{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5165", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5165, "subject": "Shades of beige", "messages": 14, "voices": 7, "first": "2008-10-06T16:24:03+00:00", "last": "2008-10-08T23:58:13+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<410C7F2E-C485-429C-9EAE-4A9E9DC7B032@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-06T16:24:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Forget food in _Evil Guest_; anyone else notice how many exotic shades \nof off-white through light-brown (or perhaps I should say birch \nthrough caffe-latte) are mentioned? What's up with that? (if this \nhas been discussed before, I'm sorry--I've been trying NOT to read \n_EG_ posts until I got a chance to read the book, which I now have)\n\nSPOILER below:\n\nAnd is there agreement on what sort of beast-woman Cassie *is*? I \nlike \"Robin\" because of the red plumage, the \"the alien food isn't \n*really* worms\", and of course the execrable Batman-cub joke. I \ndon't think it's the right guess, though.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10810060933ieee3264g2752aa1514dc156a@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-06T16:33:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": "<410C7F2E-C485-429C-9EAE-4A9E9DC7B032@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:\nForget food in _Evil Guest_; anyone else notice how many exotic shades of\noff-white through light-brown (or perhaps I should say birch through\ncaffe-latte) are mentioned? What's up with that? (if this has been\ndiscussed before, I'm sorry--I've been trying NOT to read _EG_ posts until I\ngot a chance to read the book, which I now have)\n\nSPOILER below:\n\nAnd is there agreement on what sort of beast-woman Cassie *is*? I like\n\"Robin\" because of the red plumage, the \"the alien food isn't *really*\nworms\", and of course the execrable Batman-cub joke. I don't think it's\nthe right guess, though.\n\nAdam" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't believe the color stuff has been discussed yet.\n\nRe: Batman and Robin - I'm a Batman fan so I'm inclined to see references to\nhim that might not be there (i.e. there actually is a character named\nManbat). Then again, I wouldn't be terribly shocked if Wolfe read Batman\ncomics growing up, and perhaps he even reads a few now, especially as his\nfriend Neil Gaiman actually has a Batman story coming out in a few months.\n\nhttp://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/07/after-clarion.html\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<10012.67.142.130.47.1223315619.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-10-06T17:53:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) And What About...", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10810060933ieee3264g2752aa1514dc156a@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Matt writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I wouldn't be terribly shocked if Wolfe read Batman\ncomics growing up, and perhaps he even reads a few now, especially as his\nfriend Neil Gaiman actually has a Batman story coming out in a few months.\n\nhttp://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/07/after-clarion.html" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Wolfe/Gaiman collaboration?\n\nAnd what about the Wolfe/Swanwick collaboration? Are these still happening?\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370810061106n32b5dca8n6325635353d0a20e@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-06T18:06:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) And What About...", "in_reply_to": "<10012.67.142.130.47.1223315619.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The only Wolfe/Gaiman collaboration I know of is \"A Walking Tour of the\nShambles,\" and it happeneda few years back." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM, wrote:\nMatt writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " I wouldn't be terribly shocked if Wolfe read Batman\ncomics growing up, and perhaps he even reads a few now, especially as his\nfriend Neil Gaiman actually has a Batman story coming out in a few\nmonths.\n\nhttp://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/07/after-clarion.html" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The Wolfe/Gaiman collaboration?\n\nAnd what about the Wolfe/Swanwick collaboration? Are these still happening?\n\n\n.\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10810061146re2bea65n83402c437cd371ac@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-06T18:46:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) And What About...", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370810061106n32b5dca8n6325635353d0a20e@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nThe only Wolfe/Gaiman collaboration I know of is \"A Walking Tour of the\nShambles,\" and it happeneda few years back." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right. The Batman thing is Gaiman only. I can't even imagine what a\nWolfe-and-Gaiman comic book would look like, but I know I'd read it.\n\nOfficial Tour of the Shambles website??:\nhttp://www.preserveusfromthehouseofclocks.com/\n\nBy the way, anyone know if copies are still available.\n\nAs for Wolfe and Swanwick, I've heard of it on and off on this list, but\nI've never heard anything *concrete* about it. We can always dream I guess.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<938441.31393.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2008-10-06T19:23:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) And What About...", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10810061146re2bea65n83402c437cd371ac@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "..and it was great!\n\n???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Mon, 10/6/08, Matthew Keeley wrote:\nFrom: Matthew Keeley \nSubject: Re: (urth) And What About...\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Monday, October 6, 2008, 11:46 AM\n\n\n\nOn Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\n\nThe only Wolfe/Gaiman collaboration I know of is \"A Walking Tour of the\nShambles,\" and it happeneda few years back.\n\n\nRight. The Batman thing is Gaiman only. I can't even imagine what a Wolfe-and-Gaiman comic book would look like, but I know I'd read it.\nOfficial Tour of the Shambles website??:\nhttp://www.preserveusfromthehouseofclocks.com/\nBy the way, anyone know if copies are still available.\nAs for Wolfe and Swanwick, I've heard of it on and off on this list, but I've never heard anything *concrete* about it. We can always dream I guess.\n\n-Matt?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mr Thalassocrat", "address": "thalassocrat08 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-07T03:47:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": "<410C7F2E-C485-429C-9EAE-4A9E9DC7B032@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Adam Thornton wrote:\nForget food in _Evil Guest_; anyone else notice how many exotic shades of\noff-white through light-brown (or perhaps I should say birch through\ncaffe-latte) are mentioned? What's up with that? (if this has been\ndiscussed before, I'm sorry--I've been trying NOT to read _EG_ posts until I\ngot a chance to read the book, which I now have)\n\nSPOILER below:\n\nAnd is there agreement on what sort of beast-woman Cassie *is*? I like\n\"Robin\" because of the red plumage, the \"the alien food isn't *really*\nworms\", and of course the execrable Batman-cub joke. I don't think it's\nthe right guess, though." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "We get an explanation from Gid for at least one character's preferred colour\nstyling: werewolves wear shades of grey.\n\nI don't think Cassie is a beast woman, is she? She's gone up from human, not\nup from beast.\n\nUnless I've missed something, which is more than likely - this is a *damn*\nstrange book.\n\nEg: Almost all of the story is tightly focused on Cassie - we see what she\nsees, and so on. But there are three scenes where the focus is on Gid sans\nCassie: at the start, when he's shot, and when he's spirited away from\nCassie's apartment after being shot. After that: no more Gid-focus. I really\ndon't understand that. If you're going to shift focus to another character\nat some points, why not at others, and why not to others?\n\nA bunch other things. Overall, either there's a lot of hidden stuff going on\nhere (and Wolfe has taken some scary risks that people will just toss the\nbook without caring enough to puzzle it out); or else he's jumped the\nShark-God (except for the beautiful writing in the last third)." } ] }, { "message_id": "<6089163B-484C-41BF-A296-9AAC264A18AB@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-07T04:06:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Oct 6, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Mr Thalassocrat wrote:\nWe get an explanation from Gid for at least one character's \npreferred colour styling: werewolves wear shades of grey." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sure. Which is why all the color focus has to mean something." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I don't think Cassie is a beast woman, is she? She's gone up from \nhuman, not up from beast." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Has she?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Unless I've missed something, which is more than likely - this is a \n*damn* strange book." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Why yes. Yes, it is." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Eg: Almost all of the story is tightly focused on Cassie - we see \nwhat she sees, and so on. But there are three scenes where the focus \nis on Gid sans Cassie: at the start, when he's shot, and when he's \nspirited away from Cassie's apartment after being shot. After that: \nno more Gid-focus. I really don't understand that. If you're going \nto shift focus to another character at some points, why not at \nothers, and why not to others?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And the first scene *makes no sense* as a framing device. Right? I \nmean, *The President Of The United States*? *Really?*" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "A bunch other things. Overall, either there's a lot of hidden stuff \ngoing on here (and Wolfe has taken some scary risks that people \nwill just toss the book without caring enough to puzzle it out); or \nelse he's jumped the Shark-God (except for the beautiful writing in \nthe last third)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I enjoyed this one a lot more than _Pirate Freedom_.\n\nI think there's something to be gained from looking at it as a \nLovecraftian story.\n\nBut I can't make it make sense that way either.\n\nSure, I'll buy Gideon as Nyarlathotep. His appearance is right, his \ncharming ironic disavowal of gods and good and evil....\n\nAnd the Squid God as Cthulhu? Obviously.\n\nBut then....what's Bill Reis?\n\nAnd the bat-things....well, they can't be nightgaunts, because they \nhave faces. So they're byhakee, I guess. Does that make Bill \nHastur? The King In Yellow? Does he wear yellow at some point?\n\nAugh. This will drive me mad. Mad, I tell you. But I put it to you, \ndoctor: how can the man who developed the trans-cranial rectometer be \nmad?!?\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2008-10-07T06:38:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": "<6089163B-484C-41BF-A296-9AAC264A18AB@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But then....what's Bill Reis?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Abdul Reis???? \n\nhttp://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Imprisoned_with_the_Pharaohs \n\n\nhartshorn \n\n \n\nhttp://www.thenightland.co.uk \n\n01273-488272 / 0777-214-9545 " } ] }, { "message_id": "<792276.51397.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2008-10-08T19:33:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm about 3/4 of the way through the book and it is getting a lot better I must say...\n\nAnyone mention chairs yet??? Cassie is always in one (as opposed ti the couch etc...) and they are described quite a bit..\nClue or red herring?\n\ndon't know what to make of this book...\n\n???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Mon, 10/6/08, Andy Robertson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Andy Robertson \nSubject: Re: (urth) Shades of beige\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Monday, October 6, 2008, 11:38 PM\nBut then....what's Bill Reis?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Abdul Reis???? \n\nhttp://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Imprisoned_with_the_Pharaohs \n\n\nhartshorn \n\n \n\nhttp://www.thenightland.co.uk \n\n01273-488272 / 0777-214-9545 " } ] }, { "message_id": "<13315.67.142.130.15.1223499716.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-10-08T21:01:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": "<792276.51397.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I bought it and read it yesterday. It is very interesting, but (as with\nall of Wolfe's books) I am sure that I will not begin to get it until\nseveral readings.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm about 3/4 of the way through the book and it is getting a lot better I\nmust say...\n\nAnyone mention chairs yet??? Cassie is always in one (as opposed ti the\ncouch etc...) and they are described quite a bit..\nClue or red herring?\n\ndon't know what to make of this book...\n\n???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Mon, 10/6/08, Andy Robertson wrote:\nFrom: Andy Robertson \nSubject: Re: (urth) Shades of beige\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Monday, October 6, 2008, 11:38 PM" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But then....what's Bill Reis?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Abdul Reis????\n\nhttp://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Imprisoned_with_the_Pharaohs\n\n\nhartshorn\n\n\n\nhttp://www.thenightland.co.uk\n\n01273-488272 / 0777-214-9545\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mr Thalassocrat", "address": "thalassocrat08 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-08T23:21:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": "<6089163B-484C-41BF-A296-9AAC264A18AB@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:\n\nOn Oct 6, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Mr Thalassocrat wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "We get an explanation from Gid for at least one character's preferred\ncolour styling: werewolves wear shades of grey." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Sure. Which is why all the color focus has to mean something." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One of the people who kidnaps/arrests Margaret wears \"a birch suit with\nthose black stripes\". Another wolf? A hyena? A zebra, perhaps?\n\nScott wears a \"bone-white-and-Chablis seersucker suit\". A white wolf? An\nincontinent polar bear? Anyway, something unpleasant, no doubt. (Gid\nactually says shades of grey or white, for werewolves.)\n\nIf Carrie is a beast-woman (and I still don't see anything to suggest that),\nthen I guess the color preference rule would make her beast-part something\ngreen. Tree frog?\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Red-eyed_Tree_Frog_-_Litoria_chloris_edit1.jpg\nI\nguess maybe not :)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Eg: Almost all of the story is tightly focused on Cassie - we see what\nshe sees, and so on. But there are three scenes where the focus is on Gid\nsans Cassie: at the start, when he's shot, and when he's spirited away from\nCassie's apartment after being shot. After that: no more Gid-focus. I really\ndon't understand that. If you're going to shift focus to another character\nat some points, why not at others, and why not to others?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And the first scene *makes no sense* as a framing device. Right? I mean,\n*The President Of The United States*? *Really?*" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Pick up thre book, skim the first few pages, toss it. Risky! But I guess the\nlittle god&evil dialog must be intended to frame a theme. I do find it quite\ndifficult to unpack Gid's position on this, so I'm not sure how this is\nsupposed to work." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "A bunch other things. Overall, either there's a lot of hidden stuff going\non here (and Wolfe has taken some scary risks that people will just toss\nthe book without caring enough to puzzle it out); or else he's jumped the\nShark-God (except for the beautiful writing in the last third)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I enjoyed this one a lot more than _Pirate Freedom_." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think there's something to be gained from looking at it as a Lovecraftian\nstory." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I hope that isn't something you need to do to make sense of it - I have zero\ninterest in HPL. Which obviously may be why I have probs with the book.\n\nHere's one thing I don't get at all: India calls Gil her \"Hitler\".\n????????????" } ] }, { "message_id": "<999010.94618.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2008-10-08T23:49:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If Carrie is a beast-woman (and I still don't see anything to suggest that)\n\nPage 206\nGideon is explaining how to spot a werewolf \"They're sensitive to odors and insensitive to colors.\"\npage 207\n\"Cassie had received the first covered dish.When she removed the cover the aroma made her mouth water in actual fact.\"\n\nNot like GW to telegraph it...maybe the being insensitive to colors figures in as well...\n\nS\n\n???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Wed, 10/8/08, Mr Thalassocrat wrote:\nFrom: Mr Thalassocrat \nSubject: Re: (urth) Shades of beige\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 4:21 PM\n\n\n\n\nOn Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:\n\n\n\nOn Oct 6, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Mr Thalassocrat wrote:\n\nWe get an explanation from Gid for at least one character's preferred colour styling: werewolves wear shades of grey.\n\n\nSure. ?Which is why all the color focus has to mean something. \n\n\nOne of the people who kidnaps/arrests Margaret wears \"a birch suit with those black stripes\". Another wolf? A hyena? A zebra, perhaps? \n\nScott wears a \"bone-white-and-Chablis seersucker suit\". A white wolf? An incontinent?polar bear? Anyway, something unpleasant, no doubt. (Gid actually says shades of grey or white, for werewolves.)\n\n\nIf Carrie is a beast-woman (and I still don't see anything to suggest that), then I guess the color preference rule would make her beast-part something green. Tree frog? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Red-eyed_Tree_Frog_-_Litoria_chloris_edit1.jpg?I guess maybe not?:) \n\n\n\n\n\nEg: Almost all of the story is tightly focused on Cassie - we see what she sees, and so on. But there are three scenes where the focus is on Gid sans Cassie: at the start, when he's shot, and when he's spirited away from Cassie's apartment after being shot. After that: no more Gid-focus. I really don't understand that. If you're going to shift focus to another character at some points, why not at others, and why not to others?\n\n\nAnd the first scene *makes no sense* as a framing device. “Right” ?I mean, *The President Of The United States*? ?*Really?* \n\n\n\nPick up thre book, skim the first few pages, toss it. Risky! But I guess the little god&evil dialog must be intended to frame a theme. I do find it quite difficult to unpack Gid's position on this, so I'm not sure how this is supposed to work.\n\n\n\n\n\nA bunch other things. Overall, either there's a lot of hidden stuff going on here ?(and Wolfe has taken some scary risks that people will just toss the book without caring enough to puzzle it out); or else he's jumped the Shark-God (except for the beautiful writing in the last third).\n\n\nI enjoyed this one a lot more than _Pirate Freedom_.\n\nI think there's something to be gained from looking at it as a Lovecraftian story.\n\nI hope that isn't something you need to do to make sense of it - I have zero interest in HPL. Which obviously may be why I have probs with the book.\n\nHere's one thing I don't get at all: India calls Gil her \"Hitler\". ????????????" } ] }, { "message_id": "<468233.55446.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2008-10-08T23:58:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fw: Re: Shades of beige", "in_reply_to": "<999010.94618.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Wed, 10/8/08, Stuart Hamm wrote:\nFrom: Stuart Hamm \nSubject: Re: (urth) Shades of beige\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 4:49 PM\n\n\nIf Carrie is a beast-woman (and I still don't see anything to suggest that)\n\nPage 206\nGideon is explaining how to spot a werewolf \"They're sensitive to odors and insensitive to colors.\"\npage 207\n\"Cassie had received the first covered dish.When she removed the cover the aroma made her mouth water in actual fact.\"\n\nNot like GW to telegraph it...maybe the being insensitive to colors figures in as well...\n\nS\n\n???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Wed, 10/8/08, Mr Thalassocrat wrote:\nFrom: Mr Thalassocrat \nSubject: Re: (urth) Shades of beige\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 4:21 PM\n\n\n\n\nOn Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:\n\n\n\nOn Oct 6, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Mr Thalassocrat wrote:\n\nWe get an explanation from Gid for at least one character's preferred colour styling: werewolves wear shades of grey.\n\n\nSure. ?Which is why all the color focus has to mean something. \n\n\nOne of the people who kidnaps/arrests Margaret wears \"a birch suit with those black stripes\". Another wolf? A hyena? A zebra, perhaps? \n\nScott wears a \"bone-white-and-Chablis seersucker suit\". A white wolf? An incontinent?polar bear? Anyway, something unpleasant, no doubt. (Gid actually says shades of grey or white, for werewolves.)\n\n\nIf Carrie is a beast-woman (and I still don't see anything to suggest that), then I guess the color preference rule would make her beast-part something green. Tree frog? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Red-eyed_Tree_Frog_-_Litoria_chloris_edit1.jpg?I guess maybe not?:) \n\n\n\n\n\nEg: Almost all of the story is tightly focused on Cassie - we see what she sees, and so on. But there are three scenes where the focus is on Gid sans Cassie: at the start, when he's shot, and when he's spirited away from Cassie's apartment after being shot. After that: no more Gid-focus. I really don't understand that. If you're going to shift focus to another character at some points, why not at others, and why not to others?\n\n\nAnd the first scene *makes no sense* as a framing device. “Right” ?I mean, *The President Of The United States*? ?*Really?* \n\n\n\nPick up thre book, skim the first few pages, toss it. Risky! But I guess the little god&evil dialog must be intended to frame a theme. I do find it quite difficult to unpack Gid's position on this, so I'm not sure how this is supposed to work.\n\n\n\n\n\nA bunch other things. Overall, either there's a lot of hidden stuff going on here ?(and Wolfe has taken some scary risks that people will just toss the book without caring enough to puzzle it out); or else he's jumped the Shark-God (except for the beautiful writing in the last third).\n\n\nI enjoyed this one a lot more than _Pirate Freedom_.\n\nI think there's something to be gained from looking at it as a Lovecraftian story.\n\nI hope that isn't something you need to do to make sense of it - I have zero interest in HPL. Which obviously may be why I have probs with the book.\n\nHere's one thing I don't get at all: India calls Gil her \"Hitler\". ????????????" } ] } ] }