a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers (maybe) The Urth list — 6 messages, 5 voices, 13 Oct 2008 https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5180 Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. ============================================================================== Thomas Bitterman — 13 Oct 2008, 02:37 First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and Klauser (which really needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take on the trip to Woldercan. He says, "Women have monthly needs. You could use rags, and our great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not to...". WTF? Who talks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about menstruation and the historic ways to deal with it? Now, Cthulhuiana and spoilers (if I'm lucky). The two major male protagonists have multiple identities (Wallace Rosenquist/William Reis and Gideon Chase/Gil Corby) but the names keep the same initials. If someone can have two identities, they can have more. Since it's a Lovecraftian book, let's look there. The first one is easy. Gideon Chase is the Great Cthulhu. The second one is tougher. I can't be sure, but I'll go in order of descending likelihood. I would like to thank my copy of _Encyclopedia Cthulhiana_, which comes in handy more often than you'd think. 1. "Black Ram with a Thousand Young". The male aspect of the Outer God Shub-Niggurath. My favorite for plot purposes. 2. "Wza-y'ei Rhan-Tegoth" The first word is the start of the chant that summons Rhan-Tegoth, a Great Old One who came to Earth. It is said that the destruction of Rhan-Tegoth would prevent the awakening of the Great Old Ones. 3. "Watery R'lyeh". Cthulhu's underwater city. 4. "Beyond Rigel". Rigel is a star that is associated with the Elder Gods, enemies (more or less) of the Great Old Ones. I like 1 best because it turns the whole story into infighting between the bad guys with Shub-Niggurath getting the U. S. Navy to nuke Cthulhu. Cassie is just a pawn in this game and is going to get her just "reward" on Woldercan from the Great C himself. Enamel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Adam Thornton — 13 Oct 2008, 02:55 in reply to Thomas Bitterman > On Oct 12, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Thomas Bitterman wrote: > First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and > Klauser (which > really needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take > on the trip > to Woldercan. He says, "Women have monthly needs. You could use > rags, and > our great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not > to...". WTF? Who > talks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about > menstruation and > the historic ways to deal with it? For some reason, this reminded me of the conversation between Marlowe and Sternwood in _The Big Sleep_. You know, "Orchids remind me too much of dead men's flesh." Also, of course, "I exist largely on sleep, like a newborn spider." I don't know *why* the conversation triggered that memory, but when reading Wolfe, often my hunches turn out to be at least sort of right. I think there's something to that, and something, perhaps, to the fact that the novel smells like pulp but might be noir. As far as Gideon Chase being Great Cthulhu: the dude seems much more like Nyarlathotep to me. But...well, the Haunter In Darkness is the only one of that crowd with much actual interest in humanity (admittedly, the interest of a cat with a mouse). But I wonder if Bill Reis, and the Shark God, and the Volcano God, are mere Gods of Earth, while Gideon Chase and the Squid God are something much larger. Of course, if Gideon is driven off-world by the efforts of the U.S. Navy....hmm. Adam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Duncan Truter — 13 Oct 2008, 03:20 follows, by subject match Adam Thornton Just a quick note here. if GC is one of the elder gods, the only one it makes sense for him to be is Nyarlathotep. Cthulhu is only awake for brief periods, and never takes other forms as far as I know. Also, I wonder if this is a mythos book or a lovecraft-cthulhu book. if it's a lovecraft-cthulhu book then the elder gods aren't involved. Has Wolfe given any interviews recently? Duncan > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:55:00 -0500 > From: Adam Thornton > Subject: Re: (urth) a question, some Cthulhiana, and some EG spoilers > (maybe) > To: The Urth Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; > DelSp="yes" > > > On Oct 12, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Thomas Bitterman wrote: > > First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and > > Klauser (which > > really needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take > > on the trip > > to Woldercan. He says, "Women have monthly needs. You could use > > rags, and > > our great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not > > to...". WTF? Who > > talks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about > > menstruation and > > the historic ways to deal with it? > For some reason, this reminded me of the conversation between Marlowe > and Sternwood in _The Big Sleep_. You know, "Orchids remind me too > much of dead men's flesh." Also, of course, "I exist largely on > sleep, like a newborn spider." > > I don't know *why* the conversation triggered that memory, but when > reading Wolfe, often my hunches turn out to be at least sort of > right. I think there's something to that, and something, perhaps, to > the fact that the novel smells like pulp but might be noir. > > As far as Gideon Chase being Great Cthulhu: the dude seems much more > like Nyarlathotep to me. But...well, the Haunter In Darkness is the > only one of that crowd with much actual interest in humanity > (admittedly, the interest of a cat with a mouse). But I wonder if > Bill Reis, and the Shark God, and the Volcano God, are mere Gods of > Earth, while Gideon Chase and the Squid God are something much > larger. Of course, if Gideon is driven off-world by the efforts of > the U.S. Navy....hmm. > > Adam > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: smime.p7s > Type: application/pkcs7-signature > Size: 4988 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Greg Bates — 13 Oct 2008, 23:38 in reply to Thomas Bitterman Gideon Chase's father is Robert Chase (I believe.) RC = Randolph Carter? > On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 10:37 PM, Thomas Bitterman wrote: > First, the question. In the final conversation, between Cassie and Klauser > (which > really needs extended explanation), Cassie asks Klauser what to take on the > trip > to Woldercan. He says, "Women have monthly needs. You could use rags, and > our great-great-grandmothers did, but if you would prefer not to...". > WTF? Who > talks like that? Why would an old man tell an old woman about menstruation > and > the historic ways to deal with it? > > Now, Cthulhuiana and spoilers (if I'm lucky). The two major male > protagonists have > multiple identities (Wallace Rosenquist/William Reis and Gideon Chase/Gil > Corby) > but the names keep the same initials. If someone can have two identities, > they > can have more. Since it's a Lovecraftian book, let's look there. > > The first one is easy. Gideon Chase is the Great Cthulhu. > > The second one is tougher. I can't be sure, but I'll go in order of > descending likelihood. > I would like to thank my copy of _Encyclopedia Cthulhiana_, which comes in > handy > more often than you'd think. > > 1. "Black Ram with a Thousand Young". The male aspect of the Outer God > Shub-Niggurath. My favorite for plot purposes. > > 2. "Wza-y'ei Rhan-Tegoth" The first word is the start of the chant that > summons > Rhan-Tegoth, a Great Old One who came to Earth. It is said that the > destruction of > Rhan-Tegoth would prevent the awakening of the Great Old Ones. > > 3. "Watery R'lyeh". Cthulhu's underwater city. > > 4. "Beyond Rigel". Rigel is a star that is associated with the Elder Gods, > enemies (more or less) of the Great Old Ones. > > I like 1 best because it turns the whole story into infighting between the > bad guys with Shub-Niggurath getting the U. S. Navy to nuke Cthulhu. > Cassie > is just a pawn in this game and is going to get her just "reward" on > Woldercan > from the Great C himself. > > Enamel > > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Adam Thornton — 14 Oct 2008, 03:34 in reply to Greg Bates > On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Greg Bates wrote: > Gideon Chase's father is Robert Chase (I believe.) RC = Randolph > Carter? That certainly gives the watch another dimension, doesn't it? Adam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dave Tallman — 15 Oct 2008, 14:53 follows, by subject match Adam Thornton > On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Greg Bates wrote: > > * Gideon Chase's father is Robert Chase (I believe.) RC = Randolph > > *>* Carter? > * > That certainly gives the watch another dimension, doesn't it? Randolph Carter and "The Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath" are heavily referenced in Wolfe's story "Game in the Pope's Head" in "Starwater Strains." Carter seems to be an alias given to Jack the Ripper in that story, though interpretations may vary. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------