{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5193", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5193, "subject": "Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "messages": 9, "voices": 5, "first": "2008-10-24T15:38:57+00:00", "last": "2008-10-27T16:21:34+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<1bf4dd40810240838m48105531j8e02c373b3f7db03@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-10-24T15:38:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Something very strange was going on with Cassie's apartment in this story.\nThere are too many inconsistencies for the explanation to be typos or\nmistakes. I believe the answer is that Cassie was unconsciously warping\nreality. Dr. Chase implied that the change he enabled in her was more than\njust bringing out latent talent: she had been raised to a near-angelic level\nof power. \"It is easy, terribly easy, for someone who has transformed up to\nslip back down\" (p. 100).\n\n 1. In the beginning, Cassie lives on West Arbor (p.81), next to apartment\n 3B (p. 52), so she's in 3A. It's probably on the third floor of a small\n building; it's only a few steps from the elevator to her door (p. 52).\n 2. It's within a short walk of a Baskin-Robbins (p. 43). It's not a big,\n upscale store since only a single surly teenager is on duty there.\n 3. It's eighteen blocks from the home of the successful Sharon Bench,\n probably on the poor side of town (p. 24).\n 4. There is a mention of windows, but not French windows or a balcony (p.\n 43).\n 5. It's difficult to find parking places nearby -- Chase has to walk four\n blocks (p. 81).\n\nA couple of days later:\n\n 1. She's on the fifth floor (p. 111).\n 2. The view shows several cars parked on the side of the street, at about\n the same time of day as when Chase had trouble finding parking (p. 111).\n 3. Some nearby buildings have doormen (p. 111), but apparently not hers.\n Several people call unannounced. Her telephone is working, but she gets no\n calls about them (p. 105-110).\n 4. That night, she suddenly has a doorman who calls to screen her\n visitors (p. 116).\n\nShe didn't just move to a fancier place with her success. She had the same\nupstairs neighbor, Brian Pickins (pp. 85, 250). The hole Gideon Chase made\nto break into her apartment also connects the places (p. 76, 87).\n\nAfter she goes to the South Sea island, the assassin gives her address as\n181 East Arbor Boulevard, apartment 301 and Cassie confirms it (p. 249). The\nfact that it is back on the third floor suggests that it's reverting to a\nlower level since she is not there to maintain focus on it. The doorman may\nalso be gone, since the cultists have managed to kill a tenant and take over\nhis apartment undetected.\n\nIn the end, she seems to have lost her power and she is prematurely aged,\npossibly from burn-out as well as her harrowing experiences. Her apartment\nhas gone back to the west side of town (\"Best of all it was on the east side\nof Kingsport, across town from her old one.\" p. 293). This transition was\nrougher than the others and it seems that in the process all of her\npossessions were lost (p. 292).\n\nThere are several other instances of reality-warping in the rest of the\nstory.\n\n 1. People start thinking she is famous before she has even given her\n breakthrough performance (p. 45), and Sharon calls her a famous actress the\n day after that performance (p. 89).\n 2. Early on, Cassie is familiar with Mickey the stage manager and asks\n for him by name (p. 58). Later, she doesn't know his name (p. 137). A famous\n star wouldn't know a lowly stage manager, unlike the struggling actress she\n was.\n 3. Vince Palma knows her full name and uses it in public (p. 63). Later,\n Cassie is so surprised that Reis has found out her real first name that she\n stutters (p. 146).\n 4. She sees Alexis Cabana as a waitress at Rusterman's (p. 118). Alexis\n doesn't remember acting under that name (or she pretends not to). I don't\n believe this is just a coincidental resemblance. Possibly the past has been\n warped so that Cassie played the main role (\"By this time you'd be Jane\n Simmons.\" p. 54).\n 5. Cassie hid her diamond necklace in her hotel room and the next morning\n finds it in a room safe she doesn't remember using (p. 152-153). I believe\n she created the room safe overnight out of her wish to have a more secure\n place for her jewels.\n 6. She calls Sharon from the South Sea island at her breakfast time (p.\n 236), which would be nearly Sharon's lunch time because Cassie is a late\n riser (\"I get up at eleven, don't I, Margaret?\" p. 139). There is almost no\n time difference, which is impossible if Sharon is really back in the states.\n I believe Cassie has time-warped this call. It's possible that some sort of\n time-warping is available on the islands and that Reis makes use of it,\n because he acts so quickly to find Cassie almost as soon as she is recruited\n by Chase (\"This afternoon I found my director.\" p. 66). There seems to be a\n connection between Woldercan, where ethermail messages can arrive out of\n causality order (pp. 18-19, 298), and the Chtulhu-ruled islands. (Woldercan\n is the name of a city where a pagan god was worshipped with human sacrifices\n in \"The Circus of Dr. Lao\", so a link is definitely implied). Former\n ambassador Klauser also says that time is an illusion (p. 298).\n\nIn the end, \"Fiona\" was hoping to bring Cassie Casey back (p. 296). She was\ngoing to Woldercan to see Gideon Chase. I doubt he would be able to perform\nthe same trick twice, but he will love her anyway (\"As soon as he spoke, he\nknew that for him no reversal would have the least effect.\" p. 81). There's\na chance for a bittersweet happy ending, but Cassie was still deep in grief\nover Bill/Wally. She may have had a sense of Bill's presence because of the\nlast fading traces of her power which she lost when she got far enough away\nfrom Earth. That would account for her sudden desperate cry: \"Please, oh,\nplease, Wally! Come back to me!\"\n\nReis had good intentions, but he had a \"touch of megalomania\" (p. 304) and\nwanted to rule the world (\"I have that island now, but I've seen a better\none. A blue isle in a sea of black. I fight for it every day, and I'll win.\"\np. 125). He did far more harm with his good intentions than the amoral Dr.\nChase, especially when he provoked a fight between the Navy and Cthulhu. I\nwould say that the power of his alchemical wealth was the \"evil guest\" in\nthis story which destroyed both him and Cassie." } ] }, { "message_id": "<6.2.1.2.1.20081024211515.02c68b20@pop.central.cox.net>", "from": { "name": "Dan", "address": "autarch at cox.net" }, "date": "2008-10-25T02:35:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<1bf4dd40810240838m48105531j8e02c373b3f7db03@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 12:28 PM 10/24/2008, you wrote:\nMessage: 3\nDate: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:38:57 -0600\nFrom: \"Dave Tallman\" \nSubject: (urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nMessage-ID:\n <1bf4dd40810240838m48105531j8e02c373b3f7db03 at mail.gmail.com>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"iso-8859-1\"\n\nSomething very strange was going on with Cassie's apartment in this story.\nThere are too many inconsistencies for the explanation to be typos or\nmistakes. I believe the answer is that Cassie was unconsciously warping\nreality. Dr. Chase implied that the change he enabled in her was more than\njust bringing out latent talent: she had been raised to a near-angelic level\nof power. \"It is easy, terribly easy, for someone who has transformed up to\nslip back down\" (p. 100).\n\n 1. In the beginning, Cassie lives on West Arbor (p.81), next to apartment\n 3B (p. 52), so she's in 3A. It's probably on the third floor of a small\n building; it's only a few steps from the elevator to her door (p. 52).\n 2. It's within a short walk of a Baskin-Robbins (p. 43). It's not a big,\n upscale store since only a single surly teenager is on duty there.\n 3. It's eighteen blocks from the home of the successful Sharon Bench,\n probably on the poor side of town (p. 24).\n 4. There is a mention of windows, but not French windows or a balcony (p.\n 43).\n 5. It's difficult to find parking places nearby -- Chase has to walk four\n blocks (p. 81).\n\nA couple of days later:\n\n 1. She's on the fifth floor (p. 111).\n 2. The view shows several cars parked on the side of the street, at about\n the same time of day as when Chase had trouble finding parking (p. 111).\n 3. Some nearby buildings have doormen (p. 111), but apparently not hers.\n Several people call unannounced. Her telephone is working, but she gets no\n calls about them (p. 105-110).\n 4. That night, she suddenly has a doorman who calls to screen her\n visitors (p. 116)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree. But I'm not sure Cassie was doing all this by herself. I seem to \nhave the recollection that Margaret was present during some of these \nevents. In fact, with the safe episode, it almost seems as if she's \ndirecting it. I am rereading now and will keep this in mind." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "She didn't just move to a fancier place with her success. She had the same\nupstairs neighbor, Brian Pickins (pp. 85, 250). The hole Gideon Chase made\nto break into her apartment also connects the places (p. 76, 87)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So I wonder what has happened to the personal fortunes of her neighbors. \nThey must have improved for them to continue to live in a swank upscale \napartment. A rising tide lifts all boats?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "After she goes to the South Sea island, the assassin gives her address as\n181 East Arbor Boulevard, apartment 301 and Cassie confirms it (p. 249). The\nfact that it is back on the third floor suggests that it's reverting to a\nlower level since she is not there to maintain focus on it. The doorman may\nalso be gone, since the cultists have managed to kill a tenant and take over\nhis apartment undetected.\n\nIn the end, she seems to have lost her power and she is prematurely aged,\npossibly from burn-out as well as her harrowing experiences. Her apartment\nhas gone back to the west side of town (\"Best of all it was on the east side\nof Kingsport, across town from her old one.\" p. 293). This transition was\nrougher than the others and it seems that in the process all of her\npossessions were lost (p. 292)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I know the bank kept her saftey deposit box by automatically charging her \naccount, but wouldn't her apt have been rerented and her possessions \nliquidated after her extended absence?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There are several other instances of reality-warping in the rest of the\nstory.\n\n 1. People start thinking she is famous before she has even given her\n breakthrough performance (p. 45), and Sharon calls her a famous \nactress the\n day after that performance (p. 89).\n 2. Early on, Cassie is familiar with Mickey the stage manager and asks\n for him by name (p. 58). Later, she doesn't know his name (p. 137). A \nfamous\n star wouldn't know a lowly stage manager, unlike the struggling \nactress she\n was.\n 3. Vince Palma knows her full name and uses it in public (p. 63). Later,\n Cassie is so surprised that Reis has found out her real first name \nthat she\n stutters (p. 146).\n 4. She sees Alexis Cabana as a waitress at Rusterman's (p. 118). Alexis\n doesn't remember acting under that name (or she pretends not to). I don't\n believe this is just a coincidental resemblance. Possibly the past has \nbeen\n warped so that Cassie played the main role (\"By this time you'd be Jane\n Simmons.\" p. 54).\n 5. Cassie hid her diamond necklace in her hotel room and the next morning\n finds it in a room safe she doesn't remember using (p. 152-153). I believe\n she created the room safe overnight out of her wish to have a more secure\n place for her jewels.\n 6. She calls Sharon from the South Sea island at her breakfast time (p.\n 236), which would be nearly Sharon's lunch time because Cassie is a late\n riser (\"I get up at eleven, don't I, Margaret?\" p. 139). There is \nalmost no\n time difference, which is impossible if Sharon is really back in the \nstates.\n I believe Cassie has time-warped this call. It's possible that some \nsort of\n time-warping is available on the islands and that Reis makes use of it,\n because he acts so quickly to find Cassie almost as soon as she is \nrecruited\n by Chase (\"This afternoon I found my director.\" p. 66). There seems to \nbe a\n connection between Woldercan, where ethermail messages can arrive out of\n causality order (pp. 18-19, 298), and the Chtulhu-ruled islands. \n(Woldercan\n is the name of a city where a pagan god was worshipped with human \nsacrifices\n in \"The Circus of Dr. Lao\", so a link is definitely implied). Former\n ambassador Klauser also says that time is an illusion (p. 298).\n\nIn the end, \"Fiona\" was hoping to bring Cassie Casey back (p. 296). She was\ngoing to Woldercan to see Gideon Chase. I doubt he would be able to perform\nthe same trick twice, but he will love her anyway (\"As soon as he spoke, he\nknew that for him no reversal would have the least effect.\" p. 81). There's\na chance for a bittersweet happy ending, but Cassie was still deep in grief\nover Bill/Wally. She may have had a sense of Bill's presence because of the\nlast fading traces of her power which she lost when she got far enough away\nfrom Earth. That would account for her sudden desperate cry: \"Please, oh,\nplease, Wally! Come back to me!\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I know they said Woldercon was really far away, but outside the galaxy? \nWhen I read that, I got the sinking impression she really wasn't going \nthere and was perhaps comitting suicide." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Reis had good intentions, but he had a \"touch of megalomania\" (p. 304) and\nwanted to rule the world (\"I have that island now, but I've seen a better\none. A blue isle in a sea of black. I fight for it every day, and I'll win.\"\np. 125). He did far more harm with his good intentions than the amoral Dr.\nChase, especially when he provoked a fight between the Navy and Cthulhu. I\nwould say that the power of his alchemical wealth was the \"evil guest\" in\nthis story which destroyed both him and Cassie." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Plus I don't understand why he just gave up and surrendered to the \nislanders or devise some way to rescue her. I need to reread that section \nagain.\n\nDan" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mr Thalassocrat", "address": "thalassocrat08 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-25T07:48:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<1bf4dd40810240838m48105531j8e02c373b3f7db03@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 2:08 AM, Dave Tallman wrote:\n Something very strange was going on with Cassie's apartment in this\nstory. There are too many inconsistencies for the explanation to be typos or\nmistakes. I believe the answer is that Cassie was unconsciously warping\nreality. Dr. Chase implied that the change he enabled in her was more than\njust bringing out latent talent: she had been raised to a near-angelic level\nof power. \"It is easy, terribly easy, for someone who has transformed up to\nslip back down\" (p. 100).\n\n 1. In the beginning, Cassie lives on West Arbor (p.81), next to\n apartment 3B (p. 52), so she's in 3A. It's probably on the third floor of a\n small building; it's only a few steps from the elevator to her door (p. 52).\n\n 2. It's within a short walk of a Baskin-Robbins (p. 43). It's not a\n big, upscale store since only a single surly teenager is on duty there.\n 3. It's eighteen blocks from the home of the successful Sharon Bench,\n probably on the poor side of town (p. 24).\n 4. There is a mention of windows, but not French windows or a balcony\n (p. 43).\n 5. It's difficult to find parking places nearby -- Chase has to walk\n four blocks (p. 81).\n\nA couple of days later:\n\n 1. She's on the fifth floor (p. 111).\n 2. The view shows several cars parked on the side of the street, at\n about the same time of day as when Chase had trouble finding parking (p.\n 111).\n 3. Some nearby buildings have doormen (p. 111), but apparently not\n hers. Several people call unannounced. Her telephone is working, but she\n gets no calls about them (p. 105-110).\n 4. That night, she suddenly has a doorman who calls to screen her\n visitors (p. 116).\n\nShe didn't just move to a fancier place with her success. She had the same\nupstairs neighbor, Brian Pickins (pp. 85, 250). The hole Gideon Chase made\nto break into her apartment also connects the places (p. 76, 87).\n\nAfter she goes to the South Sea island, the assassin gives her address as\n181 East Arbor Boulevard, apartment 301 and Cassie confirms it (p. 249). The\nfact that it is back on the third floor suggests that it's reverting to a\nlower level since she is not there to maintain focus on it. The doorman may\nalso be gone, since the cultists have managed to kill a tenant and take over\nhis apartment undetected.\n\nIn the end, she seems to have lost her power and she is prematurely aged,\npossibly from burn-out as well as her harrowing experiences. Her apartment\nhas gone back to the west side of town (\"Best of all it was on the east side\nof Kingsport, across town from her old one.\" p. 293). This transition was\nrougher than the others and it seems that in the process all of her\npossessions were lost (p. 292).\n\nThere are several other instances of reality-warping in the rest of the\nstory.\n\n 1. People start thinking she is famous before she has even given her\n breakthrough performance (p. 45), and Sharon calls her a famous actress the\n day after that performance (p. 89).\n 2. Early on, Cassie is familiar with Mickey the stage manager and asks\n for him by name (p. 58). Later, she doesn't know his name (p. 137). A famous\n star wouldn't know a lowly stage manager, unlike the struggling actress she\n was.\n 3. Vince Palma knows her full name and uses it in public (p. 63).\n Later, Cassie is so surprised that Reis has found out her real first name\n that she stutters (p. 146).\n 4. She sees Alexis Cabana as a waitress at Rusterman's (p. 118). Alexis\n doesn't remember acting under that name (or she pretends not to). I don't\n believe this is just a coincidental resemblance. Possibly the past has been\n warped so that Cassie played the main role (\"By this time you'd be Jane\n Simmons.\" p. 54).\n 5. Cassie hid her diamond necklace in her hotel room and the next\n morning finds it in a room safe she doesn't remember using (p. 152-153). I\n believe she created the room safe overnight out of her wish to have a more\n secure place for her jewels.\n 6. She calls Sharon from the South Sea island at her breakfast time (p.\n 236), which would be nearly Sharon's lunch time because Cassie is a late\n riser (\"I get up at eleven, don't I, Margaret?\" p. 139). There is almost no\n time difference, which is impossible if Sharon is really back in the states.\n I believe Cassie has time-warped this call. It's possible that some sort of\n time-warping is available on the islands and that Reis makes use of it,\n because he acts so quickly to find Cassie almost as soon as she is recruited\n by Chase (\"This afternoon I found my director.\" p. 66). There seems to be a\n connection between Woldercan, where ethermail messages can arrive out of\n causality order (pp. 18-19, 298), and the Chtulhu-ruled islands. (Woldercan\n is the name of a city where a pagan god was worshipped with human sacrifices\n in \"The Circus of Dr. Lao\", so a link is definitely implied). Former\n ambassador Klauser also says that time is an illusion (p. 298).\n\nIn the end, \"Fiona\" was hoping to bring Cassie Casey back (p. 296). She was\ngoing to Woldercan to see Gideon Chase. I doubt he would be able to perform\nthe same trick twice, but he will love her anyway (\"As soon as he spoke, he\nknew that for him no reversal would have the least effect.\" p. 81). There's\na chance for a bittersweet happy ending, but Cassie was still deep in grief\nover Bill/Wally. She may have had a sense of Bill's presence because of the\nlast fading traces of her power which she lost when she got far enough away\nfrom Earth. That would account for her sudden desperate cry: \"Please, oh,\nplease, Wally! Come back to me!\"\n\nReis had good intentions, but he had a \"touch of megalomania\" (p. 304) and\nwanted to rule the world (\"I have that island now, but I've seen a better\none. A blue isle in a sea of black. I fight for it every day, and I'll win.\"\np. 125). He did far more harm with his good intentions than the amoral Dr.\nChase, especially when he provoked a fight between the Navy and Cthulhu. I\nwould say that the power of his alchemical wealth was the \"evil guest\" in\nthis story which destroyed both him and Cassie." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for digging up all of that and putting it together. I'm not totally\nconvinced that Cassie's apartment changes. She actually does have a balcony\nto start off with (p76, down the bottom). It doesn't have to be a\nparticularly deluxe building to have a doorman. In my experience, generally\nvisitors who know which apartment they are going to don't get stopped by\ndoormen, but somebody in a chauffeur's uniform might well be, and of course\nthe driver might simply have asked the doorman which apartment Cassie was\nin. I don't see any particular inconsistencies in the references to parking\ndifficulties etc etc. The only really telling points are the reference to\n\"five floors below\", and the \"East Arbor\" reference by the assassin. These\n*might* just be typos.\n\nOn other time things: If Kololahi is a fictionalised Tonga and Kingsport is\nin MA then the time difference in fall would be about 18 hours, or 6 hours\nwith a day shift (GMT+13 versus GMT-5). This fits with Cassie's observation\nafter being dropped off by Gid at the airport (p225) - in the evening back\nhome, a little after lunch here. If she's having an early breakfast and\nSharon is coming up to lunch-time when they speak, that fits also: her\ncomment about getting up at 11am earlier doesn't mean much (she's playing\nprima donna, I think, and anyway apart from late-night encounters with alien\nbat-people it's likely enough she's getting to bed early in Kololahi).\n\nI wonder if Cassie is hoping Gid can bring Bill back to life, at the end. I\nthink she's hoping he can bring back her mojo, but maybe that as well. Is it\npossible that Bill can astral travel in some way? His appearance as\ntalking-head to Cassie in his limo may not have been just a holo-projection.\nGid seems to have ghosts or spirits of some kind in his hopper; he says\nsomewhere that he's talked with ghosts; maybe he can bring Bill's, somehow." } ] }, { "message_id": "<49030BCB.8000908@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-10-25T12:06:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Thalassocrat wrote:\nThanks for digging up all of that and putting it together. I'm not totally\nconvinced that Cassie's apartment changes. She actually does have a balcony\nto start off with (p76, down the bottom). It doesn't have to be a\nparticularly deluxe building to have a doorman. In my experience, generally\nvisitors who know which apartment they are going to don't get stopped by\ndoormen, but somebody in a chauffeur's uniform might well be, and of course\nthe driver might simply have asked the doorman which apartment Cassie was\nin. I don't see any particular inconsistencies in the references to parking\ndifficulties etc etc. The only really telling points are the reference to\n\"five floors below\", and the \"East Arbor\" reference by the assassin. These\n*might* just be typos.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I suppose most of these things could have natural explanations if we \nreally pushed it. The apartment building could have a bizarre numbering \nscheme such that apartment 301 is on the fifth floor and the twin \napartment next to it is numbered 3B. Maybe the assassin got the address \nwrong and Cassie went along with it because she was afraid to contradict \nsomeone who was pointing a gun at her. Wolfe is normally so careful with \ndetails that I tend to believe such things are clues. He has done \ncharacters with reality-warping powers before -- for example when Horn \nturned a different ring into Seawrack's ring over time." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On other time things: If Kololahi is a fictionalised Tonga and Kingsport is\nin MA then the time difference in fall would be about 18 hours, or 6 hours\nwith a day shift (GMT+13 versus GMT-5). This fits with Cassie's observation\nafter being dropped off by Gid at the airport (p225) - in the evening back\nhome, a little after lunch here. If she's having an early breakfast and\nSharon is coming up to lunch-time when they speak, that fits also: her\ncomment about getting up at 11am earlier doesn't mean much (she's playing\nprima donna, I think, and anyway apart from late-night encounters with alien\nbat-people it's likely enough she's getting to bed early in Kololahi).\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Cassie seems to wake up late whenever she has a chance to, all through \nthe book. I think she would continue this habit when she was treated as \npampered royalty. When Cassie asks for her breakfast after her call to \nSharon, there is a pause as if the hotel staff is confused. Afterwards \nthey say that King Kanoa and his men have been given something to eat, \nbut they don't call it breakfast for them (p. 237-238). I get the sense \nthat her breakfast is not at a normal early hour.\n\nThe phone call went through a dedicated satellite in Clarke orbit (p. \n227). Reis may have installed strange technology from Woldercan to allow \nhim send calls through time, which would help to explain how he can keep \none jump ahead of his enemies. The other people on the island who make \ncell phone calls are Australian tourists who would be close to the same \ntime zone when they called home." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wonder if Cassie is hoping Gid can bring Bill back to life, at the end. I\nthink she's hoping he can bring back her mojo, but maybe that as well. Is it\npossible that Bill can astral travel in some way? His appearance as\ntalking-head to Cassie in his limo may not have been just a holo-projection.\nGid seems to have ghosts or spirits of some kind in his hopper; he says\nsomewhere that he's talked with ghosts; maybe he can bring Bill's, somehow.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's an interesting possibility. I doubt she will get her mojo back, \nbut possibly Gid can get her in touch with Bill's spirit again. (I say \nagain because I think she just lost contact at the end when she calls \nout to him)." } ] }, { "message_id": "<490356F0.1040204@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-10-25T17:27:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<6.2.1.2.1.20081024211515.02c68b20@pop.central.cox.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dan wrote:\nI agree. But I'm not sure Cassie was doing all this by herself. I seem to \nhave the recollection that Margaret was present during some of these \nevents. In fact, with the safe episode, it almost seems as if she's \ndirecting it. I am rereading now and will keep this in mind.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Margaret is probably a werewolf and a spy (I'll post all my reasons in \nanother entry) but I doubt she has extensive magical powers. She does \nknow enough about hotel security that she was able to guess that Cassie \nmight use the hotel safe without resetting the combination. Easter \nSinclair may have done this also -- remember that she had jewelry stolen \nwhile Margaret was in her employ (p. 140). Margaret may have been the thief." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So I wonder what has happened to the personal fortunes of her neighbors. \nThey must have improved for them to continue to live in a swank upscale \napartment. A rising tide lifts all boats?\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Either that or they found themselves with rents they could no longer afford." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I know the bank kept her saftey deposit box by automatically charging her \naccount, but wouldn't her apt have been rerented and her possessions \nliquidated after her extended absence?\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can believe she lost the apartment by not being there to pay rent, but \nit says that her possessions \"mysteriously disappeared\" (p. 292). I take \nthat to mean that the landlords didn't have a good explanation when \nCassie talked to them. I suppose the Squid God cultists who took over \nthe apartment upstairs could have made off with them." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I know they said Woldercon was really far away, but outside the galaxy? \nWhen I read that, I got the sinking impression she really wasn't going \nthere and was perhaps comitting suicide.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "She sent an ethermail to Gid telling him she was coming there. I see no \nreason for such an expensive way to commit suicide as buying a hopper \nand taking off for galaxies unknown. If Woldercan was outside the galaxy \none has to wonder how it was ever found. There's a lot of space out \nthere between galaxies..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Plus I don't understand why he just gave up and surrendered to the \nislanders or devise some way to rescue her. I need to reread that section \nagain.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As king Bill may have felt he had to take personal responsibility for \nthe terrible unexpected collateral damage to the islands he ruled. He \nhas some moral feelings, even though he normally justifies everything he \ndoes for the greater good." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-10-25T17:37:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<490356F0.1040204@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Oct 25, 2008, at 12:27 PM, Dave Tallman wrote:\nI can believe she lost the apartment by not being there to pay rent, \nbut it says that her possessions \"mysteriously disappeared\" (p. \n292). I take that to mean that the landlords didn't have a good \nexplanation when Cassie talked to them. I suppose the Squid God \ncultists who took over the apartment upstairs could have made off \nwith them." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hm.\n\nI took that as an ironic \"mysterious disappearance.\" As in, \"the \nlandlord took everything, sold it on eBay, and then lied about it and \nsaid he had no idea, none whatsoever.\"\n\nPerhaps my view of landlords is jaundiced.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Bryan Alexander", "address": "bryan.alexander at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-25T18:47:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<490356F0.1040204@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can join this discussion at last, now that a library copy of the novel is\nin my hands.And that I've finished Anathem." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Dave Tallman wrote:\nDan wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I agree. But I'm not sure Cassie was doing all this by herself. I seem to\nhave the recollection that Margaret was present during some of these events.\nIn fact, with the safe episode, it almost seems as if she's directing it. I\nam rereading now and will keep this in mind." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Margaret is probably a werewolf and a spy (I'll post all my reasons in\nanother entry) but I doubt she has extensive magical powers. She does know\nenough about hotel security that she was able to guess that Cassie might use\nthe hotel safe without resetting the combination. Easter Sinclair may have\ndone this also -- remember that she had jewelry stolen while Margaret was in\nher employ (p. 140). Margaret may have been the thief.\n\n So I wonder what has happened to the personal fortunes of her neighbors." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "They must have improved for them to continue to live in a swank upscale\napartment. A rising tide lifts all boats?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Either that or they found themselves with rents they could no longer\nafford.\n\n I know the bank kept her saftey deposit box by automatically charging her\naccount, but wouldn't her apt have been rerented and her possessions\nliquidated after her extended absence?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I can believe she lost the apartment by not being there to pay rent, but it\nsays that her possessions \"mysteriously disappeared\" (p. 292). I take that\nto mean that the landlords didn't have a good explanation when Cassie talked\nto them. I suppose the Squid God cultists who took over the apartment\nupstairs could have made off with them.\n\n I know they said Woldercon was really far away, but outside the galaxy?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "When I read that, I got the sinking impression she really wasn't going there\nand was perhaps comitting suicide." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "She sent an ethermail to Gid telling him she was coming there. I see no\nreason for such an expensive way to commit suicide as buying a hopper and\ntaking off for galaxies unknown. If Woldercan was outside the galaxy one has\nto wonder how it was ever found. There's a lot of space out there between\ngalaxies...\n\n Plus I don't understand why he just gave up and surrendered to the\nislanders or devise some way to rescue her. I need to reread that section\nagain." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As king Bill may have felt he had to take personal responsibility for the\nterrible unexpected collateral damage to the islands he ruled. He has some\nmoral feelings, even though he normally justifies everything he does for the\ngreater good.\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mr Thalassocrat", "address": "thalassocrat08 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-10-25T21:52:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<49030BCB.8000908@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Dave Tallman wrote:\n\n\nOn other time things: If Kololahi is a fictionalised Tonga and Kingsport is\nin MA then the time difference in fall would be about 18 hours, or 6 hours\nwith a day shift (GMT+13 versus GMT-5). This fits with Cassie's\nobservation\nafter being dropped off by Gid at the airport (p225) - in the evening back\nhome, a little after lunch here. If she's having an early breakfast and\nSharon is coming up to lunch-time when they speak, that fits also: her\ncomment about getting up at 11am earlier doesn't mean much (she's playing\nprima donna, I think, and anyway apart from late-night encounters with\nalien\nbat-people it's likely enough she's getting to bed early in Kololahi)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Cassie seems to wake up late whenever she has a chance to, all through the\nbook. I think she would continue this habit when she was treated as\npampered royalty. When Cassie asks for her breakfast after her call to\nSharon, there is a pause as if the hotel staff is confused. Afterwards they\nsay that King Kanoa and his men have been given something to eat, but they\ndon't call it breakfast for them (p. 237-238). I get the sense that her\nbreakfast is not at a normal early hour." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Another explanation might be that Sharon is in California. Under the\nKololahi = fictionalised Tonga assumption, that would put her 3 hours ahead\nof Cassie (with a day shift). Sharon connected with the California cult\nsomehow?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The phone call went through a dedicated satellite in Clarke orbit (p. 227).\nReis may have installed strange technology from Woldercan to allow him send\ncalls through time, which would help to explain how he can keep one jump\nahead of his enemies. The other people on the island who make cell phone\ncalls are Australian tourists who would be close to the same time zone when\nthey called home." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Perth would be 5 hours behind Kololahi, so not really much difference to the\nshift versus MA (except the other way, and without the day shift)." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1bf4dd40810270921y261d144k9fb6dd5186658cac@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-10-27T16:21:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cassie's Mobile Home (AEG spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wrote:\nEven with different laws of physics I doubt Gil would think they could\nresurrect the dead. But if she got far enough away and could send an\nethermail she might be able to send Bill messages back in time, and\nmight hope to change the past. From the point of view of an object\nmoving relative to us a long distance away, events that are in the past\nto us can be present or future to it. The paradoxes involved are one\nreason that relativity does not allow FTL travel or messages. Wolfe\ninstead allows FTL and the time paradoxes." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'd like to expand on this theory, which I think may be a key to the book.\nWhen Cassie asks to drive Gid's hopper, she says \"I want to be -- I want to\nmatter. I want to be somebody, not because I'm Wallace Rosenquist's woman or\nbecause I'm Gideon Chase's woman. Because I'm Cassie Casey.\"\n\nOn a superficial reading Cassie is a poor protagonist. She's dragged along\nfrom event to event and she seems to have very little control of the\noutcome. But what if she were able to use a hopper to send a message though\ntime to warn Reis away from his fatal mistake? Then she's the heroine after\nall. It's a self-sacrificing move because she will wipe out herself as she\nis, but if it works she and Bill will be together again, and happy.\n\nCan the past be changed? Cassie gets a clue that it could be possible when\nshe receives the response ethermail from Chase in Woldercan. She realizes\nshe could either send or not send the ethermail being responded to. \"If I\ndon't send mine, his will have to be accounted for in some other way and\nit's liable to get complicated.\" (p. 298). Her message could warn Reis that\neven if he changes his actions in response to the warning the ethermail must\nstill be sent. She may have consulted with Chase on Woldercan and determined\nthat she had to travel far out in space in order to have a chance to get a\nmessage back in time to make a difference.\n\nIt would be a violation of \"Chekov's gun\" principle to allow a powerful\nstory element like time paradoxes without giving them a more important role\nin the plot than an early birth announcement (p. 19) and an early response\nto a travel message (p. 298). Perhaps the many subtle continuity errors I\nfound were the result of Cassie's message attempts as she tried to hit the\nrange. She had to be careful what she wrote, since Bill's enemies could\nmonitor ethermail (p. 18). It might be much easier to produce subtle changes\nthat make no ultimate difference, like changes of address, the existence of\nhotel safes, and the careers of fellow actresses, than big changes that\ncompletely alter one's own past. Cassie, with her enhanced powers and her\nconnection to her future self, may sometimes be able to dimly remember a\ndifferent version of how things happened when everyone else cannot. This\nwould explain why things often seem dreamlike to her, and why she can spot\nthe waitress who was once the actress Alexis Cabana.\n\nBy the end of the book she has not succeeded in saving Bill. But if she\nkeeps it up she may eventually win. That's what I'm going to hope, because\nit turns the whole book around. Brava, Casey! Oh, brava!" } ] } ] }