{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5009",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 5009,
    "subject": "Seven American Nights Forgery?",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2008-05-07T05:32:35+00:00",
    "last": "2008-05-09T16:44:32+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<48213EF3.2080003@gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dave Tallman",
        "address": "davetallman at msn.com"
      },
      "date": "2008-05-07T05:32:35+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth)  Seven American Nights Forgery?",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "The story ends with \"Do you think this is his handwriting?...Perhaps. \nPerhaps.\"\n\nAnd perhaps not. This adds K+1 to the abstraction. Nadan's account is \nalready unreliable because of drugs he may have taken, his excisions, \nand other omissions. What if some of the story is forged?  We know the \nmuseum man has a machine that can forge handwriting, and another that \ncan compose stories. It's not implausible that it could do so in Farsi.\n\nSuppose the U.S. government decided that Nadan needed to disappear. They \nmight have planted the notebook to lay a false trail for the \ninvestigator. I don't think the whole thing is forged -- that would be \ntoo simple of a \"closed loop.\" The notebook is not of American \nmanufacture; it wouldn't be so easy to replace the whole thing. But if \nthe forging machine can wield a pen it would be easy to add a misleading \nending.\n\nWhere does the forgery begin? The story of the glass of alcohol is \nfishy. Ardis would know that most Muslims don't drink, and could have \nlearned from Bobby that Nadan himself doesn't. Knowing this, Nadan \nwouldn't have used that particular ruse. (By the way, the story seems \nlike a twisted version of Cupid and Psyche). If my theory is true, the \ngovernment also killed Ardis with his gun. She probably does have a \ndeformity but the real Nadan never saw it.\n\nThe Easter parade account also looks wrong. A Muslim wouldn't refer to \nJesus as \"the dead leader lifted up,\" since Jesus is respected as a \nprophet in Islam. This could have been forged in case the paraders \nremembered seeing them. This might have been the last time both were \nseen alive. The costumes for the party were both fairly concealing \n(armor and Egyptian robes), allowing an impersonation there.\n\nFurther back than this, the story looks genuine. I believe at least the \naccount of the room being searched is real. That's when the government \nagents took a copy of the journal as input for the forging machine. They \nmay also have chemically analyzed the remaining eggs and taken the \nhallucinogenic one. They would want Nadan sober for his interrogation.\n\nWhat was the motive for the abduction? The museum man could well be a \nhigh-level government agent. The man with no lower jaw may have let slip \na major rumor when he said \"Someday we are great again.\" Given the way \nhe talks, there's no phonetic difference between that and \"Sunday we are \ngreat again.\" Perhaps a big forgery was planned for Easter Sunday that \ncould change the fortunes of fallen America.\n\nIf so, the appearance of the museum man at the play was no coincidence. \nHe followed Nadan there and pumped him to see what he knew. A few days \nlater, someone decided that Nadan knew too much...\n\nDoes the forgery account for a missing day? I doubt it. Computers can at \nleast count. I count seven full days if the first day of sightseeing \nwent north but not all the way to the ruined capital buildings. There \nare a few hints that this is the case:\n\n1) Writing with closed shutters and a candle (p. 340, Orb edition of \nIODDAOSAOS). Something outside beating on the shutters (A wild animal? \nMoths?) seems to indicate late at night. On the day he visits the ruins, \nhe opens the shutters and the sun is just setting.\n\n2) He's fearful and homesick that first day. The second day he's brave \nenough to go out to a restaurant and to the theater at night.\n\n3) His attitude about going to the park changes. On p. 339 he wants to \npostpone it until he has seen other things. On p. 344 he is ashamed he \ndidn't go that day. This seems more likely if they are two different days.\n\n4) He says he spent the whole day at the ruins on p. 347. The other day \nmentions sleeping late, listening to musicians, and people-watching. His \nfirst writing for that day is at about 4:30pm (midnight Iran time with \nlocal daylight savings time p. 338) back in his room, which doesn't \nallow that much time for ruin explorations."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<001401c8b1f3$f7ec7fe0$6ed04a0c@rclackey.stic.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Roy C. Lackey",
        "address": "rclackey at stic.net"
      },
      "date": "2008-05-09T16:44:32+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Seven American Nights Forgery?",
      "in_reply_to": "<48213EF3.2080003@gmail.com>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Dave Tallman wrote:\nSuppose the U.S. government decided that Nadan needed to disappear. They\nmight have planted the notebook to lay a false trail for the\ninvestigator. I don't think the whole thing is forged -- that would be\ntoo simple of a \"closed loop.\" The notebook is not of American\nmanufacture; it wouldn't be so easy to replace the whole thing. But if\nthe forging machine can wield a pen it would be easy to add a misleading\nending."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "And in a subsequent post:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "The reader of the forged account is supposed to believe that Nadan,\ndespondent over having loved a werewolf and possibly crazed by the\ndrugged egg, has set out alone for the interior of America. I believe he\nwas captured and killed by the F.E.D. instead."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "If the F.E.D., for reasons unexplained, wanted Nadan dead, and in fact\nkilled him, they would have to have gone to extraordinary lengths in forging\nan account no one else had reason to believe even existed, and in so doing\ndo something pointless and stupid. If Nadan had been killed by the U.S.\ngovernment, the government would have no reason to suppose that a private\ninvestigator would eventually be hired by his family to investigate his\ndisappearance, so there would be no need to \"plant\" a false account. Nadan\nwould simply have disappeared without a trace, or been the victim of a\nrandom \"crime\" or \"accident\" in a rough and violent land.\n\n-Roy"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}