{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5180", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5180, "subject": "a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe)", "messages": 6, "voices": 5, "first": "2008-10-13T02:37:34+00:00", "last": "2008-10-15T14:53:39+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Thomas Bitterman", "address": "tom at bitterman.net" }, "date": "2008-10-13T02:37:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and Klauser\n(which\nreally needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take on the\ntrip\nto Woldercan. He says, \"Women have monthly needs. You could use rags, and\nour great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not to...\". WTF?\nWho\ntalks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about menstruation\nand\nthe historic ways to deal with it?\n\nNow, Cthulhuiana and spoilers (if I'm lucky). The two major male\nprotagonists have\nmultiple identities (Wallace Rosenquist/William Reis and Gideon Chase/Gil\nCorby)\nbut the names keep the same initials. If someone can have two identities,\nthey\ncan have more. Since it's a Lovecraftian book, let's look there.\n\nThe first one is easy. Gideon Chase is the Great Cthulhu.\n\nThe second one is tougher. I can't be sure, but I'll go in order of\ndescending likelihood.\nI would like to thank my copy of _Encyclopedia Cthulhiana_, which comes in\nhandy\nmore often than you'd think.\n\n1. \"Black Ram with a Thousand Young\". The male aspect of the Outer God\nShub-Niggurath. My favorite for plot purposes.\n\n2. \"Wza-y'ei Rhan-Tegoth\" The first word is the start of the chant that\nsummons\nRhan-Tegoth, a Great Old One who came to Earth. It is said that the\ndestruction of\nRhan-Tegoth would prevent the awakening of the Great Old Ones.\n\n3. \"Watery R'lyeh\". Cthulhu's underwater city.\n\n4. \"Beyond Rigel\". Rigel is a star that is associated with the Elder Gods,\nenemies (more or less) of the Great Old Ones.\n\nI like 1 best because it turns the whole story into infighting between the\nbad guys with Shub-Niggurath getting the U. S. Navy to nuke Cthulhu. Cassie\nis just a pawn in this game and is going to get her just \"reward\" on\nWoldercan\nfrom the Great C himself.\n\nEnamel" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-13T02:55:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Oct 12, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Thomas Bitterman wrote:\nFirst, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and \nKlauser (which\nreally needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take \non the trip\nto Woldercan. He says, \"Women have monthly needs. You could use \nrags, and\nour great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not \nto...\". WTF? Who\ntalks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about \nmenstruation and\nthe historic ways to deal with it?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For some reason, this reminded me of the conversation between Marlowe \nand Sternwood in _The Big Sleep_. You know, \"Orchids remind me too \nmuch of dead men's flesh.\" Also, of course, \"I exist largely on \nsleep, like a newborn spider.\"\n\nI don't know *why* the conversation triggered that memory, but when \nreading Wolfe, often my hunches turn out to be at least sort of \nright. I think there's something to that, and something, perhaps, to \nthe fact that the novel smells like pulp but might be noir.\n\nAs far as Gideon Chase being Great Cthulhu: the dude seems much more \nlike Nyarlathotep to me. But...well, the Haunter In Darkness is the \nonly one of that crowd with much actual interest in humanity \n(admittedly, the interest of a cat with a mouse). But I wonder if \nBill Reis, and the Shark God, and the Volcano God, are mere Gods of \nEarth, while Gideon Chase and the Squid God are something much \nlarger. Of course, if Gideon is driven off-world by the efforts of \nthe U.S. Navy....hmm.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1a0930df0810122020j57f8911fo529f908876ed7c90@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Duncan Truter", "address": "dtruter at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-13T03:20:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just a quick note here. if GC is one of the elder gods, the only one\nit makes sense for him to be is Nyarlathotep. Cthulhu is only awake\nfor brief periods, and never takes other forms as far as I know.\nAlso, I wonder if this is a mythos book or a lovecraft-cthulhu book.\nif it's a lovecraft-cthulhu book then the elder gods aren't involved.\nHas Wolfe given any interviews recently?\n\nDuncan" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Message: 6\nDate: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:55:00 -0500\nFrom: Adam Thornton \nSubject: Re: (urth) a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers\n (maybe)\nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nMessage-ID: \nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"; Format=\"flowed\";\n DelSp=\"yes\"\n\n\nOn Oct 12, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Thomas Bitterman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and\nKlauser (which\nreally needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take\non the trip\nto Woldercan. He says, \"Women have monthly needs. You could use\nrags, and\nour great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not\nto...\". WTF? Who\ntalks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about\nmenstruation and\nthe historic ways to deal with it?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "For some reason, this reminded me of the conversation between Marlowe\nand Sternwood in _The Big Sleep_. You know, \"Orchids remind me too\nmuch of dead men's flesh.\" Also, of course, \"I exist largely on\nsleep, like a newborn spider.\"\n\nI don't know *why* the conversation triggered that memory, but when\nreading Wolfe, often my hunches turn out to be at least sort of\nright. I think there's something to that, and something, perhaps, to\nthe fact that the novel smells like pulp but might be noir.\n\nAs far as Gideon Chase being Great Cthulhu: the dude seems much more\nlike Nyarlathotep to me. But...well, the Haunter In Darkness is the\nonly one of that crowd with much actual interest in humanity\n(admittedly, the interest of a cat with a mouse). But I wonder if\nBill Reis, and the Shark God, and the Volcano God, are mere Gods of\nEarth, while Gideon Chase and the Squid God are something much\nlarger. Of course, if Gideon is driven off-world by the efforts of\nthe U.S. Navy....hmm.\n\nAdam\n-------------- next part --------------\nA non-text attachment was scrubbed...\nName: smime.p7s\nType: application/pkcs7-signature\nSize: 4988 bytes\nDesc: not available\nURL: \n\n------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<81c420fa0810131638w7e0991bn5a9fc44d68e82d4f@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Greg Bates", "address": "tedkennedyrolls at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-13T23:38:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Gideon Chase's father is Robert Chase (I believe.) RC = Randolph Carter?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 10:37 PM, Thomas Bitterman wrote:\nFirst, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and Klauser\n(which\nreally needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take on the\ntrip\nto Woldercan. He says, \"Women have monthly needs. You could use rags, and\nour great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not to...\".\nWTF? Who\ntalks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about menstruation\nand\nthe historic ways to deal with it?\n\nNow, Cthulhuiana and spoilers (if I'm lucky). The two major male\nprotagonists have\nmultiple identities (Wallace Rosenquist/William Reis and Gideon Chase/Gil\nCorby)\nbut the names keep the same initials. If someone can have two identities,\nthey\ncan have more. Since it's a Lovecraftian book, let's look there.\n\nThe first one is easy. Gideon Chase is the Great Cthulhu.\n\nThe second one is tougher. I can't be sure, but I'll go in order of\ndescending likelihood.\nI would like to thank my copy of _Encyclopedia Cthulhiana_, which comes in\nhandy\nmore often than you'd think.\n\n1. \"Black Ram with a Thousand Young\". The male aspect of the Outer God\nShub-Niggurath. My favorite for plot purposes.\n\n2. \"Wza-y'ei Rhan-Tegoth\" The first word is the start of the chant that\nsummons\nRhan-Tegoth, a Great Old One who came to Earth. It is said that the\ndestruction of\nRhan-Tegoth would prevent the awakening of the Great Old Ones.\n\n3. \"Watery R'lyeh\". Cthulhu's underwater city.\n\n4. \"Beyond Rigel\". Rigel is a star that is associated with the Elder Gods,\nenemies (more or less) of the Great Old Ones.\n\nI like 1 best because it turns the whole story into infighting between the\nbad guys with Shub-Niggurath getting the U. S. Navy to nuke Cthulhu.\nCassie\nis just a pawn in this game and is going to get her just \"reward\" on\nWoldercan\nfrom the Great C himself.\n\nEnamel\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<806E6700-4792-457A-9652-B2A93C5413F2@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-14T03:34:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe)", "in_reply_to": "<81c420fa0810131638w7e0991bn5a9fc44d68e82d4f@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Greg Bates wrote:\nGideon Chase's father is Robert Chase (I believe.) RC = Randolph \nCarter?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That certainly gives the watch another dimension, doesn't it?\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1bf4dd40810150753j35b46739m935b1eee5f246cc9@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-10-15T14:53:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe)", "in_reply_to": "<806E6700-4792-457A-9652-B2A93C5413F2@io.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Greg Bates wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "* Gideon Chase's father is Robert Chase (I believe.) RC = Randolph\n*>* Carter?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "*\nThat certainly gives the watch another dimension, doesn't it?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Randolph Carter and \"The Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath\" are heavily\nreferenced in Wolfe's story \"Game in the Pope's Head\" in \"Starwater\nStrains.\" Carter seems to be an alias given to Jack the Ripper in that\nstory, though interpretations may vary." } ] } ] }