{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5106", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5106, "subject": "Juturna's Time Direction", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2008-07-16T18:42:56+00:00", "last": "2008-07-17T21:35:10+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<20080716184256.3088.qmail@server281.com>", "from": { "name": "Brian", "address": "brian at studiobl.com" }, "date": "2008-07-16T18:42:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Juturna's Time Direction", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "(apologies if this appears twice)\n\nIn UOTNS, Juturna sticks her head and arm into the throne room.\nSeverian asks her if she remembers saving him. She says she does not,\nthat it has not happened yet, but that she will (save him, presumably)\nsince he has spoken. This suggests that Juturna is running backwards\nthrough time similarly to Ossipago, Famulimus and Tobedwego (can't\nremember that last name.)\n\nSeverian thinks Juturna is dying, crushed beneath her vast weight, but\nwhen the throne room is flooded, she gives a cry of triumph. Presumably,\nthe flooding may wash her into deep enough water that she lives.\n\nSo, it seems like Juturna is moving backwards in time, survives her\nsuicidal entry into the throne room, and saves Severian from drowning.\n\nI hadn't noticed before that Juturna was one of the backward-time\ncharacters. Am I barking up the wrong tree here?\n\n\nAlso, in UOTNS, Idas says she is as human as he, one of the people of\nthe lords of the ocean and underground. If creatures like Erebus, Abaia,\netc. are also underground (which I had never noticed before), they may\nsurvive a flood. They must be smaller than the underwater people, since\nwithout the support of the water, they would be crushed by their own\nweight.\n\nAny other mentions of these underground lords that Idas is talking\nabout?\n\n-Brian" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "b sharp", "address": "bsharporflat at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-07-17T11:47:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Juturna's Time Direction", "in_reply_to": "<20080716184256.3088.qmail@server281.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Brian asks-" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Any other mentions of these underground lords that Idas is talking about?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Erebus might be associated with Mt. Erebus in Antarctica not the ocean. And I \nalways thought the presence Severian disturbed in the mine near Saltus was a \nMegatherian.\n\n-bsharp" } ] }, { "message_id": "<487FBB0E.9020102@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-07-17T21:35:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Juturna's Time Direction", "in_reply_to": "<20080716184256.3088.qmail@server281.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Brian wrote:\n(apologies if this appears twice)\n\nIn UOTNS, Juturna sticks her head and arm into the throne room. \nSeverian asks her if she remembers saving him. She says she does not, \nthat it has not happened yet, but that she will (save him, presumably) \nsince he has spoken. This suggests that Juturna is running backwards \nthrough time similarly to Ossipago, Famulimus and Tobedwego (can't \nremember that last name.)\n \nSeverian thinks Juturna is dying, crushed beneath her vast weight, but \nwhen the throne room is flooded, she gives a cry of triumph. \nPresumably, the flooding may wash her into deep enough water that she \nlives. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "She seems to have several conflicting motivations; at best, I think we \ncan agree she is happy because the struggle is out of her hands for the \ntime being, she can reast, having \"only\" the flood to deal with, which \nwould be relatively easy for a time-traveling water-breather." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So, it seems like Juturna is moving backwards in time, survives her \nsuicidal entry into the throne room, and saves Severian from drowning." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It may not be suicidal; she's bleeding and such, but a being of her size \ncan take a looong time to bleed out." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I hadn't noticed before that Juturna was one of the backward-time \ncharacters. Am I barking up the wrong tree here?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Her dialogue and her ability to point into the 5th dimension indicates \nshe skips around, just like Severian." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, in UOTNS, Idas says she is as human as he, one of the people of \nthe lords of the ocean and underground. If creatures like Erebus, \nAbaia, etc. are also underground (which I had never noticed before), \nthey may survive a flood. They must be smaller than the underwater \npeople, since without the support of the water, they would be crushed by \ntheir own weight." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If mobility can be sacrificed, an organism can be supported by earth and \n rock just as well as by water. Megatherians may also be less than \ncompletely biological, they could be evil versions of _The Ship Who \nSang_ or _The City That Fought_ or even _Zardoz_!\n\nThey may survive a flood without being able to survive The Flood; the \nWhite Fountain produces huge tidal stresses on the Urth, flooding and \nre-flooding the land twice a day for several days with potential flood \nheights peaking in the middle. The land also undergoes lesser tides \nbeing less flexible, but the larger the land feature, the larger the \ntotal tidal force applied; if those add up to a sizeable crack, in comes \nthe flood water!" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] } ] }