{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5082", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5082, "subject": "Terminus Est", "messages": 24, "voices": 12, "first": "2008-07-02T06:11:40+00:00", "last": "2008-07-12T04:19:46+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2008-07-02T06:11:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Can anyone please direct me to a link to what you feel is the best picture\nof what Terminus Est looks like?\n \nThanks\n \nStuart\n \nOK I'm going to be in Buenos Aires and Nessus seems like a good place for a\nnew tattoo...\n \n\n\n skype: stuart.hamm \n\n stuarthamm.net\n\n \n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<882309C4-25D3-4485-8DB6-35242CED6A08@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-02T06:16:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0312890176/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link\n\nThat's the cover of Shadow and Claw, with a pretty good picture. TE \nis actually a copy of a common medieval executioner's sword, like this \none:\n\nhttp://lh3.ggpht.com/_NbJ7tGRdKh0/SA5jUTfngHI/AAAAAAAAAhg/02p19YKx228/DSC01101.JPG\n\nExcept of course it has the mercury channel, which I ran by some \nswordsmith friends of mine who told me that it wouldn't be possible to \nactually make a mercury channel and fill it with mercury and have the \nsword retain enough strength. The spine of the sword is actually what \ngives it its strength.\n\nLane" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 2, 2008, at 1:11 AM, Stuart Hamm wrote:\nCan anyone please direct me to a link to what you feel is the best \npicture of what Terminus Est looks like?\n\nThanks\n\nStuart\n\nOK I'm going to be in Buenos Aires and Nessus seems like a good \nplace for a new tattoo...\n\n\n\n skype: stuart.hamm\n\n stuarthamm.net\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<486B436B.3080405@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-07-02T08:59:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<882309C4-25D3-4485-8DB6-35242CED6A08@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Lane Haygood wrote:\nhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0312890176/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link\n\nThat's the cover of Shadow and Claw, with a pretty good picture. TE is \nactually a copy of a common medieval executioner's sword, like this one:\n\nhttp://lh3.ggpht.com/_NbJ7tGRdKh0/SA5jUTfngHI/AAAAAAAAAhg/02p19YKx228/DSC01101.JPG\n\nExcept of course it has the mercury channel, which I ran by some \nswordsmith friends of mine who told me that it wouldn't be possible to \nactually make a mercury channel and fill it with mercury and have the \nsword retain enough strength. The spine of the sword is actually what \ngives it its strength." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I understand that pistol-size rayguns and interstellar-range spacecraft \nare also not actually possible. Who does that Wolfe guy think he is fooling?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<6312.67.142.130.49.1214990908.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-07-02T09:28:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<882309C4-25D3-4485-8DB6-35242CED6A08@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It could be done with a brass tube.\n\nIt would be a tricky bit of work.\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0312890176/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link\n\nThat's the cover of Shadow and Claw, with a pretty good picture. TE\nis actually a copy of a common medieval executioner's sword, like this\none:\n\nhttp://lh3.ggpht.com/_NbJ7tGRdKh0/SA5jUTfngHI/AAAAAAAAAhg/02p19YKx228/DSC01101.JPG\n\nExcept of course it has the mercury channel, which I ran by some\nswordsmith friends of mine who told me that it wouldn't be possible to\nactually make a mercury channel and fill it with mercury and have the\nsword retain enough strength. The spine of the sword is actually what\ngives it its strength.\n\nLane\n\n\nOn Jul 2, 2008, at 1:11 AM, Stuart Hamm wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Can anyone please direct me to a link to what you feel is the best\npicture of what Terminus Est looks like?\n\nThanks\n\nStuart\n\nOK I'm going to be in Buenos Aires and Nessus seems like a good\nplace for a new tattoo...\n\n\n\n skype: stuart.hamm\n\n stuarthamm.net\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<187334.31927.qm@web83722.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "John Smith", "address": "jsmith2627 at att.net" }, "date": "2008-07-02T12:26:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<6312.67.142.130.49.1214990908.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The mercury channel would weaken the spine of the\nsword no matter how it was made. Another problem: If\nthe empty part of the channel is filled with air, the\npressure of the air would impede the mercury from\nflowing freely when the sword descends. The empty\narea needs to be a vacuum. This would be hard to\ncraft and would further weaken the sword.\n\nJack" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- brunians at brunians.org wrote:\nIt could be done with a brass tube.\n\nIt would be a tricky bit of work.\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0312890176/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "That's the cover of Shadow and Claw, with a pretty\ngood picture. TE\nis actually a copy of a common medieval\nexecutioner's sword, like this\none:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://lh3.ggpht.com/_NbJ7tGRdKh0/SA5jUTfngHI/AAAAAAAAAhg/02p19YKx228/DSC01101.JPG" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Except of course it has the mercury channel, which\nI ran by some\nswordsmith friends of mine who told me that it\nwouldn't be possible to\nactually make a mercury channel and fill it with\nmercury and have the\nsword retain enough strength. The spine of the\nsword is actually what\ngives it its strength.\n\nLane\n\n\nOn Jul 2, 2008, at 1:11 AM, Stuart Hamm wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Can anyone please direct me to a link to what you\nfeel is the best\npicture of what Terminus Est looks like?\n\nThanks\n\nStuart\n\nOK I'm going to be in Buenos Aires and Nessus\nseems like a good\nplace for a new tattoo...\n\n\n\n skype: stuart.hamm\n\n stuarthamm.net\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20080702134822.GC13802@craft>", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-02T13:48:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<882309C4-25D3-4485-8DB6-35242CED6A08@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On 2008.07.02 01:16:38 -0500, Lane Haygood scribbled 4.5K characters:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0312890176/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link\n That's the cover of Shadow and Claw, with a pretty good picture. TE is actually a copy of a\n common medieval executioner's sword, like this one:\nhttp://lh3.ggpht.com/_NbJ7tGRdKh0/SA5jUTfngHI/AAAAAAAAAhg/02p19YKx228/DSC01101.JPG\n Except of course it has the mercury channel, which I ran by some swordsmith friends of mine\n who told me that it wouldn't be possible to actually make a mercury channel and fill it with\n mercury and have the sword retain enough strength. The spine of the sword is actually what\n gives it its strength.\n Lane" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've never entirely understood why the mercury channel would be difficult. Here's how I always envisioned it in my reading; we all know that I-beams are so strong for their weight in part because of the excavated material, and from what I can tell, there are any number of swords which use the I-beam shape (fullers, I think they're called).\n\nSo, what's stopping a sword smith from making an I-shaped sword, and then welding a flat layer lengthwise over one side's gap and filling the 'tube' up with some mercury just before the final weld?\n\n(Or doing some even more clever method not apparent to a non-swordsmith like myself...)" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern\nBlacknet NIOG Cocaine 03 SAS MEU/SOCPSAC AOL zip quiche NVD" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1E337091-6FAD-4680-AFE0-E2B156EFE9B3@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-07-02T13:49:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<187334.31927.qm@web83722.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 2, 2008, at 7:26 AM, John Smith wrote:\nThis would be hard to\ncraft and would further weaken the sword." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah, but if you can make pistol-sized ray guns, time-and-dimension- \nhopping-mirrors, and The Ship.....\n\nDoesn't Wolfe *say* in one of the Appendices that Terminus Est is \ninterstellar-level technology, not merely the product of a skilled \nterrestrial blacksmith?\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<486B8B25.5070502@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-07-02T14:05:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<187334.31927.qm@web83722.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "John Smith wrote:\nAnother problem: If\nthe empty part of the channel is filled with air, the\npressure of the air would impede the mercury from\nflowing freely when the sword descends. The empty\narea needs to be a vacuum." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is exactly how Toricelli made a vacuum in 1643, the tube being \nequal in length to TE." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<6256.67.142.130.32.1215007950.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-07-02T14:12:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<187334.31927.qm@web83722.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I still think it is doable.\n\nYou are right about the vacuum: you'd have to let the brass tube into the\nhilt and have a little nipple for pumping it out occasionally. It's\ngetting a little complicated.\n\nI have heard of a similar type of sword that had a sliding weight.\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The mercury channel would weaken the spine of the\nsword no matter how it was made. Another problem: If\nthe empty part of the channel is filled with air, the\npressure of the air would impede the mercury from\nflowing freely when the sword descends. The empty\narea needs to be a vacuum. This would be hard to\ncraft and would further weaken the sword.\n\nJack\n\n\n\n--- brunians at brunians.org wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "It could be done with a brass tube.\n\nIt would be a tricky bit of work.\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0312890176/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "That's the cover of Shadow and Claw, with a pretty\ngood picture. TE\nis actually a copy of a common medieval\nexecutioner's sword, like this\none:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://lh3.ggpht.com/_NbJ7tGRdKh0/SA5jUTfngHI/AAAAAAAAAhg/02p19YKx228/DSC01101.JPG" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Except of course it has the mercury channel, which\nI ran by some\nswordsmith friends of mine who told me that it\nwouldn't be possible to\nactually make a mercury channel and fill it with\nmercury and have the\nsword retain enough strength. The spine of the\nsword is actually what\ngives it its strength.\n\nLane\n\n\nOn Jul 2, 2008, at 1:11 AM, Stuart Hamm wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Can anyone please direct me to a link to what you\nfeel is the best\npicture of what Terminus Est looks like?\n\nThanks\n\nStuart\n\nOK I'm going to be in Buenos Aires and Nessus\nseems like a good\nplace for a new tattoo...\n\n\n\n skype: stuart.hamm\n\n stuarthamm.net\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<486B973C.2080904@oreb.net>", "from": { "name": "Gary", "address": "stuff at oreb.net" }, "date": "2008-07-02T14:57:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<882309C4-25D3-4485-8DB6-35242CED6A08@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Lane Haygood wrote:\n\nExcept of course it has the mercury channel, which I ran by some \nswordsmith friends of mine who told me that it wouldn't be possible to \nactually make a mercury channel and fill it with mercury and have the \nsword retain enough strength. The spine of the sword is actually what \ngives it its strength." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One of Clarke's laws of prediction should apply to swordsmiths as well \nas scientists, eh?\n\"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is \npossible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is \nimpossible, he is very probably wrong.\"\n\nUnquestionably it may be weaker than a solid-core sword, but this \ndoesn't mean it can't be engineered to be sufficiently strong - as \nothers have pointed out we do for bridge girders. This is especially \ntrue if it's built around a mercury-and-vaccuum-filled tube of \nunobtanium - I'm sure it's true that it can't be done to give the \nwonderful combination of properties seen in Terminus Est using current \ntechniques & materials. And I'm very willing to assume they can make a \n\"perfect\" seal around a sufficient vaccuum using some arcane machine.\n\nGary." } ] }, { "message_id": "<486BFA89.4090502@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-07-02T22:00:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<486B973C.2080904@oreb.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gary wrote:\nAnd I'm very willing to assume they can make a \n\"perfect\" seal around a sufficient vaccuum using some arcane machine." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Like the mysterious alien artifact used to make mercury thermometers?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20080702221733.GA13533@craft>", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-02T22:17:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<486BFA89.4090502@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On 2008.07.02 17:00:41 -0500, Jeff Wilson scribbled 0.2K characters:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gary wrote:\nAnd I'm very willing to assume they can make a \"perfect\" seal around a\nsufficient vaccuum using some arcane machine." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Honestly, I think everyone is overcomplicating Terminus Est.\n\nEverything about its construction is explicable through simple mechanisms.\n\nIt has a channel running down the center but is still strong? Simple, it has an I-beam shape and one void is covered up to make a channel.\n\nIt requires an exotic method of forging which creates a vaccuum in it to let the mercury slosh around? Well, why do we need a vacuum at all, when we could just have air in it like normal and avoid displacement problems by making our channel a circular tube.\n\n(This suggestion leads to a nice design where we have two channels, one on either side of the I-beam, and they are linked by a hole at the top and bottom; even better, a double-channel design would hide the I-beam shape and make it basically the flat rectangular prism shape we expect of a sword of justice.)" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern\nHutsul Fox Abbas COSMOS Macintosh Ansar supercomputer Stego HAARP LABLINK" } ] }, { "message_id": "<720711.7862.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2008-07-02T23:16:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<20080702221733.GA13533@craft>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for all the discussion...and to think all I was looking for was a decent picture..\n\nJust to clarify...do I have the tattoo artist put in the mercury filled channel or not??????????????\n\n\nThat might hurt\n\nhehehe" } ] }, { "message_id": "<277038.16557.qm@web83705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "John Smith", "address": "jsmith2627 at att.net" }, "date": "2008-07-02T23:22:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<720711.7862.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Gwern has a clever suggestion about the mercury\nchannel in Terminus Est:\n\n \"Well, why do we need a vacuum at all,\n when we could just have air in it like normal and\navoid displacement\n problems by making our channel a circular tube.\"\n\nThis is a good idea, but I don't think it would work. \n When you raise the sword, the mercury would pool at\nthe bottom in both channels. Then on the downstroke,\nthe mercury would flow down both channels, resulting\nin the same air compression problem. We might want\nthe mercury to flow down one channel and the air to\nflow up the other, but mercury will simply follow the\nlaws of physics.\n\nThe text also indicates a single channel: \n\"There is a channel in the spine of her blade, and in\nit runs a river of hydragyrum\" (Shadow, XIV).\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack" } ] }, { "message_id": "<2059.67.142.130.42.1215041988.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-07-02T23:39:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<277038.16557.qm@web83705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Put a one way valve on one side.....\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gwern has a clever suggestion about the mercury\nchannel in Terminus Est:\n\n \"Well, why do we need a vacuum at all,\n when we could just have air in it like normal and\navoid displacement\n problems by making our channel a circular tube.\"\n\nThis is a good idea, but I don't think it would work.\n When you raise the sword, the mercury would pool at\nthe bottom in both channels. Then on the downstroke,\nthe mercury would flow down both channels, resulting\nin the same air compression problem. We might want\nthe mercury to flow down one channel and the air to\nflow up the other, but mercury will simply follow the\nlaws of physics.\n\nThe text also indicates a single channel:\n\"There is a channel in the spine of her blade, and in\nit runs a river of hydragyrum\" (Shadow, XIV).\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<486C1B24.1050508@hyraxes.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Lebling", "address": "dlebling at hyraxes.com" }, "date": "2008-07-03T00:19:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<2059.67.142.130.42.1215041988.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm trying to remember if there is any evidence that Terminus Est is \nactually particularly strong. Severian mostly uses it to cut heads off, \nnot duel Excalibur and King Arthur, after all. In the one big SF fight \nhe gets in with it (i.e, with Baldanders), the sword is destroyed. But \nperhaps my memory fails me.\n\nIn any case, one of the continuing tropes of BotNS is that something \nthat appears medieval and mundane (\"ships,\" \"statues\") are actually \nexamples of advanced technology (\"starships,\" \"robots\").\n\n-- Dave Lebling, aka vizcacha" } ] }, { "message_id": "<13104.198.1215045428.squirrel@www.doubtfulpalace.com>", "from": { "name": "Tim Walters", "address": "walters at doubtfulpalace.com" }, "date": "2008-07-03T00:37:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<2059.67.142.130.42.1215041988.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " When you raise the sword, the mercury would pool at\nthe bottom in both channels. Then on the downstroke,\nthe mercury would flow down both channels, resulting\nin the same air compression problem." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm no physicist, but wouldn't this happen only if the mercury were in\nperfect equilibrium on both sides? Otherwise the downward pressure on the\nside with more mercury would push the air around, and the rest of the\nmercury up, I think." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<9f1507fc0807021738l7a682458tfbcea5e6371bceca@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Kerry Benton", "address": "k.benton at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-03T00:38:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<2059.67.142.130.42.1215041988.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "not sure that'd do it.\n\nif you put a valve at tip and tang, facing the same direction, they're\ndisconnected, effectively... neither air nor mercury can flow. if you\nonly use one valve, then at some point the mercury level equalizes,\nand you're back to square one.\n\nI still think a vacuum is the way to go, honestly. I'm not certain it\ncould be done with technology present now. Not to even deal with the\nissue of maintaining a decent vacuum -- which is hard... damn near\neverything is porous to some degree, and a perfect seal is not\nhappening. -- I think you might compromise the function of the blade,\nhaving to make it extra thick at the center. I don't know... how\nthick can a blade be at the center and still cut through a neck?\nProbably pretty thick, given how wide the blade is as well... this\nisn't a katana, after all.\n\nAnyhow, i see nothing fundamentally impossible about it...\n\n-k" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 7:39 PM, wrote:\nPut a one way valve on one side.....\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Gwern has a clever suggestion about the mercury\nchannel in Terminus Est:\n\n \"Well, why do we need a vacuum at all,\n when we could just have air in it like normal and\navoid displacement\n problems by making our channel a circular tube.\"\n\nThis is a good idea, but I don't think it would work.\n When you raise the sword, the mercury would pool at\nthe bottom in both channels. Then on the downstroke,\nthe mercury would flow down both channels, resulting\nin the same air compression problem. We might want\nthe mercury to flow down one channel and the air to\nflow up the other, but mercury will simply follow the\nlaws of physics.\n\nThe text also indicates a single channel:\n\"There is a channel in the spine of her blade, and in\nit runs a river of hydragyrum\" (Shadow, XIV).\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<486C52FA.3040906@oreb.net>", "from": { "name": "Gary", "address": "stuff at oreb.net" }, "date": "2008-07-03T04:18:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<20080702221733.GA13533@craft>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson wrote:\nLike the mysterious alien artifact used to make mercury thermometers?\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I like the Area 51 thermometer on my deck... I assume the supposed \n\"bluebird\" decoration is actually the depiction of an alien overlord." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gwern Branwen wrote:\nIt has a channel running down the center but is still strong? Simple, it has an I-beam shape and one void is covered up to make a channel.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I really think the channel needs to be along the centre-of-balance - the \ncentre, assuming a symmetrical sword. Otherwise the channel would make \nit much harder to wield, not easier. So instead of an I-beam, use a \ntube... or a square rod if you prefer, with the sides being your \n\"I-beam\" equivalent, and the channel within.\n\nAs others have said, although the circular channel (to skip the vaccuum) \nseems appealing, it can't work as well as a vaccuum. Unless the mercury \nis all on one side (one channel if you will), some of the mercury will \nbe working against the rest... it'll never be perfectly balanced, so the \nmercury will certainly be displaced, but not nearly as efficiently as \nwith a single channel and a vaccuum. But it may work well enough to do \nthe job.\n\nAs Transentient says, Severian may be deceiving us, but I think the way \nhe describe's the sword action requires there to be more to the blade \nthan just his training. He clearly feels this blade is unusual, and \nthough the mechanism may not really be a \"hydragyrum\" channel, but \nsomething is giving an effect akin to this.\n\nClearly it's not _needed_ in a head-lopper, but it's a cool little \nfeature, serving no other purpose than to make the sword more \ninteresting to the reader I think. As one who's never lifted a heavy \nsword, but lifted many other long, heavy things, I can see how it's \neasier to raise without wobbling when the weight is near one's body, and \nhow it has greater angular momentum on the downstroke with weight \nredistributed to the tip. It would take practice to get used to, and \ngain advantage from, the weight shift." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370807030958w6a125323g3e2fa329b8beb3b@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-03T16:58:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<486C52FA.3040906@oreb.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Gary wrote:\nI really think the channel needs to be along the centre-of-balance - the\ncentre, assuming a symmetrical sword." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There is some cause to believe that the sword is not symmetrical:\nit has recognizeable \"male\" and \"female\" sides." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\n\nI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a\nrestaurant and, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand\nIsland Dressing and a bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett" } ] }, { "message_id": "<642C5C2F-50CD-4707-8DA7-E743308F86D4@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-07-03T17:13:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370807030958w6a125323g3e2fa329b8beb3b@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 3, 2008, at 11:58 AM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nOn Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Gary wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I really think the channel needs to be along the centre-of-balance \n- the\ncentre, assuming a symmetrical sword." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There is some cause to believe that the sword is not symmetrical:\nit has recognizeable \"male\" and \"female\" sides." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I always assumed these were actual heads (well, actual worked-metal \nheads) on the quillion....but I don't know if there is textual \njustification for this.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<122518.95734.qm@web83705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "John Smith", "address": "jsmith2627 at att.net" }, "date": "2008-07-03T17:22:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370807030958w6a125323g3e2fa329b8beb3b@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Doesn't the \"man-edge\" and \"women-edge\" distinction\njust tell the executioner which side of the blade to\nuse? And don't you tell the edges apart by the heads\n(which I took to be male and female) on the sword's\nguard?\n\n\"Man-edge and woman-edge could part a hair to within a\nspan of the guard, which was of thick silver with a\ncarven head at either end.\" (Shadow, XIV)\n\nThe blade can still be symmetrical, even if each edge\nhas a separate use.\n\n\nJack" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nOn Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Gary\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I really think the channel needs to be along the\ncentre-of-balance - the\ncentre, assuming a symmetrical sword." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There is some cause to believe that the sword is not\nsymmetrical:\nit has recognizeable \"male\" and \"female\" sides.\n\n-- \nDan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\n\nI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island\ndressing in a\nrestaurant and, with great presence of mind, they\nbrought Thousand\nIsland Dressing and a bottle of chili sauce. -- T.\nPratchett\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<11053.72.171.0.138.1215140920.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-07-04T03:08:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370807030958w6a125323g3e2fa329b8beb3b@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think the asymmetry is limited to the gaurd.\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Gary wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I really think the channel needs to be along the centre-of-balance - the\ncentre, assuming a symmetrical sword." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There is some cause to believe that the sword is not symmetrical:\nit has recognizeable \"male\" and \"female\" sides.\n\n--\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\n\nI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a\nrestaurant and, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand\nIsland Dressing and a bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20080712041946.GC27407@craft>", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-12T04:19:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "<486C52FA.3040906@oreb.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On 2008.07.02 22:18:02 -0600, Gary scribbled 2.0K characters:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Like the mysterious alien artifact used to make mercury thermometers?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I like the Area 51 thermometer on my deck... I assume the supposed\n\"bluebird\" decoration is actually the depiction of an alien overlord.\n\nGwern Branwen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "It has a channel running down the center but is still strong? Simple, it has an I-beam shape and one void is covered up to make a channel." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I really think the channel needs to be along the centre-of-balance - the\ncentre, assuming a symmetrical sword. Otherwise the channel would make\nit much harder to wield, not easier. So instead of an I-beam, use a\ntube... or a square rod if you prefer, with the sides being your\n\"I-beam\" equivalent, and the channel within." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...\n\nWell, it would be balanced - the 'groove' runs up the middle of the blade, which gets you symmetry along one direction, and an I-beam shape has a groove going up both sides, which gets you symmetry along the other dimension, if you follow me." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern\nUndercover burhop World 757 William BECCA Psyops veggie 3M Treasury" } ] } ] }