{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5147", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5147, "subject": "second dream team", "messages": 22, "voices": 8, "first": "2008-09-18T00:43:20+00:00", "last": "2008-09-24T01:45:29+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<193285.7408.qm@web58202.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-09-18T00:43:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In response to Pedro - Yes, I have felt since short sun came out that the ghost of pike was a future version of Silk. Oreb appears as a human spirit because he is embued with scylla, babbie appears as human because he is the beast with three horns that horn's spirit flees into.\n\nI met so much resistance to the idea that astral ravel could be time travel but I feel that the presence in the old lady's story is compelling enough for me.\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<943042.90256.qm@web58201.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-09-18T19:58:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<193285.7408.qm@web58202.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "pedro, the exit of horn into babbie is more than riding. He reposes under a huge tree, the vanished gods of the neighbors, and this allows his transference as he was earlier transferred into silk's body. He says goodbye to everyone because he knows he is leaving. read the last ten pages of on blue's water and see where suddenly he turns positive like silk. then look at how babbie reacts when horn's son is in danger on one of the astral visits in rttw. he tries to say huh huh huh and point at himself because he is horn, and he throws the guy down who is violent toward his son.\n\nAlso, the greenhouse of the island pit is important - the trees will hybridize with people, creating the neighbor Horn who makes a deal with Horn, after he is eaten by a tree - the pit is the belly of the tree and the manner in which it recombines with other life - read the first chapter on corn hybrids again.\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-18T22:10:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<943042.90256.qm@web58201.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wow...I guess I missed a few things and have to get back to the books again...\n \n \nPedro\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<518A6F9B32514BBD9865D230BE6FEEBB@GATEWAY>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-19T01:00:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc said:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, the greenhouse of the island pit is important - the trees will hybridize with people, creating the neighbor Horn who makes a deal with Horn, after he is eaten by a tree - the pit is the belly of the tree and the manner in which it recombines with other life - read the first chapter on corn hybrids again." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I say:\nHaving considered your theory for a few years now, I am convinced that the hybidizing conversation does in fact refer to the need for a merging of the Neighbors with the Earthlings in order for the colonies to survive...and Horn, as a Christ-figure, was that merging. But I am certain he was not eaten by the tree. It's not the tree, its the greenbuck.\nhttp://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2004-December/004360.html" } ] }, { "message_id": "<39ed084f0809190820i533de501n852722508a1abe61@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Groves", "address": "matthewalangroves at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-19T15:20:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<943042.90256.qm@web58201.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nread the first chapter on corn hybrids again." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wasn't there an article written by a list member on corn hybridization and\nits significance to Short Sun? Can someone give the link to that? Is Wolfe\ndoing a word play between \"horn\" and \"corn\" (*corno* being Italian for Horn\n-- with similar cognates in many languages)?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<567406.69249.qm@web58206.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-09-19T15:48:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<39ed084f0809190820i533de501n852722508a1abe61@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is probably my article, which M. Wynn was kind enough to host all these years.\n\nhttp://www.urth.org/whorlmap/chras-writers/marc-aramini1.htm\n\nalso, cornsilk is a common phrase which makes the italian near cognate interesting.\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<9c6b022b0809190905l24c7ecf3g6221e0d6322f8c25@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Ranjit Bhatnagar", "address": "ranjit at moonmilk.com" }, "date": "2008-09-19T16:05:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<567406.69249.qm@web58206.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not really all that relevant, but it occurs to me that Corn would be a\ngender-ambiguous name in Viron.\n\n-ranjit" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nThis is probably my article, which M. Wynn was kind enough to host all these years.\n\nhttp://www.urth.org/whorlmap/chras-writers/marc-aramini1.htm\n\nalso, cornsilk is a common phrase which makes the italian near cognate interesting.\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<48D78A73.9010700@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-09-22T12:07:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<567406.69249.qm@web58206.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc,\n\nYour article is fascinating and I agree with nearly all of it except for \nthe \"Urth is Green\" which seems to me a stretch too far. (I know that \nGene Wolfe once said this, but I believe it was an engineering joke \nabout ground wires).\n\nThose who don't accept this part of the theory need an alternate \nexplanation for the extreme compatibility of Neighbors/inhumi/Blue life \nwith humans. They are blood-eating and soul-copying compatible (inhumi), \n\"change-blood\" compatible (shearbears), and \"hybrid\" compatible (Horn as \na Neighbor-man, whatever that process entails).\n\nBlue or Green being Urth is only one possible explanation. Here are some \nothers:\n\n1) Settlement long ago by human colonists using FTL travel. Typhon might \nor might not have known of this, perhaps intending an invasion rather \nthan a fresh colony.\n2) Time-travel, such that the Neighbors derive from the present Whorl \ncolonists.\n3) Parallel evolution. The doubled-limbed character of the life forms \ndoes suggest they are different. Hybridization that doubles genes \nwouldn't automatically double limbs." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This is probably my article, which M. Wynn was kind enough to host all these years.\n\nhttp://www.urth.org/whorlmap/chras-writers/marc-aramini1.htm\n\nalso, cornsilk is a common phrase which makes the italian near cognate interesting.\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-22T13:49:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<48D78A73.9010700@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Regarding point 3) we have to take into account that Wolfe's stories are not strictly hard sci-fi plausible in many points. You are correct that doubling-genes doesn't mean doubling limbs, not to mention that we are talking about completely diferent biochemistries and biologies and I pretty much doubt it would be so easy to cross two or more alien species so \"simply\". The same can be said of the blood-drinking inhumi, which assumes that alien blood can be drank with no problems, when veins and blood as we know it is only common to the animal kingdom on Earth (which makes up such a minor percentage of the total number of species). So some liberties have to be taken into account. I would consider Wolfe's books more like Science-Fantasy — la Flash Gordon than anything else, albeit quite more deep than those and at a completely diferent level.\n \n \nPedro\n \n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370809220858g35be4908u69c2aeed82bbd85f@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-22T15:58:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<48D78A73.9010700@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:07 AM, Dave Tallman wrote:\n\nBlue or Green being Urth is only one possible explanation. Here are some\nothers:\n\n1) Settlement long ago by human colonists using FTL travel. Typhon might or\nmight not have known of this, perhaps intending an invasion rather than a\nfresh colony.\n2) Time-travel, such that the Neighbors derive from the present Whorl\ncolonists.\n3) Parallel evolution. The doubled-limbed character of the life forms does\nsuggest they are different. Hybridization that doubles genes wouldn't\nautomatically double limbs." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "4) In a universe with a Creator, where evolution is guided by the Creator's\nwill, all\nlife on all worlds may be compatible in this sense." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\n\nI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a restaurant\nand, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand Island Dressing and\na bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-22T16:01:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370809220858g35be4908u69c2aeed82bbd85f@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If they're not even compatible on Earth (Urth) why would they be among alien worlds?\n \nPedro\n\n\n\n\n4) In a universe with a Creator, where evolution is guided by the Creator's will, all life on all worlds may be compatible in this sense.-- Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant-----http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyerhttp://www.danehyoakes.comI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a restaurant and, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand Island Dressing and a bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett" } ] }, { "message_id": "<12764.72.171.0.146.1222110327.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-09-22T19:05:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370809220858g35be4908u69c2aeed82bbd85f@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "4) In a universe with a Creator, where evolution is guided by the\nCreator's will, all life on all worlds may be compatible in this sense." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "All life here isn't.\n\nIt may be that there are a limited number of possibilities: I don't see\nhow this makes it necessary for there to be a Creator.\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370809221215ted5e2car9b36880a39b381c@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-22T19:15:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<12764.72.171.0.146.1222110327.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ummm. I'm moving in the reverse direction: we know that the Briahverse\n*does* have a Creator; given that, it does not seem unreasonable for Him\nto arrange for life to be compatible _in the sense we were talking about_." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:05 PM, wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "4) In a universe with a Creator, where evolution is guided by the\nCreator's will, all life on all worlds may be compatible in this sense." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "All life here isn't.\n\nIt may be that there are a limited number of possibilities: I don't see\nhow this makes it necessary for there to be a Creator.\n\n\n\n.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<13048.72.171.0.143.1222115010.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-09-22T20:23:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370809221215ted5e2car9b36880a39b381c@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So you are arguing that all life that is native to Urth is compatible _in\nthe sense that we are talking about_?\n\nFor instance, mollusks and vertebrates, here in this world, both have\nblood. The blood of vertebrates is based upon iron: the blood of mollusks\nis based upon copper. Are you saying that it is different on Urth, then?\nThat the two kingdoms use the same kind of blood?\n\nIf I understand you correctly, you are arguing that *this* World here does\nnot have a creator.\n\n\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Ummm. I'm moving in the reverse direction: we know that the Briahverse\n*does* have a Creator; given that, it does not seem unreasonable for Him\nto arrange for life to be compatible _in the sense we were talking about_.\n\nOn Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:05 PM, wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "4) In a universe with a Creator, where evolution is guided by the\nCreator's will, all life on all worlds may be compatible in this\nsense." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "All life here isn't.\n\nIt may be that there are a limited number of possibilities: I don't see\nhow this makes it necessary for there to be a Creator.\n\n\n\n.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370809221346s707ba387r7cc76c5f782f03f3@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-22T20:46:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<13048.72.171.0.143.1222115010.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 1:23 PM, wrote:\nSo you are arguing that all life that is native to Urth is compatible _in\nthe sense that we are talking about_?\n\nFor instance, mollusks and vertebrates, here in this world, both have\nblood. The blood of vertebrates is based upon iron: the blood of mollusks\nis based upon copper. Are you saying that it is different on Urth, then?\nThat the two kingdoms use the same kind of blood?\n\nIf I understand you correctly, you are arguing that *this* World here does\nnot have a creator." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That would be a very odd thing for me, as an adult convert to\nCatholicism, to argue!\n\nI will point out, to begin with, that at least some of those copper-blooded\nmollusks are edible by iron-blooded humans. I don't particularly care for\nthem myself, but there it is. We couldn't accept a blood transfusion from\na lobster, but then I suspect it would be touch-and-go (at best) with blood\nfrom a chimp.\n\nI am not suggesting that the Briahverse's Creator made all life of\ninterchangeable parts. Rather, I am suggesting that He made it\nsufficiently \"compatible\" that life from one world can eat at least\nsome of the life from another.\n\nThus, for example, the Alzabo..." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\n\nI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a restaurant\nand, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand Island Dressing and\na bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-22T20:53:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370809221346s707ba387r7cc76c5f782f03f3@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think it's the eating part that is the problem (it could or could not be a problem, depending on what form of life are we talking about). It's the mix n' go genetics. Ain't happening and there is no credibility whatsoever of creating hybrids like in the books.\n \nBut again, Wolfe's books are not stric science anyway. It's the ideas (and lovely they are) that count here.\n \nBy the way, I love moluscs.\n \nPedro\n\n\n\nDate: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:46:42 -0700From: danldo at gmail.comTo: urth at lists.urth.netSubject: Re: (urth) second dream team\nOn Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 1:23 PM, wrote:\n\nSo you are arguing that all life that is native to Urth is compatible _inthe sense that we are talking about_?For instance, mollusks and vertebrates, here in this world, both haveblood. The blood of vertebrates is based upon iron: the blood of mollusksis based upon copper. Are you saying that it is different on Urth, then?That the two kingdoms use the same kind of blood?If I understand you correctly, you are arguing that *this* World here doesnot have a creator.That would be a very odd thing for me, as an adult convert to Catholicism, to argue!I will point out, to begin with, that at least some of those copper-blooded mollusks are edible by iron-blooded humans. I don't particularly care forthem myself, but there it is. We couldn't accept a blood transfusion froma lobster, but then I suspect it would be touch-and-go (at best) with bloodfrom a chimp.I am not suggesting that the Briahverse's Creator made all life ofinterchangeable parts. Rather, I am suggesting that He made itsufficiently \"compatible\" that life from one world can eat at leastsome of the life from another.Thus, for example, the Alzabo...-- Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant-----http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyerhttp://www.danehyoakes.comI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a restaurant and, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand Island Dressing and a bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett" } ] }, { "message_id": "<8148.67.142.130.46.1222121409.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-09-22T22:10:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't think it's the eating part that is the problem (it could or could\nnot be a problem, depending on what form of life are we talking about).\nIt's the mix n' go genetics. Ain't happening and there is no credibility\nwhatsoever of creating hybrids like in the books." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is what I think also." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But again, Wolfe's books are not stric science anyway. It's the ideas (and\nlovely they are) that count here." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "By the way, I love moluscs." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Me too. But I wouldn't want a blood transfusion from one.\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "<404170.68556.qm@web58201.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-09-22T23:04:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<8148.67.142.130.46.1222121409.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It seems to me that the special genetic nature of the possibly artificially created vanished gods is that they can eat and reassemble the genetic material of their victims as a sort of template like the alzabo. rather makes their children waste products, but that is perhaps not pertinent. I read the story as one in which a sentience arose somehow in this vegetative substrate and was contaminated and overthrown by the liana parasites, leeching the sentience from their host, as well as the ability to transmute themselves into a likeness of their food. Remember that at one point silk reflects that "we" are the vanished people.\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-22T23:14:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<404170.68556.qm@web58201.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That can surely be Wolfe's intention. All I say is that it is not real science and the problem only exists when people want to justify it using real world biochemistry. Wolfe is basically using some biological rules but not really limiting it to the realm of plausibility. Not that it takes any value from Wolfe's books at all, mind you. As I said, his books are more like Flash Gordon on intelectual steroids.\n \n\"Remember that at one point silk reflects that "we" are the vanished people.\"\n \nDon't remember that. Can you quote?\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<188F456456A94F51931AE82BC18A94E2@GATEWAY>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-23T01:52:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Pedro said:\n\"That can surely be Wolfe's intention. All I say is that it is not real science and the problem only exists when people want to justify it using real world biochemistry. Wolfe is basically using some biological rules but not really limiting it to the realm of plausibility. Not that it takes any value from Wolfe's books at all, mind you. As I said, his books are more like Flash Gordon on intelectual steroids.\"\n\n\nI say:\nOnce when people argued that the giant god that the Raja spoke to in RttW was not biologically possible, Wolfe responded that that only meant that the god was not constructed the same way as we are. He said he was impatient with arguments about what is and is not possible in biology.\n\nJ" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-23T10:11:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<188F456456A94F51931AE82BC18A94E2@GATEWAY>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Godlings are beyings sent by Mainframe. They are probably geneticly engineered artificial creatures used specifically for the needs of mainframe. It's not the same thing as natural alien races that mix half the genetic information from other alien beyings as if it was a Lego game. Heck, it wouldn't be possible even among diferent species on the same planet that have extremely similar genetics. Genetics simply don't work that way. But again, I don't see a reason to try to justify it at all. It's a neat idea that works very well in the books and since I don't read them as sci-fi in a stric sense it's fine with me. \n \nPedro \n\n\n\nFrom: crushtv at gmail.comTo: urth at lists.urth.netDate: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:52:48 -0500Subject: Re: (urth) second dream team\n\n\n\n \nPedro said:\n\"That can surely be Wolfe's intention. All I say is that it is not real science and the problem only exists when people want to justify it using real world biochemistry. Wolfe is basically using some biological rules but not really limiting it to the realm of plausibility. Not that it takes any value from Wolfe's books at all, mind you. As I said, his books are more like Flash Gordon on intelectual steroids.\"\n \nI say:\nOnce when people argued that the giant god that the Raja spoke to in RttW was not biologically possible, Wolfe responded that that only meant that the god was not constructed the same way as we are. He said he was impatient with arguments about what is and is not possible in biology.\n \nJ" } ] }, { "message_id": "<9940DB7718A8419F99C8A84595C638AE@GATEWAY>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-09-24T01:45:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) second dream team", "in_reply_to": "<48D78A73.9010700@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dave Tallman says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Blue or Green being Urth is only one possible explanation." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Unfortunately for people like me who find the Urth/Lune = Blue/Green concept \nappealing, there are three more very glaring alternatives.\n\n1) Wolfe just likes the Blue/Green combination for reasons no one has been \nable to identify (to my knowledge). We see it in The Fifth Head of Cerberus \nand in Pandora By Holly Hollander.\n\n2) This is not the only parallel I've noted between tBotSS and tFHoC, so it \nis worth considering that Blue is St. Croix.\n\n3) Thematically, the reason Blue has multi-limbed monsters is because it is \nanother tip of the hat to Edgar Rice Burroughs. The Short Sun is an homage \nto Rice's Martian stories just as the Long Sun is an omage to the Pellucidar \nstories. So as Don Doggett once pointed out, if the Whorl has returned to \nSol, then Blue is just as (or more) likely to be Verthandi. Remember that \nMars might once have been covered by water, and I suppose one could imagine \nthat it could be again.\n\nJ" } ] } ] }