A Good Society

The Urth list — 7 messages, 4 voices, 11 Jul 2008
https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5101

John Smith11 Jul 2008, 15:17
Can any one think of a Wolfe novel or story in which he portrays a good society? When I re-read The Fifth Head of Cerberus, I realized that on the first reading I had missed how brutal and nasty the planet of Sainte. Croix is. Urth and the Whorl are also terrible places. Stories like The Death of Dr. Island have a cruel or indifferent society in the background. Wolfe doesn't seem to write about utopias. But does he ever show even a decent world? Jack Best wishes, Jack
Paul B11 Jul 2008, 16:15

↳ in reply to John Smith

Yeah, and the bad society often goes hand in hand with secularism (or wrongheaded spirituality). Long Sun is of course the most obvious example of this, but I haven't read him describe a spiritual society either, to date. Presumably because life there would be so good it'd be dull writing. Paul
18 quoted lines
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:17 AM, John Smith <jsmith2627 at att.net> wrote: Can any one think of a Wolfe novel or story in which he portrays a good society? When I re-read The Fifth Head of Cerberus, I realized that on the first reading I had missed how brutal and nasty the planet of Sainte. Croix is. Urth and the Whorl are also terrible places. Stories like The Death of Dr. Island have a cruel or indifferent society in the background. Wolfe doesn't seem to write about utopias. But does he ever show even a decent world? Jack Best wishes, Jack _______________________________________________
Jeff Wilson11 Jul 2008, 17:23

↳ in reply to John Smith

13 quoted lines
John Smith wrote: Can any one think of a Wolfe novel or story in which he portrays a good society? When I re-read The Fifth Head of Cerberus, I realized that on the first reading I had missed how brutal and nasty the planet of Sainte. Croix is. Urth and the Whorl are also terrible places. Stories like The Death of Dr. Island have a cruel or indifferent society in the background. Wolfe doesn't seem to write about utopias. But does he ever show even a decent world?
The Goddess' world in There Are Doors is a pretty tranquil liberal democracy similar to 1950's Britain - She reigns with the lightest of hands and suffers Her people to govern themselves as long as Her worship and personal property are respected.
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson >
Lane Haygood11 Jul 2008, 17:32

↳ in reply to Jeff Wilson

Given the strong Gnostic vibe I get from a lot of Wolfe's work (not that I think he's a gnostic, mind you, but I think he mines the theology for plot points), the idea that the material world is flawed and evil isn't so strange. Lane
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On Jul 11, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote: John Smith wrote:
Can any one think of a Wolfe novel or story in which he portrays a good society? When I re-read The Fifth Head of Cerberus, I realized that on the first reading I had missed how brutal and nasty the planet of Sainte. Croix is. Urth and the Whorl are also terrible places. Stories like The Death of Dr. Island have a cruel or indifferent society in the background. Wolfe doesn't seem to write about utopias. But does he ever show even a decent world?
The Goddess' world in There Are Doors is a pretty tranquil liberal democracy similar to 1950's Britain - She reigns with the lightest of hands and suffers Her people to govern themselves as long as Her worship and personal property are respected. -- Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson > _______________________________________________
Jeff Wilson11 Jul 2008, 18:39

↳ in reply to Lane Haygood

2 quoted lines
Lane Haygood wrote: Given the strong Gnostic vibe I get from a lot of Wolfe's work (not that I think he's a gnostic, mind you, but I think he mines the theology for plot points), the idea that the material world is flawed and evil isn't so strange.
His interviews affirm this; he says we are lucky to live in a Christian society cos the rest of the world (like Turkey) is a depraved hellhole where people kill kittens for fun.
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson >
Paul B11 Jul 2008, 19:21

↳ in reply to Jeff Wilson

Hooo boy, really? What interview was this? Well, Wolfe is getting old, I suppose I can grant him moral exception (har) for cantankerous outbursts. Paul
8 quoted lines · 1–2 deep
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote: Lane Haygood wrote:
Given the strong Gnostic vibe I get from a lot of Wolfe's work (not that I think he's a gnostic, mind you, but I think he mines the theology for plot points), the idea that the material world is flawed and evil isn't so strange.
His interviews affirm this; he says we are lucky to live in a Christian society cos the rest of the world (like Turkey) is a depraved hellhole where people kill kittens for fun. -- Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson <http://www.io.com/%7Ejwilson> > _______________________________________________
Jeff Wilson11 Jul 2008, 19:37

↳ in reply to Paul B

3 quoted lines
Paul B wrote: Hooo boy, really? What interview was this? Well, Wolfe is getting old, I suppose I can grant him moral exception (har) for cantankerous outbursts.
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2tmhh/gwjbj3.html I beg your pardon, it is James B. Jordan who actually mentions the part about the kittens, but about 8-10 answers down the page is where Wolfe talks about other cruelties.
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson >

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