{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5096", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5096, "subject": "Juturna", "messages": 4, "voices": 3, "first": "2008-07-09T23:09:54+00:00", "last": "2008-07-10T05:12:06+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-09T23:09:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Juturna", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One support for Jeff Wilson's idea that Juturna is Severian's sister could be their shared pale white skin. \nIn my view, another would be their bizarre sexual attraction for each other, since I suspect Severian's \nfamily is so cursed to feel that way about each other.\n\nThis story is full of liars but I tend to believe Juturna when she describes Abaia as her (and her sisters')\n\"father-husband\". If there is any correspondence between the undines and the Corn Maidens of the \nNaviscaput story, we may believe the undines aren't really very loyal to their incestuous father, Abaia and\nmight lean toward Severian and the New Sun.\n\nIf Severian is Juturna's brother, is he to be considered a son of Abaia? I think the most plausible scenario\n within that theory would be for Juturna and her sisters and Severian to all be pinched off versions of Abaia.\n It would explain (for me) why there are 5 coffins in Severian's mausoleum, two opened. The first opened \nwould be Severian 1 (Reechy?) and our Severian the second. The other three go unused.\n\nI think a real hurdle for this theory to overcome could be Idas. She is so tall as a child it implies that undines\nare large by nature, not as a result of being sea-dwelling. If siblings why would Juturna be so big and Severian\n normal sized? Also, if undines were pinched off we would think they could be of any size. But Severian's \nencounters with Juturna and Idas also suggests that undines are extremely large by nature, not subject to choice.\n\n-bsharp\n_________________________________________________________________\nMaking the world a better place one message at a time.\nhttp://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace" } ] }, { "message_id": "<48757FE4.4080701@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-07-10T03:20:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Juturna", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "b sharp wrote:\n\nOne support for Jeff Wilson's idea that Juturna is Severian's sister could be their shared pale white skin. \nIn my view, another would be their bizarre sexual attraction for each other, since I suspect Severian's \nfamily is so cursed to feel that way about each other." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "uncanny attraction between long-lost siblings is fairly common in \nliterature and not unknown in RL" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This story is full of liars but I tend to believe Juturna when she describes Abaia as her (and her sisters')\n\"father-husband\". If there is any correspondence between the undines and the Corn Maidens of the \nNaviscaput story, we may believe the undines aren't really very loyal to their incestuous father, Abaia and\nmight lean toward Severian and the New Sun." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This could be a habit of speaking for an adopted sister. It may also be \nthat Jut and Sev are half-siblings rather than full." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If Severian is Juturna's brother, is he to be considered a son of Abaia?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Unlikely, or he wouldn't be at a disadvantage underwater even the first \ntime." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think a real hurdle for this theory to overcome could be Idas. She is so tall as a child it implies that undines\nare large by nature, not as a result of being sea-dwelling. If siblings why would Juturna be so big and Severian\n normal sized? Also, if undines were pinched off we would think they could be of any size. But Severian's \nencounters with Juturna and Idas also suggests that undines are extremely large by nature, not subject to choice." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's part of the longevity-by-growth theme. Many sea creatures live and \ngrow for an indefinite period; lobsters, for instance, grow about 1 lb a \nyear and have been found up to a couple hundred pounds. Baldanders \nredsiscovered this principle and ended up joining the undines under the \nwater because his weight became prohibitive.\n\nThere is also the property of aquatic life to limit their growth \naccording to the size of the habitat.\n\nSo...Idas live underwater, growing taller than a man by the time she has \nnoticeable breasts, and then is sent onto The Ship. Juturna is larger \nbecause she's been living underwater longer. Merryn, an undine \nchangeling many generations descended from the corn maidens is brought \nup on land and is stunted because of it, but still has the youthful face \nfrom undine longevity." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e9fa5ba0807092210r1b742782r98c473ac431a212d@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Anthony Davis", "address": "skateorlive at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-10T05:10:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Juturna", "in_reply_to": "<48757FE4.4080701@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Forgive me for interrupting:\n\nWho is Juturna?\n\nJolenta keeps popping into my head. All of GW's characters have excellent\nnames and are easy to remember/characterize but this one eludes me. (I just\nread the 5 New Sun books for the first time and I am embarrassed to say I\ncan't remember and I'm not with my books at the moment.)\n\nThanks!\nAnthony (another new BotNS fanatic)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nb sharp wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "One support for Jeff Wilson's idea that Juturna is Severian's sister could\nbe their shared pale white skin. In my view, another would be their bizarre\nsexual attraction for each other, since I suspect Severian's family is so\ncursed to feel that way about each other." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "uncanny attraction between long-lost siblings is fairly common in\nliterature and not unknown in RL\n\n This story is full of liars but I tend to believe Juturna when she\ndescribes Abaia as her (and her sisters')" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\"father-husband\". If there is any correspondence between the undines and\nthe Corn Maidens of the Naviscaput story, we may believe the undines aren't\nreally very loyal to their incestuous father, Abaia and\nmight lean toward Severian and the New Sun." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This could be a habit of speaking for an adopted sister. It may also be\nthat Jut and Sev are half-siblings rather than full.\n\n If Severian is Juturna's brother, is he to be considered a son of Abaia?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Unlikely, or he wouldn't be at a disadvantage underwater even the first\ntime.\n\n I think a real hurdle for this theory to overcome could be Idas. She is\nso tall as a child it implies that undines\nare large by nature, not as a result of being sea-dwelling. If siblings\nwhy would Juturna be so big and Severian\n normal sized? Also, if undines were pinched off we would think they\ncould be of any size. But Severian's encounters with Juturna and Idas also\nsuggests that undines are extremely large by nature, not subject to choice." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's part of the longevity-by-growth theme. Many sea creatures live and\ngrow for an indefinite period; lobsters, for instance, grow about 1 lb a\nyear and have been found up to a couple hundred pounds. Baldanders\nredsiscovered this principle and ended up joining the undines under the\nwater because his weight became prohibitive.\n\nThere is also the property of aquatic life to limit their growth according\nto the size of the habitat.\n\nSo...Idas live underwater, growing taller than a man by the time she has\nnoticeable breasts, and then is sent onto The Ship. Juturna is larger\nbecause she's been living underwater longer. Merryn, an undine changeling\nmany generations descended from the corn maidens is brought up on land and\nis stunted because of it, but still has the youthful face from undine\nlongevity.\n\n\n--\nJeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e9fa5ba0807092212u1a35b77cuc1d40cd55626ecbe@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Anthony Davis", "address": "skateorlive at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-10T05:12:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Juturna", "in_reply_to": "<3e9fa5ba0807092210r1b742782r98c473ac431a212d@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah, I've just realized it. Juturna saved Sev." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Anthony Davis \nwrote:\nForgive me for interrupting:\n\nWho is Juturna?\n\nJolenta keeps popping into my head. All of GW's characters have excellent\nnames and are easy to remember/characterize but this one eludes me. (I just\nread the 5 New Sun books for the first time and I am embarrassed to say I\ncan't remember and I'm not with my books at the moment.)\n\nThanks!\nAnthony (another new BotNS fanatic)\n\n\n\nOn Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "b sharp wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "One support for Jeff Wilson's idea that Juturna is Severian's sister\ncould be their shared pale white skin. In my view, another would be their\nbizarre sexual attraction for each other, since I suspect Severian's family\nis so cursed to feel that way about each other." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "uncanny attraction between long-lost siblings is fairly common in\nliterature and not unknown in RL\n\n This story is full of liars but I tend to believe Juturna when she\ndescribes Abaia as her (and her sisters')" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "\"father-husband\". If there is any correspondence between the undines and\nthe Corn Maidens of the Naviscaput story, we may believe the undines aren't\nreally very loyal to their incestuous father, Abaia and\nmight lean toward Severian and the New Sun." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "This could be a habit of speaking for an adopted sister. It may also be\nthat Jut and Sev are half-siblings rather than full.\n\n If Severian is Juturna's brother, is he to be considered a son of\nAbaia?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Unlikely, or he wouldn't be at a disadvantage underwater even the first\ntime.\n\n I think a real hurdle for this theory to overcome could be Idas. She is\nso tall as a child it implies that undines\nare large by nature, not as a result of being sea-dwelling. If siblings\nwhy would Juturna be so big and Severian\n normal sized? Also, if undines were pinched off we would think they\ncould be of any size. But Severian's encounters with Juturna and Idas also\nsuggests that undines are extremely large by nature, not subject to choice." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "It's part of the longevity-by-growth theme. Many sea creatures live and\ngrow for an indefinite period; lobsters, for instance, grow about 1 lb a\nyear and have been found up to a couple hundred pounds. Baldanders\nredsiscovered this principle and ended up joining the undines under the\nwater because his weight became prohibitive.\n\nThere is also the property of aquatic life to limit their growth according\nto the size of the habitat.\n\nSo...Idas live underwater, growing taller than a man by the time she has\nnoticeable breasts, and then is sent onto The Ship. Juturna is larger\nbecause she's been living underwater longer. Merryn, an undine changeling\nmany generations descended from the corn maidens is brought up on land and\nis stunted because of it, but still has the youthful face from undine\nlongevity.\n\n\n--\nJeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }