Subject: (urth) Juturna's Time Direction

From: Brian <brian at studiobl.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:42:56 +0000

(apologies if this appears twice)

In UOTNS, Juturna   sticks her head and arm into the throne room.
Severian asks her if she   remembers saving him.  She says she does not,
that it has not happened yet, but   that she will (save him, presumably)
since he has spoken.  This suggests that   Juturna is running backwards
through time similarly to Ossipago, Famulimus and   Tobedwego (can't
remember that last name.)

Severian thinks   Juturna is dying, crushed beneath her vast weight, but
when the throne room is   flooded, she gives a cry of triumph.  Presumably,
the flooding may wash her into   deep enough water that she lives.

So, it seems like   Juturna is moving backwards in time, survives her
suicidal entry into the throne   room, and saves Severian from drowning.

I hadn't noticed   before that Juturna was one of the backward-time
characters.  Am I barking up   the wrong tree here?

Also, in UOTNS, Idas   says she is as human as he, one of the people of
the lords of the ocean and   underground.  If creatures like Erebus, Abaia,
etc. are also underground (which   I had never noticed before), they may
survive a flood.  They must be smaller   than the underwater people, since
without the support of the water, they would   be crushed by their own
weight.

Any other mentions   of these underground lords that Idas is talking
about?

-Brian
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From: b sharp <bsharporflat at hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:47:00 +0000

Brian asks-
>Any other mentions   of these underground lords that Idas is talking about?

Erebus might be associated with Mt. Erebus in Antarctica not the ocean. And I 
always thought the presence Severian disturbed in the mine near Saltus was a 
Megatherian.

-bsharp

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From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:35:10 +0000

Brian wrote:
> when the throne room is flooded, she gives a cry of triumph.  
> Presumably, the flooding may wash her into deep enough water that she 
> lives. 

She seems to have several conflicting motivations; at best, I think we 
can agree she is happy because the struggle is out of her hands for the 
time being, she can reast, having "only" the flood to deal with, which 
would be relatively easy for a time-traveling water-breather.

> suicidal entry into the throne room, and saves Severian from drowning.

It may not be suicidal; she's bleeding and such, but a being of her size 
can take a looong time to bleed out.

> characters.  Am I barking up the wrong tree here?

Her dialogue and her ability to point into the 5th dimension indicates 
she skips around, just like Severian.

> the lords of the ocean and underground.  If creatures like Erebus, 
> Abaia, etc. are also underground (which I had never noticed before), 
> they may survive a flood.  They must be smaller than the underwater 
> people, since without the support of the water, they would be crushed by 
> their own weight.

If mobility can be sacrificed, an organism can be supported by earth and 
  rock just as well as by water. Megatherians may also be less than 
completely biological, they could be evil versions of _The Ship Who 
Sang_ or _The City That Fought_ or even _Zardoz_!

They may survive a flood without being able to survive The Flood; the 
White Fountain produces huge tidal stresses on the Urth, flooding and 
re-flooding the land twice a day for several days with potential flood 
heights peaking in the middle. The land also undergoes lesser tides 
being less flexible, but the larger the land feature, the larger the 
total tidal force applied; if those add up to a sizeable crack, in comes 
the flood water!

-- 
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com
< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >