{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5182", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5182, "subject": "Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup", "messages": 7, "voices": 6, "first": "2008-10-13T19:30:24+00:00", "last": "2008-10-14T04:00:22+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<44fb53d10810131230x6f8f126bv3df45a1ccab278cc@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-13T19:30:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alas, Wolfe didn't get his own review column this time, though of\ncourse the Post is generally pretty good to him - our own Nick Gevers\nhad a Wolfe piece there some time ago, and Post critic Michael Dirda\nis something of a Wolfe fan.\n\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR2008100902537.html\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<980459.42955.qm@web37602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-10-13T19:34:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10810131230x6f8f126bv3df45a1ccab278cc@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Speaking of EG reviews, there's one up on the Strange Horizons website, as well:\n\nhttp://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2008/10/an_evil_guest_b.shtml\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: Matthew Keeley \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:30:24 PM\nSubject: (urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup\n\nAlas, Wolfe didn't get his own review column this time, though of\ncourse the Post is generally pretty good to him - our own Nick Gevers\nhad a Wolfe piece there some time ago, and Post critic Michael Dirda\nis something of a Wolfe fan.\n\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR2008100902537.html\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Crossley", "address": "ishmael at drizzle.com" }, "date": "2008-10-13T22:04:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup", "in_reply_to": "<980459.42955.qm@web37602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Strange Horizons review captures a great deal of what I think about\nWolfe, especially recent works such as \"Memorare,\" _Pirate Freedom_ and now\n_Evil Guest_. All have hidden depths that make them well worth exploring\nand reward rereading, but am I the only one who feels that Wolfe is on the\nverge (if not past it) of making the initial reading experience off-putting?\n\nJames" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 10/13/08 12:34 PM, \"Craig Brewer\" wrote:\nSpeaking of EG reviews, there's one up on the Strange Horizons website, as\nwell:\n\nhttp://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2008/10/an_evil_guest_b.shtml\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: Matthew Keeley \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:30:24 PM\nSubject: (urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup\n\nAlas, Wolfe didn't get his own review column this time, though of\ncourse the Post is generally pretty good to him - our own Nick Gevers\nhad a Wolfe piece there some time ago, and Post critic Michael Dirda\nis something of a Wolfe fan.\n\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR200810090253\n7.html\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "aaron", "address": "aaronsingleton at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-13T22:58:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For me, _An Evil Guest_ started out as a real page turner and kept my\ninterest all the way through. And I usually become bored with books in a\nvery short time. Wolfe and Jack Vance are two writers who almost always\nkeep me reading. So for me, I do not agree with the latter review." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 6:04 PM, James Crossley wrote:\nThe Strange Horizons review captures a great deal of what I think about\nWolfe, especially recent works such as \"Memorare,\" _Pirate Freedom_ and now\n_Evil Guest_. All have hidden depths that make them well worth exploring\nand reward rereading, but am I the only one who feels that Wolfe is on the\nverge (if not past it) of making the initial reading experience\noff-putting?\n\nJames\n\nOn 10/13/08 12:34 PM, \"Craig Brewer\" wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Speaking of EG reviews, there's one up on the Strange Horizons website,\nas\nwell:\n\nhttp://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2008/10/an_evil_guest_b.shtml\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: Matthew Keeley \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:30:24 PM\nSubject: (urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup\n\nAlas, Wolfe didn't get his own review column this time, though of\ncourse the Post is generally pretty good to him - our own Nick Gevers\nhad a Wolfe piece there some time ago, and Post critic Michael Dirda\nis something of a Wolfe fan." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR200810090253\n7.html" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<48F3D378.8010001@colby.edu>", "from": { "name": "Fernando Q. Gouvea", "address": "fqgouvea at colby.edu" }, "date": "2008-10-13T23:02:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't find the initial experience of reading Wolfe off-putting, no. \nOrson Scott Card once wrote a review (of, I think, Free Live Free, but I \nmay be misremembering) saying that for him Wolfe had reached or passed \nthat point. So folks can disagree on that.\n\nI'm a little amazed at the Strange Horizons review. I find An Evil Guest \nperfectly accessible on a first reading, and a great deal of fun. It \ncertainly doesn't clarify the moral status of Reis and Chase, but hey, \nwhen does life ever do that? (My tendency is to think that both of them \nare trying to be as moral as they can, though they approach this with \nvery different premises.) There are certainly mysteries all over the \nplace, but not all mysteries need to be explained.\n\nSomeone mentioned that there is some sort of connection between Finney's \n\"The Circus of Dr. Lao\" and \"An Evil Guest\" (at the very least because \nof the name \"Woldercan\"). But one of the remarkable features of \"Dr Lao\" \nis exactly Finney's refusal to come up with any explanations at all. The \ncircus is there and it is what it is, and the novel is concerned with \nother things. Similarly, \"Guest\" doesn't explain a lot of its mysteries; \nperhaps it's just that Wolfe is interested in other things.\n\nIt seems to me that \"An Evil Guest\" is something of a romp, and it can \nand should be enjoyed as such. Yes, Wolfe's conservative take on a lot \nof things is evident in it, and yes, there are a lot of mysteries left \nover after my first reading. So what?\n\nFernando" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "James Crossley wrote:\nThe Strange Horizons review captures a great deal of what I think about\nWolfe, especially recent works such as \"Memorare,\" _Pirate Freedom_ and now\n_Evil Guest_. All have hidden depths that make them well worth exploring\nand reward rereading, but am I the only one who feels that Wolfe is on the\nverge (if not past it) of making the initial reading experience off-putting?\n\nJames" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "==================================================================\nFernando Q. Gouvea\nCarter Professor of Mathematics\nColby College Editor, FOCUS\nMayflower Hill 5836 Editor, MAA Reviews\nWaterville, ME 04901\t\t\nfqgouvea at colby.edu\n\nUsually mathematicians have to shoot somebody to get this much publicity.\n -- Thomas R. Nicely, on the attention he received after\n finding the flaw in Intel's Pentium chip in 1994" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Crossley", "address": "ishmael at drizzle.com" }, "date": "2008-10-13T23:49:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup", "in_reply_to": "<48F3D378.8010001@colby.edu>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I may have overstated my case by using the word \"off-putting,\" I suppose. I\nfound _Evil Guest_ fairly enjoyable to read, after all, even without\nconsidering what subtleties might be present in the text. But for someone\nwho's not on the lookout for such subtleties, I'm not sure that the book\noffers anything that any number of (for lack of a better word) generic\npotboilers do, and it provides a fair share of obstacles to the casual\nreader, too, including clunky dialogue and obscure motivation.\n\nBeing an admirer of Wolfe, I realize that many of these apparent flaws are\nprobably calculated and may actually offer inroads to deeper understanding,\nbut it seems to me that once upon a time, Wolfe also offered more\nsuperficial pleasures in his prose. Not every book can be written with as\nrich a vocabulary as the New Sun series, of course, but there's certainly a\nmiddle ground between that and the frankly pedestrian writing in this latest\nnovel.\n\nI just get the feeling that Wolfe is taking pleasure in disguising\nglittering sophistication with the blandest exteriors he can possibly\ncreate, almost as if he's smuggling his ideas. \"Pirates popular these days?\nI'll give you a pirate novel that traffics in all the swashbuckling cliches\nimaginable, and I'll include a straight-shooting narrator/protagonist who\nexplains everything that's happening. Wouldn't want anyone to think I was\none of those smarty-pants authors who's trying to make my readers feel dumb.\nNope, I'm just a safe, simple yarn-spinner. Buy my book instead of that\nStar Wars tie-in novel . . .\"\n\nJames " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 10/13/08 4:02 PM, \"Fernando Q. Gouvea\" wrote:\nI don't find the initial experience of reading Wolfe off-putting, no.\nOrson Scott Card once wrote a review (of, I think, Free Live Free, but I\nmay be misremembering) saying that for him Wolfe had reached or passed\nthat point. So folks can disagree on that.\n\nI'm a little amazed at the Strange Horizons review. I find An Evil Guest\nperfectly accessible on a first reading, and a great deal of fun. It\ncertainly doesn't clarify the moral status of Reis and Chase, but hey,\nwhen does life ever do that? (My tendency is to think that both of them\nare trying to be as moral as they can, though they approach this with\nvery different premises.) There are certainly mysteries all over the\nplace, but not all mysteries need to be explained.\n\nSomeone mentioned that there is some sort of connection between Finney's\n\"The Circus of Dr. Lao\" and \"An Evil Guest\" (at the very least because\nof the name \"Woldercan\"). But one of the remarkable features of \"Dr Lao\"\nis exactly Finney's refusal to come up with any explanations at all. The\ncircus is there and it is what it is, and the novel is concerned with\nother things. Similarly, \"Guest\" doesn't explain a lot of its mysteries;\nperhaps it's just that Wolfe is interested in other things.\n\nIt seems to me that \"An Evil Guest\" is something of a romp, and it can\nand should be enjoyed as such. Yes, Wolfe's conservative take on a lot\nof things is evident in it, and yes, there are a lot of mysteries left\nover after my first reading. So what?\n\nFernando\n\n\nJames Crossley wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The Strange Horizons review captures a great deal of what I think about\nWolfe, especially recent works such as \"Memorare,\" _Pirate Freedom_ and now\n_Evil Guest_. All have hidden depths that make them well worth exploring\nand reward rereading, but am I the only one who feels that Wolfe is on the\nverge (if not past it) of making the initial reading experience off-putting?\n\nJames" } ] }, { "message_id": "<136013.4368.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2008-10-14T04:00:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can feel his pain...AEG wasn't my favorite...but as an artist/entertainer/musician (?) \nI have fans who complain if I don't play my \"hits\" from my first albums (remember \"albums\"?) and those who rip me? a new one for playing the same old stuff over and over....\n\n\nGarden Party anyone???....\n\n???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Mon, 10/13/08, James Crossley wrote:\nFrom: James Crossley \nSubject: Re: (urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Monday, October 13, 2008, 3:04 PM\n\nThe Strange Horizons review captures a great deal of what I think about\nWolfe, especially recent works such as \"Memorare,\" _Pirate Freedom_\nand now\n_Evil Guest_. All have hidden depths that make them well worth exploring\nand reward rereading, but am I the only one who feels that Wolfe is on the\nverge (if not past it) of making the initial reading experience off-putting?\n\nJames" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 10/13/08 12:34 PM, \"Craig Brewer\" \nwrote:\nSpeaking of EG reviews, there's one up on the Strange Horizons\nwebsite, as\nwell:\n\nhttp://www.strangehorizons.com/reviews/2008/10/an_evil_guest_b.shtml\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: Matthew Keeley \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:30:24 PM\nSubject: (urth) Evil Guest Reviewed in Washington Post SF Roundup\n\nAlas, Wolfe didn't get his own review column this time, though of\ncourse the Post is generally pretty good to him - our own Nick Gevers\nhad a Wolfe piece there some time ago, and Post critic Michael Dirda\nis something of a Wolfe fan." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR200810090253" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "7.html\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net\n\n\n\n \n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" } ] } ] }