{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5062", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5062, "subject": "size of erebus, et al.", "messages": 7, "voices": 5, "first": "2008-06-18T17:46:57+00:00", "last": "2008-06-21T11:11:09+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<196536.75609.qm@web58215.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-06-18T17:46:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) size of erebus, et al.", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I always thought the retconned story of Theseus and the novascaputs with the enormous sea ship was indicative of the size of the monsters like abaia. the student's creation must face that enormous sea creature that dyes the ship. Those stories always seemed to reflect both thematically and factually to Severian's main narative.\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-06-19T13:32:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) FW: size of erebus, et al.", "in_reply_to": "<196536.75609.qm@web58215.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "marc aramini says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I always thought the retconned story of Theseus and the novascaputs with the\nenormous sea ship was indicative of the size of the monsters like abaia. the\nstudent's creation must face that enormous sea creature that dyes the ship.\nThose stories always seemed to reflect both thematically and factually to Severian\n's main narative." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Though it is a mangled legend, I agree, keeping in mind that it is a naviscaput= ship\n head monster, the big ship being only the tip of the \"iceberg\". I always assumed the\n rest of his body extended down to the ocean floor, his \"feet\" roiling the benthos as\n he walked. Seems plausible his entire size could be somewhat akin to a mountain's.\n \nI also find numerous hints in the text that the coming of the new sun will, in fact, rid\nUrth/Ushas of such monstrosities/megatherians. I just found another subtle one during\na recent re-reading:\n \n In his conversation with Master Ash, Severian is made to understand that the Ascians\n are currently engaged in a desperate, frantic attempt to gain a quick military advantage.\n The reason for the desperate need is left sounding important but unexplained. I think it\n may be that Erebus and Abaia are somehow aware that the autarchy is about to be\n passed on to a likely New Sun bringer and they hope to stop it.\n _________________________________________________________________\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<485AC54E.3060200@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-06-19T20:45:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) FW: size of erebus, et al.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "b sharp wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "marc aramini says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I always thought the retconned story of Theseus and the novascaputs with the\nenormous sea ship was indicative of the size of the monsters like abaia. the\nstudent's creation must face that enormous sea creature that dyes the ship.\nThose stories always seemed to reflect both thematically and factually to Severian\n's main narative." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Though it is a mangled legend, I agree, keeping in mind that it is a naviscaput= ship\n head monster, the big ship being only the tip of the \"iceberg\". I always assumed the\n rest of his body extended down to the ocean floor, his \"feet\" roiling the benthos as\n he walked. Seems plausible his entire size could be somewhat akin to a mountain's." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The giant keeps to channels on the island most of the time, doesn't he? \n\nI think he owes more to the other ur-story, the Battle of Hampton Roads, \nwhere the Monitor's considerable but not mountainous bulk remains at or \nbelow the waterline with only a 10 x 20 foot turret exposed." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-06-20T14:02:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) FW: size of erebus, et al.", "in_reply_to": "<485AC54E.3060200@io.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson says: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The giant keeps to channels on the island most of the time, doesn't he? \nI think he owes more to the other ur-story, the Battle of Hampton Roads, \nwhere the Monitor's considerable but not mountainous bulk remains at or \nbelow the waterline with only a 10 x 20 foot turret exposed." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, me calling the channels \"ocean\" could be a notable error since we are \ndiscussing size. Battle of Hampton Roads! I hadn't heard the Monitor and \nMerrimac battle called that before; thanks! Anyway, the Naviscaput has a \nfingertip so I extrapolate that he has a somewhat human body, not just a boat\nshape.\n\nHowever, I think all debates on the \"true\" size of megatherians might be moot. \nI consider them to be in some way the peers of Tzadkiel: god-like creatures. \nAnd I think the scene where Tzadkiel pinches off a finger to create a human sized\nagent is very important. We see a fairy-sized Tzadkiel later. Could the giant \nTzadkiel that Severian talks to be a pinched off version also? How big is the Tzadkiel\nSeverian sees in the old Autarch's book? Planet-sized? Sun sized? Galaxy-sized?\nThat may seem ridiculous but the Hierogrammates are capable of creating as many\nsuns as they deem necessary; they might be very very big.\n\nAnyway, I think the megatherians might able to create smaller agents of \nthemselves in similar fashion, enabling them to mate with Juturna and her sisters\nor interact directly with humans, take other shapes, etc.\n_________________________________________________________________\nThe other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i’m Talkathon.\nhttp://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving" } ] }, { "message_id": "<485BC1BD.7000208@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-06-20T14:42:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) FW: size of erebus, et al.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "b sharp wrote:\n\nJeff Wilson says: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The giant keeps to channels on the island most of the time, doesn't he? \nI think he owes more to the other ur-story, the Battle of Hampton Roads, \nwhere the Monitor's considerable but not mountainous bulk remains at or \nbelow the waterline with only a 10 x 20 foot turret exposed." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yes, me calling the channels \"ocean\" could be a notable error since we are \ndiscussing size. Battle of Hampton Roads! I hadn't heard the Monitor and \nMerrimac battle called that before; thanks! Anyway, the Naviscaput has a \nfingertip so I extrapolate that he has a somewhat human body, not just a boat\nshape." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You're welcome. It confused me for the longest time how there could be a \n*naval* battle at a place called Hampton Roads, but I guess I 'm not the \nonly one and perhaps it is reflected in the network of canals, watery \n\"roads\" that allow the naviscaput to be on the island but still in the \nwater." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<485C4A0F.8080105@hyraxes.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Lebling", "address": "dlebling at hyraxes.com" }, "date": "2008-06-21T00:23:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) FW: size of erebus, et al.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just as Tzadkiel is like an angel, Abaia and the other megatherians are \nlike devils; as fallen \"angels\" is it surprising that they would have \nmany of the same capabilities and similar appearance?\n\n-- Dave Lebling, aka vizcacha" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "b sharp wrote:\nJeff Wilson says: \n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The giant keeps to channels on the island most of the time, doesn't he? \nI think he owes more to the other ur-story, the Battle of Hampton Roads, \nwhere the Monitor's considerable but not mountainous bulk remains at or \nbelow the waterline with only a 10 x 20 foot turret exposed.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yes, me calling the channels \"ocean\" could be a notable error since we are \ndiscussing size. Battle of Hampton Roads! I hadn't heard the Monitor and \nMerrimac battle called that before; thanks! Anyway, the Naviscaput has a \nfingertip so I extrapolate that he has a somewhat human body, not just a boat\nshape.\n\nHowever, I think all debates on the \"true\" size of megatherians might be moot. \nI consider them to be in some way the peers of Tzadkiel: god-like creatures. \nAnd I think the scene where Tzadkiel pinches off a finger to create a human sized\nagent is very important. We see a fairy-sized Tzadkiel later. Could the giant \nTzadkiel that Severian talks to be a pinched off version also? How big is the Tzadkiel\nSeverian sees in the old Autarch's book? Planet-sized? Sun sized? Galaxy-sized?\nThat may seem ridiculous but the Hierogrammates are capable of creating as many\nsuns as they deem necessary; they might be very very big.\n\nAnyway, I think the megatherians might able to create smaller agents of \nthemselves in similar fashion, enabling them to mate with Juturna and her sisters\nor interact directly with humans, take other shapes, etc.\n_________________________________________________________________\nThe other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i’m Talkathon.\nhttp://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1654235719.20080621131109@poczta.fm>", "from": { "name": "Stanisław Bocian", "address": "sbocian at poczta.fm" }, "date": "2008-06-21T11:11:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) FW: size of erebus, et al.", "in_reply_to": "<485C4A0F.8080105@hyraxes.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "An HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: " } ] } ] }