,\nable to shapeshift but lacking a humanoid model until the humans arrived and\ncolonized the planet. Once that happened, the shadow children mimicked the\ncolonizers (becoming known to them as \"abos\" along the way) sometimes so\nsuccessfully that they might forget their true nature.\n\nJames" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-04-15T11:45:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fifth Head of Cerberus: Shadowchildren vs. Abos", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "My understanding was that the shadow children were the original inhabitants,\nable to shapeshift but lacking a humanoid model until the humans arrived and\ncolonized the planet. Once that happened, the shadow children mimicked the\ncolonizers (becoming known to them as \"abos\" along the way) sometimes so\nsuccessfully that they might forget their true nature.<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's how I see it too. Humans came to the planets in several waves. The first ship crashed and the few survivors became the template for some shadow children to become human-like abos. Later waves brought civilized humans but they were subject to replacement by abos, who despite losing their memory of being shadow children, retained their shape changing ability, perhaps as an unconscious reflex. It might be that all the natives of both planets are abos who have replaced the real humans. Marsch was a true human from earth (not a particularly nice one) but was soon replaced by an abo." } ] } ] }