{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5157",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 5157,
    "subject": "spoilers re: evil guest. Lovecraft-esque theories.",
    "messages": 4,
    "voices": 3,
    "first": "2008-09-27T05:21:35+00:00",
    "last": "2008-09-27T17:25:22+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<1a0930df0809262221o470f22b0xca927976ed0b3236@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Duncan Truter",
        "address": "dtruter at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2008-09-27T05:21:35+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) spoilers re: evil guest. Lovecraft-esque theories.",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Ok, I have a couple of questions to ask. I have read the book once,\nand am reading it again.  I also haven't read everything that everyone\nhas written so forgive me if I repeat anything. I am a major Lovecraft\nfan.\n\ngo here for Lovecraft stories. please read them before you comment on\nwhat I have to say, if you haven't read them already. Lovecraft's\nstuff is now public domain so me posting this is not illegal.\nhttp://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/\n\nHere are my points:\n\n-The watch is from HPL to RC. so that's obviously from Lovecraft to\nRandolph Carter (dream-quest of unknown kadeth, and the two 'silver\nkey' books, the last of which ended with RC on earth in the body of an\nalien lizard, trying and failing to get back into his own body, as far\nas I can remember). How is RC involved with this story? Is he Gideon\nChase? probably not, I think.\n\n-the watch tells G. C which time it is. I take that to mean less the\ntime of day, and more the 'when' e.g. the century. I'd say G.C is\nfairly old.\n\n-the bat people, I'm very very unhappy about them. They're almost\nobviously night-gaunts (creatures of Nyarlathotep, I am fairly sure)\nbut night-gaunts are supposed to be faceless. This doesn't make much\nsense. either Wolfe changed the description of them or he messed up. I\nreally hope it's neither, and they're not Night-Gaunts, but I think\nthey are.\n\n-G.C is olive-skinned, and talks about Egypt at some stage.\nNyarlathotep is from Egypt. Is G.C Nyarlathotep? I suspect not, but\nit's still worth thinking about. Nyarlathotep seems to be involved\n*somehow*. Furthermore, Nyarlathotep is generally one of the scariest\nLovecraft characters because he is actually interested in what humans\ndo, whereas the rest see us as bugs or insects.\n\n-Reis seems to actually be a rather genuine guy, and Chase to be the\nevil one. I think that Chase is the bad guy. yes, they're both bad,\nbut Chase seems to be far worse. Think about it: who is dead in the\nend, and who got EXACTLY what he wants? (sorry to capitalise a word).\nMiskatonic U has a copy of the Necronomicon. Soon after Chase got\ntenure there, he became the ambassador to Woldercan. So he got access\nto a book he needed to read (possibly) then became ambassador, which\nhe asked for in the start as far as I can remember.\n\n-in the end it seems fairly certain to me that she's going to\nWoldercan to get revenge. I think that the night-gaunts are the\ncreatures of chase/Nyarlathotep, and they didn't help her in the end,\nthey abandoned her.\n\n-Apart from the possible Nyarlathotep and the definite Cthulhu, who\nelse from the Mythos is present in this story?\n\n-the voices in Chase's car... Are they from Mi-Go Brain Cases? it\nseems fairly reasonable to me that they are. it also makes Case far\nmore evil than we suspect. (read the whisperer in darkness).\n\n-linking to the previous Q, I immediately thought 'PLUTO!' (Mi-Go home\nplanet, AKA Yuggoth) when Cassie asked if it were possible to go to\nMars in a ... what are they called? hopper I think.\n\nWho are the Man-men (or whatever... animal that turns into a man. It's\nbeen mentioned, so there must be one in the story. Scott the wolf\nmight have been one. remember that Scott the wolf kills Scott the ex,\nin that case, who was the werewolf? (who was phone!!!??? sorry.)\n\nWhy does Cassie have silver bullets?\n\nWhy does Cassie say: 'why do you know my name' when Reis calls her\n(sorry, I forgot): \"queen Cassiopeia of 'something'\"? who IS she?\n\nIt doesn't seem that Reis' subjects are Storm King worshipers to me.\nThey sacrificed Reis to 'call off' Cthulhu, because Reis was the\nmastermind behind the anti-Cthulhu plan, and Cthulhu was attacking.\n\nPlease comment/rip my theories apart/whatever.\n\nDuncan"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<1a0930df0809262231l6896f8a0ne9e30d1e8ce28a80@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Duncan Truter",
        "address": "dtruter at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2008-09-27T05:31:46+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) spoilers re: evil guest. Lovecraft-esque theories.",
      "in_reply_to": "<1a0930df0809262221o470f22b0xca927976ed0b3236@mail.gmail.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "one thing I forgot to mention:\n\nLovecraft seemed to have a major issue with people 'breeding' with\npeople of other races, thus producing 'horrific' offspring. Racist,\nmuch? This is probably what GW was referring to in An Evil Guest when\nhe mentioned this topic regarding Woldercan.\n\nDuncan"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Duncan Truter <dtruter at gmail.com> wrote:\nOk, I have a couple of questions to ask. I have read the book once,\nand am reading it again.  I also haven't read everything that everyone\nhas written so forgive me if I repeat anything. I am a major Lovecraft\nfan.\n\ngo here for Lovecraft stories. please read them before you comment on\nwhat I have to say, if you haven't read them already. Lovecraft's\nstuff is now public domain so me posting this is not illegal.\nhttp://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/\n\nHere are my points:\n\n-The watch is from HPL to RC. so that's obviously from Lovecraft to\nRandolph Carter (dream-quest of unknown kadeth, and the two 'silver\nkey' books, the last of which ended with RC on earth in the body of an\nalien lizard, trying and failing to get back into his own body, as far\nas I can remember). How is RC involved with this story? Is he Gideon\nChase? probably not, I think.\n\n-the watch tells G. C which time it is. I take that to mean less the\ntime of day, and more the 'when' e.g. the century. I'd say G.C is\nfairly old.\n\n-the bat people, I'm very very unhappy about them. They're almost\nobviously night-gaunts (creatures of Nyarlathotep, I am fairly sure)\nbut night-gaunts are supposed to be faceless. This doesn't make much\nsense. either Wolfe changed the description of them or he messed up. I\nreally hope it's neither, and they're not Night-Gaunts, but I think\nthey are.\n\n-G.C is olive-skinned, and talks about Egypt at some stage.\nNyarlathotep is from Egypt. Is G.C Nyarlathotep? I suspect not, but\nit's still worth thinking about. Nyarlathotep seems to be involved\n*somehow*. Furthermore, Nyarlathotep is generally one of the scariest\nLovecraft characters because he is actually interested in what humans\ndo, whereas the rest see us as bugs or insects.\n\n-Reis seems to actually be a rather genuine guy, and Chase to be the\nevil one. I think that Chase is the bad guy. yes, they're both bad,\nbut Chase seems to be far worse. Think about it: who is dead in the\nend, and who got EXACTLY what he wants? (sorry to capitalise a word).\nMiskatonic U has a copy of the Necronomicon. Soon after Chase got\ntenure there, he became the ambassador to Woldercan. So he got access\nto a book he needed to read (possibly) then became ambassador, which\nhe asked for in the start as far as I can remember.\n\n-in the end it seems fairly certain to me that she's going to\nWoldercan to get revenge. I think that the night-gaunts are the\ncreatures of chase/Nyarlathotep, and they didn't help her in the end,\nthey abandoned her.\n\n-Apart from the possible Nyarlathotep and the definite Cthulhu, who\nelse from the Mythos is present in this story?\n\n-the voices in Chase's car... Are they from Mi-Go Brain Cases? it\nseems fairly reasonable to me that they are. it also makes Case far\nmore evil than we suspect. (read the whisperer in darkness).\n\n-linking to the previous Q, I immediately thought 'PLUTO!' (Mi-Go home\nplanet, AKA Yuggoth) when Cassie asked if it were possible to go to\nMars in a ... what are they called? hopper I think.\n\nWho are the Man-men (or whatever... animal that turns into a man. It's\nbeen mentioned, so there must be one in the story. Scott the wolf\nmight have been one. remember that Scott the wolf kills Scott the ex,\nin that case, who was the werewolf? (who was phone!!!??? sorry.)\n\nWhy does Cassie have silver bullets?\n\nWhy does Cassie say: 'why do you know my name' when Reis calls her\n(sorry, I forgot): \"queen Cassiopeia of 'something'\"? who IS she?\n\nIt doesn't seem that Reis' subjects are Storm King worshipers to me.\nThey sacrificed Reis to 'call off' Cthulhu, because Reis was the\nmastermind behind the anti-Cthulhu plan, and Cthulhu was attacking.\n\nPlease comment/rip my theories apart/whatever.\n\nDuncan"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<81c420fa0809270928q4e805b89i659856b50a3d4eab@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Greg Bates",
        "address": "tedkennedyrolls at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2008-09-27T16:28:12+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) spoilers re: evil guest. Lovecraft-esque theories.",
      "in_reply_to": "<1a0930df0809262231l6896f8a0ne9e30d1e8ce28a80@mail.gmail.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I thought the voices were a kind of pun, once I thought about them. They're\nwhisperers, in darkness. Ho ho ho."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Duncan Truter <dtruter at gmail.com> wrote:\none thing I forgot to mention:\n\nLovecraft seemed to have a major issue with people 'breeding' with\npeople of other races, thus producing 'horrific' offspring. Racist,\nmuch? This is probably what GW was referring to in An Evil Guest when\nhe mentioned this topic regarding Woldercan.\n\nDuncan\n\nOn Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Duncan Truter <dtruter at gmail.com> wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Ok, I have a couple of questions to ask. I have read the book once,\nand am reading it again.  I also haven't read everything that everyone\nhas written so forgive me if I repeat anything. I am a major Lovecraft\nfan.\n\ngo here for Lovecraft stories. please read them before you comment on\nwhat I have to say, if you haven't read them already. Lovecraft's\nstuff is now public domain so me posting this is not illegal.\nhttp://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/\n\nHere are my points:\n\n-The watch is from HPL to RC. so that's obviously from Lovecraft to\nRandolph Carter (dream-quest of unknown kadeth, and the two 'silver\nkey' books, the last of which ended with RC on earth in the body of an\nalien lizard, trying and failing to get back into his own body, as far\nas I can remember). How is RC involved with this story? Is he Gideon\nChase? probably not, I think.\n\n-the watch tells G. C which time it is. I take that to mean less the\ntime of day, and more the 'when' e.g. the century. I'd say G.C is\nfairly old.\n\n-the bat people, I'm very very unhappy about them. They're almost\nobviously night-gaunts (creatures of Nyarlathotep, I am fairly sure)\nbut night-gaunts are supposed to be faceless. This doesn't make much\nsense. either Wolfe changed the description of them or he messed up. I\nreally hope it's neither, and they're not Night-Gaunts, but I think\nthey are.\n\n-G.C is olive-skinned, and talks about Egypt at some stage.\nNyarlathotep is from Egypt. Is G.C Nyarlathotep? I suspect not, but\nit's still worth thinking about. Nyarlathotep seems to be involved\n*somehow*. Furthermore, Nyarlathotep is generally one of the scariest\nLovecraft characters because he is actually interested in what humans\ndo, whereas the rest see us as bugs or insects.\n\n-Reis seems to actually be a rather genuine guy, and Chase to be the\nevil one. I think that Chase is the bad guy. yes, they're both bad,\nbut Chase seems to be far worse. Think about it: who is dead in the\nend, and who got EXACTLY what he wants? (sorry to capitalise a word).\nMiskatonic U has a copy of the Necronomicon. Soon after Chase got\ntenure there, he became the ambassador to Woldercan. So he got access\nto a book he needed to read (possibly) then became ambassador, which\nhe asked for in the start as far as I can remember.\n\n-in the end it seems fairly certain to me that she's going to\nWoldercan to get revenge. I think that the night-gaunts are the\ncreatures of chase/Nyarlathotep, and they didn't help her in the end,\nthey abandoned her.\n\n-Apart from the possible Nyarlathotep and the definite Cthulhu, who\nelse from the Mythos is present in this story?\n\n-the voices in Chase's car... Are they from Mi-Go Brain Cases? it\nseems fairly reasonable to me that they are. it also makes Case far\nmore evil than we suspect. (read the whisperer in darkness).\n\n-linking to the previous Q, I immediately thought 'PLUTO!' (Mi-Go home\nplanet, AKA Yuggoth) when Cassie asked if it were possible to go to\nMars in a ... what are they called? hopper I think.\n\nWho are the Man-men (or whatever... animal that turns into a man. It's\nbeen mentioned, so there must be one in the story. Scott the wolf\nmight have been one. remember that Scott the wolf kills Scott the ex,\nin that case, who was the werewolf? (who was phone!!!??? sorry.)\n\nWhy does Cassie have silver bullets?\n\nWhy does Cassie say: 'why do you know my name' when Reis calls her\n(sorry, I forgot): \"queen Cassiopeia of 'something'\"? who IS she?\n\nIt doesn't seem that Reis' subjects are Storm King worshipers to me.\nThey sacrificed Reis to 'call off' Cthulhu, because Reis was the\nmastermind behind the anti-Cthulhu plan, and Cthulhu was attacking.\n\nPlease comment/rip my theories apart/whatever.\n\nDuncan"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "_______________________________________________"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<44fb53d10809271025l6c8c0db7x4b692d7b5d5ba45e@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Matthew Keeley",
        "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2008-09-27T17:25:22+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) spoilers re: evil guest. Lovecraft-esque theories.",
      "in_reply_to": "<1a0930df0809262221o470f22b0xca927976ed0b3236@mail.gmail.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Duncan Truter <dtruter at gmail.com> wrote:\n\n\n-The watch is from HPL to RC. so that's obviously from Lovecraft to\nRandolph Carter (dream-quest of unknown kadeth, and the two 'silver\nkey' books, the last of which ended with RC on earth in the body of an\nalien lizard, trying and failing to get back into his own body, as far\nas I can remember). How is RC involved with this story? Is he Gideon\nChase? probably not, I think."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Well, \"RC\" could also be \"Robert Chase,\" Gideon's apparent father. But\n\"Randolph Carter\" does also make sense..."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "-Reis seems to actually be a rather genuine guy, and Chase to be the\nevil one. I think that Chase is the bad guy. yes, they're both bad,\nbut Chase seems to be far worse. Think about it: who is dead in the\nend, and who got EXACTLY what he wants? (sorry to capitalise a word).\nMiskatonic U has a copy of the Necronomicon. Soon after Chase got\ntenure there, he became the ambassador to Woldercan. So he got access\nto a book he needed to read (possibly) then became ambassador, which\nhe asked for in the start as far as I can remember."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Chase already has a position at Miskatonic when the book starts - he would\nhave had access to the Necronomicon before he met Cassie.\n\n-Matt"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}