{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5192", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5192, "subject": "Fuligin in illustration", "messages": 31, "voices": 12, "first": "2008-10-23T23:49:03+00:00", "last": "2008-10-31T20:37:52+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-23T23:49:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Old topic, I know. hopefully it's not unwelcome to respond to some very old posts.\n\nI'm an illustrator, and I've been sketching some scenes from this book over the last month or so. Fuligin is a challenge that I didn't think it would be.\n\nFirst of all, while the text says:\n\"the hue fuligin, which is darker than black, admirably erases all\nfolds, bunchings, and gatherings so far as the eye is concerned, showing only a featureless dark.\"\n\nDoes anyone read this as saying that highlights wouldn't show up?\nIt seems to me that it says \"folds, bunchings, and gatherings\" — all things that create shadows, become a \"featureless dark\". But what of highlights? Surely when a light (like the claw's) hits it strongly, the cloak would catch some of the highlights. I picture this as a lot dimmer of a highlight than an ordinary black, but still a highlight.\n\nAnyway, I'm aiming that my illustrations would be considered \"legitimate\" if they were seen by someone familiar with the story. Does anyone have thoughts on this, especially ones that would argue with what I've said above about highlights?\n\n\n\n(sorry about the lack of formatting here)\n\nFrom: Dan Parmenter \nSubject: (urth) cover art\nDate: 16 Jan 2001 12:40:19 \n\nHurm, I still like the Pennington (original UK) covers best. But why\nis it so hard for artists to draw a fuligin cloak? You'd think it\nwould be easy, but these artists always insist on making it look like\nit's made of something shiny and reflective. And they can't seem to\nresist putting a shirt on him. I'm not looking for a Frazetta Conan\nhere, but the first impression should be of the \"classic torturer\",\nusually depicted topless (see \"The 500 Hats of Bartholomew Cubbins\" by\nDr. Seuss for a good example of the type, and come to think of it, an\nearly example of the \"compassionate torturer\" (urgh, that sounds a bit\nlike GWB, sorry)).\n\n____________________________________\n\n\nI agree, the Pennington covers rule.\n\nFirst, Yes, Fuligin is a big challenge for the artist. It just looks wrong when you don't put any shadows or highlights. I imagine it would be VERY strange looking in real life, as the text demonstrates. \nIF it doesn't catch highlights, how do you put any subtlety into his mask? how do you differentiate the cloak from his pants from his boots?\nThe artist is either force to do it literally, which looks very awkward, or forced to stylize it, I've used a white edging that is not intended to be physically present as a detail\n\nSecond:\nthe shirtless factor. I'm sorry. I've drawn this several times now. It is incredibly difficult to not make Severian look like he's a gay leather-daddy BDSM fetishizer. (absolutely nothing wrong with gay leather daddies, just that I'm sure we'd all agree that doesn't really fit Severian)\nAnd, if you look at those classic shirtless Executioner illustrations, the guy is usually a grotesque ox of a man, not the strapping young lad Sev is.\nas soon as you put an athletic figure into it, it looks like bondage gear.\n\n\n______________________________________________________\n\nFrom: \"Steve Strickland\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) fuligin\nDate: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:32:21 -0600\n\nI was looking up the word 'fuligin' in the dictionary the other day. I was\ninterested to see that sitting right in front of the 'fuligin'-like words\n(namely, 'fuliginated', meaning 'of a sooty color or appearance'; 'fuligo',\nmeaning 'soot'; and 'fuliginous', meaning 'blackened with soot'), there were\nwere several similar sounding words derived from a root with a quite\ndifferent meaning. These were 'fulgurate' ('emit flashes like lightening');\n'fulguration' ('the action of lightening'; 'in assaying, a brightening in\nthe appearance of a molten metal'); 'fulgurous' ('resembling, full of or\ncharged with lightening').\n\nLike the little girl in the jacal Severian brought back to life, we all know\nthat the fuligin that is blacker than black, when worn by Severian, the\ntorturer who is not a torturer, is in reality whiter than white. Severian\nis the shadow of the torturer, which means, in Chesterton's terms, that he\nis not the torturer, not death, but something in fact like the opposite of\ndeath; and it is he who brings the white sun as the new sun. As I recall,\ntoward the end of Citadel of the Autarch Severian even laughs at himself as\nhe describes how he exchanged the cloth that is blacker than black for the\nwhite that is whiter than white.\n\nSo I wonder if Wolfe intentionally selected the term fuligin in part because\nits root word meaning 'soot' is so similar to the root word meaning\n'lightening'. Sort of a play on words. Something like that would\ncertainly be within his bags of tricks, uh, I mean, repertoire.\n\nSteve\n\n______________________________________________________\n\n\nBrilliant point about this paradox. This speaks to the transubstantial meaning." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370810231655g5407c5e0u3b308d5931ece172@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-23T23:55:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think the point of fuligin is that it doesn't reflect light at all. Albedo\n0." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Son of Witz wrote:\nOld topic, I know. hopefully it's not unwelcome to respond to some very old\nposts.\n\nI'm an illustrator, and I've been sketching some scenes from this book over\nthe last month or so. Fuligin is a challenge that I didn't think it would\nbe.\n\nFirst of all, while the text says:\n\"the hue fuligin, which is darker than black, admirably erases all\nfolds, bunchings, and gatherings so far as the eye is concerned, showing\nonly a featureless dark.\"\n\nDoes anyone read this as saying that highlights wouldn't show up?\nIt seems to me that it says \"folds, bunchings, and gatherings\" — all things\nthat create shadows, become a \"featureless dark\". But what of highlights?\nSurely when a light (like the claw's) hits it strongly, the cloak would\ncatch some of the highlights. I picture this as a lot dimmer of a highlight\nthan an ordinary black, but still a highlight.\n\nAnyway, I'm aiming that my illustrations would be considered \"legitimate\"\nif they were seen by someone familiar with the story. Does anyone have\nthoughts on this, especially ones that would argue with what I've said above\nabout highlights?\n\n\n\n(sorry about the lack of formatting here)\n\nFrom: Dan Parmenter \nSubject: (urth) cover art\nDate: 16 Jan 2001 12:40:19\n\nHurm, I still like the Pennington (original UK) covers best. But why\nis it so hard for artists to draw a fuligin cloak? You'd think it\nwould be easy, but these artists always insist on making it look like\nit's made of something shiny and reflective. And they can't seem to\nresist putting a shirt on him. I'm not looking for a Frazetta Conan\nhere, but the first impression should be of the \"classic torturer\",\nusually depicted topless (see \"The 500 Hats of Bartholomew Cubbins\" by\nDr. Seuss for a good example of the type, and come to think of it, an\nearly example of the \"compassionate torturer\" (urgh, that sounds a bit\nlike GWB, sorry)).\n\n____________________________________\n\n\nI agree, the Pennington covers rule.\n\nFirst, Yes, Fuligin is a big challenge for the artist. It just looks wrong\nwhen you don't put any shadows or highlights. I imagine it would be VERY\nstrange looking in real life, as the text demonstrates.\nIF it doesn't catch highlights, how do you put any subtlety into his mask?\nhow do you differentiate the cloak from his pants from his boots?\nThe artist is either force to do it literally, which looks very awkward, or\nforced to stylize it, I've used a white edging that is not intended to be\nphysically present as a detail\n\nSecond:\nthe shirtless factor. I'm sorry. I've drawn this several times now. It is\nincredibly difficult to not make Severian look like he's a gay leather-daddy\nBDSM fetishizer. (absolutely nothing wrong with gay leather daddies, just\nthat I'm sure we'd all agree that doesn't really fit Severian)\nAnd, if you look at those classic shirtless Executioner illustrations, the\nguy is usually a grotesque ox of a man, not the strapping young lad Sev is.\nas soon as you put an athletic figure into it, it looks like bondage gear.\n\n\n______________________________________________________\n\nFrom: \"Steve Strickland\"\nSubject: Re: (urth) fuligin\nDate: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:32:21 -0600\n\nI was looking up the word 'fuligin' in the dictionary the other day. I was\ninterested to see that sitting right in front of the 'fuligin'-like words\n(namely, 'fuliginated', meaning 'of a sooty color or appearance'; 'fuligo',\nmeaning 'soot'; and 'fuliginous', meaning 'blackened with soot'), there\nwere\nwere several similar sounding words derived from a root with a quite\ndifferent meaning. These were 'fulgurate' ('emit flashes like\nlightening');\n'fulguration' ('the action of lightening'; 'in assaying, a brightening in\nthe appearance of a molten metal'); 'fulgurous' ('resembling, full of or\ncharged with lightening').\n\nLike the little girl in the jacal Severian brought back to life, we all\nknow\nthat the fuligin that is blacker than black, when worn by Severian, the\ntorturer who is not a torturer, is in reality whiter than white. Severian\nis the shadow of the torturer, which means, in Chesterton's terms, that he\nis not the torturer, not death, but something in fact like the opposite of\ndeath; and it is he who brings the white sun as the new sun. As I recall,\ntoward the end of Citadel of the Autarch Severian even laughs at himself as\nhe describes how he exchanged the cloth that is blacker than black for the\nwhite that is whiter than white.\n\nSo I wonder if Wolfe intentionally selected the term fuligin in part\nbecause\nits root word meaning 'soot' is so similar to the root word meaning\n'lightening'. Sort of a play on words. Something like that would\ncertainly be within his bags of tricks, uh, I mean, repertoire.\n\nSteve\n\n______________________________________________________\n\n\nBrilliant point about this paradox. This speaks to the transubstantial\nmeaning.\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-24T01:50:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370810231655g5407c5e0u3b308d5931ece172@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Albedo 0.\nthanks.\nI was not familiar with that concept.\nthat makes it all the more symbolically resonant as well.\nthanks. I suppose I won't cheat.\n~SonOfWitz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes [mailto:danldo at gmail.com]\nSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 04:55 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-24T12:28:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember that there was some red embroidery on the cloack? Or was that on only on the mask?\n \nAs an aside, in the GURPS rolepleying supplement Severian is actually depicted without a shirt. It's the most faitful illustration I've seen to date Severian.\n \nAs ANOTHER aside, I was reading the entry on MATACHIN on LEXICON URTHUS and the book states that it's based on a Spanish sword dance. This is incorrect. It's a Mexican dance with no conection per si to Spain, although it certainly incorporates influences from the history of the spanish conquerors in Mexico, but still saying that it's a spanish dance leads one to wrong conclusions. \n \nPedro\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-24T16:44:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Pedro Pereira [mailto:domus_artemis at hotmail.com]\nSent: Friday, October 24, 2008 05:28 AM\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) Fuligin in illustration\n\n\nI may be mistaken, but I seem to remember that there was some red embroidery on the cloack? Or was that on only on the mask?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "______________________________________________\n\nI missed that if so.\n______________________________________________" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As an aside, in the GURPS rolepleying supplement Severian is actually depicted without a shirt. It's the most faitful illustration I've seen to date Severian." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "______________________________________________\n\nI'll have to check that book out. I just read the intro pdf found online.\nthanks." } ] }, { "message_id": "<0C7A30A8-44EC-4FC5-9E0A-AB04204CC60C@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-24T17:28:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Oct 24, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Son of Witz wrote:\n\nI may be mistaken, but I seem to remember that there was some red \nembroidery on the cloack? Or was that on only on the mask?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "______________________________________________\n\nI missed that if so.\n_______________" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I imagine the lining as red, but that might be from one cover or \nanother. I never imagined the exterior as ornamented.\n\nFor some reason \"red embroidery on the cloak\" makes me think of a \nmechanic's shirt, with \"Leonard\" or whatever stitched above the \npocket. I love the idea of \"Severian\" being stitched on the cloak. \nMaybe it's like a bowling league shirt, with \"Citadel Pin-Pushers\" and \nthe logo (a rose, a fountain, a bowling pin?) on the back? I need a \nweekend.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<9f1507fc0810241106n6daa8571u622ca0000cb26f07@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Kerry Benton", "address": "k.benton at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-24T18:06:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<0C7A30A8-44EC-4FC5-9E0A-AB04204CC60C@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't recall any reference to a red (or any other color) lining in the\nbook, but I admit it's been a while.\n\nThe most common book cover illustration seems to be the one that's still on\nthe current Orb \"Shadow & Claw\" edition, which shows not merely a red, but a\nbeautiful varicolored lining that in fact spills over the top in a frilly\nsort of collar. It also shows a great deal of shadow and lighting effects\non the fuligin and has severian wearing a black (or fuligin) shirt. I've\nalways thought this illustration was gorgeous and would love to have a large\nsized print of it, but I also have a distinct memory of the moment I\nrealized it wasn't accurate (upon my 2nd or 3rd reading probably).\n\nThere's a Japanese cover that I think is fascinating... it appears to be\ninspired by the painting referenced above, but with a really distinctive\nstyle : http://flickr.com/photos/78615114 at N00/2481269054\n\n\nAnyway, my 1 or 2 cents.\n\n-k" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:\n\nOn Oct 24, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Son of Witz wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember that there was some red\nembroidery on the cloack? Or was that on only on the mask?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "______________________________________________\n\nI missed that if so.\n_______________" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I imagine the lining as red, but that might be from one cover or another.\n I never imagined the exterior as ornamented.\n\nFor some reason \"red embroidery on the cloak\" makes me think of a\nmechanic's shirt, with \"Leonard\" or whatever stitched above the pocket. I\nlove the idea of \"Severian\" being stitched on the cloak. Maybe it's like a\nbowling league shirt, with \"Citadel Pin-Pushers\" and the logo (a rose, a\nfountain, a bowling pin?) on the back? I need a weekend.\n\nAdam\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-27T19:39:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<9f1507fc0810241106n6daa8571u622ca0000cb26f07@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah,\n\na simple caveat, for what it's worth:\n\nSeverian's clothes would be very dirty most of this journey. He gets dowsed in the lake that found Dorcas covered in mud. I figure he gets a wash up in Thrax, but before and after, he'd have so much mud and dust that there would be some sort of diffuse reflectivity in the clothing." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-29T18:13:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'll let this topic rest, but I wanted to share this illustration I found online to the Hungarian Shadow Of the Torturer.\n\nhttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2347/2417005336_602e07d1d1_o.png\n\nthe best, coolest illustration I've come across for this series besides the Pennington Shadow cover. Note the Avern in the lower left of the back cover.\n\nThe gauntlets aren't legit, and maybe the sabretache is overlarge, and of cousre, the Fuligin issue is avoided. (though another Caveat is that somewhere in Sword or Citadel he mentions his cloak being 'faded' by that point.) And Terminus Est lacks the carved heads on the quillions\n\nThe artist did draw him shirtless though, but shaded the body to deemphasize.\n(Does anyone know the artist's name) I love that there is absolutely nothing 'sci-fi' looking about this illustration. Great stuff.\n\n\nalright,\nback to AEG with you all.\n\n~sonofwitz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Pedro Pereira [mailto:domus_artemis at hotmail.com]\nSent: Friday, October 24, 2008 05:28 AM\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) Fuligin in illustration" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As an aside, in the GURPS rolepleying supplement Severian is actually depicted without a shirt. It's the most faitful illustration I've seen to date Severian." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-29T20:03:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've seen that one before. I still think the GURPS illustration is more faitful although not as stylish.\n \n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-29T22:09:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Pedro Pereira [mailto:domus_artemis at hotmail.com]\nSent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 01:03 PM\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) Fuligin in illustration\n\n\nI've seen that one before. I still think the GURPS illustration is more faitful although not as stylish." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've not gotten ahold of this book.\nis it worthwhile? I'm not going play the game.\nIs the illustration you're talking about the one found on the table of contents, as shown in the pdf found here?:\nhttp://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/newsun/\nclick on the red excerpts \"table of contents\" to see the pdf." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-29T22:28:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, it's in another part of the book. I think the book is worthwhile. It's a nice compilation of stuff related to the cycle.\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-29T22:32:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "No, it's in another part of the book. I think the book is worthwhile. It's a nice compilation of stuff related to the cycle.\n\nPedro>" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "thanks. Just realized Mantis wrote it." } ] }, { "message_id": "<27932FDC-41F3-4659-96C0-218E7347A7A1@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-29T22:52:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Oct 29, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Son of Witz wrote:\nI've not gotten ahold of this book.\nis it worthwhile? I'm not going play the game." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I liked it, but then I'm a GURPS player.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4908FE44.3@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-30T00:22:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Son of Witz wrote:\nI'll let this topic rest, but I wanted to share this illustration I found online to the Hungarian Shadow Of the Torturer.\n\nhttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2347/2417005336_602e07d1d1_o.png\n\nthe best, coolest illustration I've come across for this series besides the Pennington Shadow cover. Note the Avern in the lower left of the back cover.\n\nThe gauntlets aren't legit, and maybe the sabretache is overlarge, and of cousre, the Fuligin issue is avoided. (though another Caveat is that somewhere in Sword or Citadel he mentions his cloak being 'faded' by that point.) And Terminus Est lacks the carved heads on the quillions\n\nThe artist did draw him shirtless though, but shaded the body to deemphasize.\n(Does anyone know the artist's name) I love that there is absolutely nothing 'sci-fi' looking about this illustration. Great stuff." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The tower tops seem to have canard \"fins\" on their cones." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4909369B.7040806@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-30T04:22:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Pedro Pereira wrote:\nNo, it's in another part of the book. I think the book is worthwhile. \nIt's a nice compilation of stuff related to the cycle.\n \nPedro" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This middle picture on this page?\n\nhttp://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/newsun/art.html" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nessuno", "address": "nessun-sapra at web.de" }, "date": "2008-10-30T08:30:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<4909369B.7040806@io.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi there,\n\n \n\njust a quick not to let you know that the artist’s name is Rich rd Vass\n(www.vassrichard.hu ).\n\n \n\nNessuno" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-30T12:15:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<4909369B.7040806@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nope.\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-30T15:57:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Nessuno [mailto:nessun-sapra at web.de]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "just a quick not to let you know that the artist’s name is Rich rd Vass\n(www.vassrichard.hu ).\n\nNessuno" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\n\nThanks Nessuno, some great stuff on his site. \n\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\n\nThis middle picture on this page?\n\nhttp://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/newsun/art.html\n\n\t\n ++\nNope.\n \nPedro\n\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\n\nGreat, I was hoping neither of those were it. That one on the gallery page doesn't strike me as accurate. It seems to imply sleeves at the wrist. Terminus Est has no quillions, and there is no justification for any designs on the mask. The mask is described as Fuligin leather stiffened with strips of bone, so one could argue for a bit of white in there, but it's reaching.\n\nI hope to finish this Avern Duel scratchboard piece this weekend. I'm trying to make it look like similar to the style of D?rer's Nurenburg woodcuts. If people express an interest, I'll share it here. \n\nthanks all.\n~Witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10810300923w5b5e78c7hc8644f7725ced897@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-30T16:23:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Son of Witz\n wrote:\n\nI hope to finish this Avern Duel scratchboard piece this weekend. I'm trying to make it look like similar to the style of D?rer's Nurenburg woodcuts. If people express an interest, I'll share it here.\n\nthanks all.\n~Witz" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'd be interested.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370810301022l42c2894apc19f3e5666c0b9c5@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-30T17:22:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10810300923w5b5e78c7hc8644f7725ced897@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Matthew Keeley\nwrote:\nOn Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Son of Witz\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I hope to finish this Avern Duel scratchboard piece this weekend. I'm\ntrying to make it look like similar to the style of D?rer's Nurenburg\nwoodcuts. If people express an interest, I'll share it here." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'd be interested.\n\n-Matt" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Me too." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\n\nI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a restaurant\nand, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand Island Dressing and\na bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nigel Price", "address": "nigelaprice at talktalk.net" }, "date": "2008-10-30T19:31:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370810301022l42c2894apc19f3e5666c0b9c5@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Son of Witz said..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "If people express an interest, I'll share it here." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Matt said..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'd be interested." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And Dan'l said..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Me too." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, please.\n\nNigel" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-30T22:55:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "cool.\nI'll send some links.\nThis one I'm working on now will hopefully end up on a band tee-shirt. The band likes the idea, but hasn't seen the art yet.\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Nigel Price [mailto:nigelaprice at talktalk.net]\nSent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:31 PM\nTo: 'Urth List'\nSubject: (urth) Fuligin in illustration\n\nSon of Witz said..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "If people express an interest, I'll share it here." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Matt said..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I'd be interested." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And Dan'l said..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Me too." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yes, please.\n\nNigel\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<490A3D00.4040304@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-30T23:02:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Pedro Pereira wrote:\nNope." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Which page?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-31T00:36:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<490A3D00.4040304@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "12.\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<9c6b022b0810302153k6f5895ecya57ef45ecff07010@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Ranjit Bhatnagar", "address": "ranjit at moonmilk.com" }, "date": "2008-10-31T04:53:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson kindly scanned the Severian illustration from the GURPS\nmanual, but the attachment was too large for the mailing list so I've\nposted it on the web site here:\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/pics/12sm.jpg\n\n- Ranjit" } ] }, { "message_id": "<213658b00810302224o5a979ca0sbda4c166b45b56a6@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Daniel Slatkin", "address": "palundrium at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-31T05:24:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<9c6b022b0810302153k6f5895ecya57ef45ecff07010@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm a bit of a cover art enthusiast so I've got about six versions of\nthe cover art for all four books saved with the authors' names and\nlocations. Vass Rich rd has covers for awell as Claw and Sword, all\nwhich carry the same style as Shadow. I couldn't find Citadel, though.\nIf anybody owuld like uploads it wouldn't be too hard.\n\nDanny" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Ranjit Bhatnagar wrote:\nJeff Wilson kindly scanned the Severian illustration from the GURPS\nmanual, but the attachment was too large for the mailing list so I've\nposted it on the web site here:\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/pics/12sm.jpg\n\n- Ranjit\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-10-31T16:45:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "<213658b00810302224o5a979ca0sbda4c166b45b56a6@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You guys are great.\nthanks so much for scanning and hosting the illustration.\nyes i agree its the most faithful thing I've seen for Severian.\nand very well rendered ta boot.\n\nand yes, I'd LOVE to seen the additional Vass Richard covers.\n\nthis rendering does bring up one other question I've been toying with, which is, wouldn't these future ice age folk be sorta hairy. Anything I've seen has a sort of modern whiteboy look, ie, not so hairy. I suppose he might look like a manly russian old school dude. I mean, he's a wolf and the name Severian is Russian, No? anyway, I don't really think there is much mention of his hair, other than the black hairs on the back of his hands and head, and his shaving. I don't think there is anything to say he's not a hairy chested man.\n\nChrist, I'm such a nerd.\n\nbest,\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Daniel Slatkin [mailto:palundrium at gmail.com]\nSent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:24 PM\nTo: 'The Urth Mailing List'\nSubject: Re: (urth) Fuligin in illustration\n\nI'm a bit of a cover art enthusiast so I've got about six versions of\nthe cover art for all four books saved with the authors' names and\nlocations. Vass Rich rd has covers for awell as Claw and Sword, all\nwhich carry the same style as Shadow. I couldn't find Citadel, though.\nIf anybody owuld like uploads it wouldn't be too hard.\n\nDanny\n\nOn Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Ranjit Bhatnagar wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Jeff Wilson kindly scanned the Severian illustration from the GURPS\nmanual, but the attachment was too large for the mailing list so I've\nposted it on the web site here:\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/pics/12sm.jpg\n\n- Ranjit\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370810311022n413381cdx8c2f8ae5820ad577@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-31T17:22:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Son of Witz wrote:\nthis rendering does bring up one other question I've been toying with,\nwhich is, wouldn't these future ice age folk be sorta hairy. Anything I've\nseen has a sort of modern whiteboy look, ie, not so hairy. I suppose he\nmight look like a manly russian old school dude. I mean, he's a wolf and\nthe name Severian is Russian, No? anyway, I don't really think there is\nmuch mention of his hair, other than the black hairs on the back of his\nhands and head, and his shaving. I don't think there is anything to say\nhe's not a hairy chested man." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There's a passage -- I can't recall whether it's in the Book proper or\nCastle of\nthe Otter -- where either Severian or Wolfe says that each continent has its\nproper racial \"type\" of person, and that after invaders have been there a\nfew\nthousand years they begin to look like the people they've displaced.\n\nBy that logic I would expect Severian's people to look like native South\nAmericans." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\n\nI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a restaurant\nand, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand Island Dressing and\na bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett" } ] }, { "message_id": "<490B5EA4.9040803@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-31T19:38:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Son of Witz wrote:\nYou guys are great.\nthanks so much for scanning and hosting the illustration.\nyes i agree its the most faithful thing I've seen for Severian.\nand very well rendered ta boot.\n\nand yes, I'd LOVE to seen the additional Vass Richard covers.\n\nthis rendering does bring up one other question I've been toying\nwith, which is, wouldn't these future ice age folk be sorta hairy.\nAnything I've seen has a sort of modern whiteboy look, ie, not so\nhairy. I suppose he might look like a manly russian old school dude.\nI mean, he's a wolf and the name Severian is Russian, No? anyway, I\ndon't really think there is much mention of his hair, other than the\nblack hairs on the back of his hands and head, and his shaving. I\ndon't think there is anything to say he's not a hairy chested man." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "He does complain that he has lost his resistance to cold after wearing a \nshirt since his ascention IIRC, and at one point awakens to find ants \ncrawling on his chest. Both would be wonderful times to describe his \nchest hair, if there were any of prominence.\n\nCutting with the other edge, he is likely the descendant of Exultants \nand their prettified servants, so gene selection for mooky whiteboyhood \nis very likely." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<816258.28511.qm@web180001.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "John Smith", "address": "jsmith2627 at att.net" }, "date": "2008-10-31T20:37:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin in illustration", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Fri, 10/31/08, Son of Witz wrote:\nFrom: Son of Witz \nSubject: Re: (urth) Fuligin in illustration\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:45 PM\nYou guys are great.\nthanks so much for scanning and hosting the illustration.\nyes i agree its the most faithful thing I've seen for\nSeverian.\nand very well rendered ta boot.\n\nand yes, I'd LOVE to seen the additional Vass Richard\ncovers.\n\nthis rendering does bring up one other question I've\nbeen toying with, which is, wouldn't these future ice\nage folk be sorta hairy. Anything I've seen has a sort\nof modern whiteboy look, ie, not so hairy. I suppose he\nmight look like a manly russian old school dude. I mean,\nhe's a wolf and the name Severian is Russian, No? \nanyway, I don't really think there is much mention of\nhis hair, other than the black hairs on the back of his\nhands and head, and his shaving. I don't think there is\nanything to say he's not a hairy chested man.\n\nChrist, I'm such a nerd.\n\nbest,\n~witz" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " If we're counting on natural selection to cause ice-age people to become hairy, they probably won't. Clothes, fire and other gifts of civilization will be much more important to survival than body hair. Those who retain the most civilization will most likely survive and pass on their genes.\n\nAnd let's not forget sexual selection, another of Darwin's great insights. If women choose men who are relatively hairless, then hairlessness becomes more common. On the other hand, if women prefer hairy guys, we'll all end up looking like gorillas.\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack" } ] } ] }