Subject: (urth) Stingray

From: Nigel Price <nigelaprice at talktalk.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 22:33:59 +0000

As I was writing about evil undersea cities and civilisations in AEG and the
Urth Cycle, one part of my mind facetiously wandered and wondered whether
Gene Wolfe had ever watched the Gerry Anderson puppet show "Stingray" in the
1960s. As I thought whimsically about it, the parallels scattered through
his books became stronger and stranger. Was Seawrack inspired by Marina? Was
the idea of the US Navy attacking the Storm God inspired by the sight of
Troy Tempest and the WASPs attacking Titan and his aquaphibian minions?

No, of course not, it's a silly idea. It's not as if Wolfe ever refers to
puppetry in his stories.

Hang on there, wait a minute...

What about that dream Severian has of the toy theatre and the marionette
versions of himself and Baldander?

Goodness! If I'm right, anything can happen in the next half hour...

Nigel (in a playful mood)

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From: Nigel Price <nigelaprice at talktalk.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:00:41 +0000

Weird but true: Gerry Anderson and Ray Harryhausen were both speakers at the
1987 WorldCon in Brighton, England, which Gene and Rosemary Wolfe also
attended.

Did Wolfe hear Gerry Anderson talk about his work?

Then again, for anyone interested in creating submarine squid deities,
Harryhausen's amusing account of animating the six-limbed giant octopus in
"It came from beneath the sea" might well have been inspirational. (The
octopus only had six limbs because Harryhausen was on a tight budget and an
even tighter timetable. Animating extra limbs takes time, and time is
money!)

Nigel (who is trying to write a serious analysis of AEG - coming soon - but
keeps getting distracted by whimsical notions)

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From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:57:00 +0000

> No, of course not, it's a silly idea. It's not as if Wolfe ever refers to

In The Book of the Short Sun, Horn remembers the following from his 
childhood:

"I once had a toy, a little wooden man in a blue coat who was moved by 
strings. When I played with him, I made him walk and bow, and spoke for him. 
I practiced until I thought myself very clever. One day I saw my mother 
holding the two sticks that held his strings, and my little wooden man 
saluting my youngest sister much more cleverly than I could have made him do 
it, and laughing with his head thrown back, then mourning with his face in 
his hands. I never spoke of it to my mother, but I was angry and ashamed."
On Blue's Waters, pg. 158

Soon he after he was assaulted by the triple-jawed leatherskin---an obvious 
reference to Pinnochio's Dog-fish.

J.

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From: Nigel Price <nigelaprice at talktalk.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:10:14 +0000

Thanks for that, James. I'd forgotten about that marionette reference in
OBW.

There's the story "The Toy Theater" in TIoDDaOSaOS too. That's all about
marionettes.

I started this thread as a sort of joke on myself, but now I'm really
beginning to wonder!

Nigel

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From: Matthew Keeley <matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:08:43 +0000

> I started this thread as a sort of joke on myself, but now I'm really

And "Strange Birds" from the chapbook of the same name. Have we ever
discussed those two stories here? I thought they were pretty good, but
I'm not sure how many people actually ordered the chapbook. Well at
least Mr. Gevers read it:
http://slaughterhousestudios.blogspot.com/2006/05/strange-birds-indeed.html

Minor spoiler
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
"Strange Birds" actually features the return of Stromboli [sic?] from
"The Toy Theater". I guess Wolfe does have a thing for puppets and
puppeteers.

-Matt

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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 18:04:24 +0000

>keeps getting distracted by whimsical notions)

I dug those shows, but need to see them again because I can barely remember them.  Never got around to renting them when I lived across from Le Video, who had all that stuff.

I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call of Cthulu" silent film that was made recently?  It was very good up until the monster showed up, then the whole film went POP.  How can a movie get everything pretty good, then fail on the most important part? Seriously disapointing.

---

From: Adam Thornton <adam at io.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 18:12:39 +0000

On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Son of Witz wrote:

>
> I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call  
> of Cthulu" silent film that was made recently?  It was very good up  
> until the monster showed up, then the whole film went POP.  How can  
> a movie get everything pretty good, then fail on the most important  
> part? Seriously disapointing.

I haven't seen it, but one could argue the novella suffers the same  
flaw. Well, *most* of Lovecraft does.  The reveal is much less scary  
than the build-up, most of the time.  There are of course exceptions.   
"The Color Out of Space" and "The Dreams In the Witch-House" are two  
exceptions that leap to *my* mind.

Adam
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From: John Watkins <john.watkins04 at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 18:21:29 +0000

The Rats in the Walls as well.

On 11/4/08, Adam Thornton <adam at io.com> wrote:
> > I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call of
> Cthulu" silent film that was made recently?  It was very good up until the
> monster showed up, then the whole film went POP.  How can a movie get
> everything pretty good, then fail on the most important part? Seriously
> disapointing.
> >
>
> I haven't seen it, but one could argue the novella suffers the same flaw.
> Well, *most* of Lovecraft does.  The reveal is much less scary than the
> build-up, most of the time.  There are of course exceptions.  "The Color Out
> of Space" and "The Dreams In the Witch-House" are two exceptions that leap
> to *my* mind.
>
> Adam
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>

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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 18:22:04 +0000

>exceptions that leap to *my* mind.

I hear you. that's what I felt when I read it so long ago.
but nonetheless, a movie has an opportunity to deliver something here.  Less would have been more even. but a crude, poorly lit stop motion puppet that looks about 2 feet tall... nah.

---

From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 18:23:40 +0000

>The Rats in the Walls as well.

I picked up the HPL Necronomicon compendium recently.  Figured I'd start with these recommendations as I've heard them mentioned as standouts before.

---

From: Russell Wodell <wrustle at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:16:59 +0000

Well, the slight charm of "Call of Cthulu" lay in pretending that it was
made during the silent era, miniscule budget, duff special effects,
semaphore acting, and all. IMHO, it worked quite well as such.

2008/11/4 Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>

> I dug those shows, but need to see them again because I can barely remember
> them.  Never got around to renting them when I lived across from Le Video,
> who had all that stuff.
>
>

-- 
Russell Wodell

"Quanti canicula ille in fenestra"

1903?1260 Nelson St Vancouver BC V6E 1J7 604.681.5034
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From: Adam Thornton <adam at io.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:17:38 +0000

> The Rats in the Walls as well.

Aw, you're just saying that because my name's Thornton.

Adam
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From: Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:22:59 +0000

you're making me homesick...I live a block away from Le video and they do rule..

???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net

--- On Tue, 11/4/08, Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org> wrote:
From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Subject: Re: (urth) Stingray
To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 10:04 AM

I dug those shows, but need to see them again because I can barely remember
them.  Never got around to renting them when I lived across from Le Video, who
had all that stuff.

I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call of
Cthulu" silent film that was made recently?  It was very good up until the
monster showed up, then the whole film went POP.  How can a movie get everything
pretty good, then fail on the most important part? Seriously disapointing.

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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:57:50 +0000

>???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624

I miss living there so much. The Le Video owner was my landlord. But when they closed their other biz, Stamp Francisco, right below us, an Aerobics Studio opened up.  They promised it would be quite yoga classes, but every day, all day you could hear techno music pounding through the walls. Gung ch gung ch gung ch gung ch gung ch gung ch, etc.  and you'd be on the toilet and hear the spinning instructor yelling "3 - 4 you can do it. 5-6 don't stop now. A little harder now"  Argh. we fought them for 4 months then finally bailed on that scene. That lovely apartment sat empty for at least a year before someone was willing to live with that noise.  Finally, the studio closed and it's a quiet stationary shop now.  I LOVED living there, but I spent too much money on all the tempting restaurants.  and there used to be at least 3 used book shops in a 2 block radius.  dangerous

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From: David Duffy <david.duffy at qimr.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:52:37 +0000

> The Rats in the Walls as well.

And of course _At the Mountains of Madness_.  I haven't got around to reading
John Long _Mountains of Madness: A Scientist's Odyssey in Antarctica_, where
he traverses the same lat/long in the Transantarctic Mountains ;)

-- 
| David Duffy (MBBS PhD)                                         ,-_|\
| email: davidD at qimr.edu.au  ph: INT+61+7+3362-0217 fax: -0101  /     *
| Epidemiology Unit, Queensland Institute of Medical Research   \_,-._/
| 300 Herston Rd, Brisbane, Queensland 4029, Australia  GPG 4D0B994A v

---

From: Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:26:16 +0000

tell me about it..Ebisu, Naan and Curry...Gordos...La Avenida.. Arizmendi...2 beanries...Black Oak books recently closed as did PJ's (awful cajun...)
can"t wait to finish this tour next Saturday at the Warfield and be home for a while,...I haven't even been to the re-opened Academy of Sciences.. 

Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 11:57 AM

>???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624

I miss living there so much. The Le Video owner was my landlord. But when they
closed their other biz, Stamp Francisco, right below us, an Aerobics Studio
opened up.  They promised it would be quite yoga classes, but every day, all day
you could hear techno music pounding through the walls. Gung ch gung ch gung ch
gung ch gung ch gung ch, etc.  and you'd be on the toilet and hear the
spinning instructor yelling "3 - 4 you can do it. 5-6 don't stop now. A
little harder now"  Argh. we fought them for 4 months then finally bailed
on that scene. That lovely apartment sat empty for at least a year before
someone was willing to live with that noise.  Finally, the studio closed and
it's a quiet stationary shop now.  I LOVED living there, but I spent too
much money on all the tempting restaurants.  and there used to be at least 3
used book shops in a 2 block radius.  dangerous 

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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:59:17 +0000

>can"t wait to finish this tour next Saturday at the Warfield and be home for a while,...I haven't even been to the re-opened Academy of Sciences.. 

oh man. now i'm hungry,, and I just ate.  PJ's; can't say I'll miss it, but now Black Oak Books as well. cripes. People don't like old books anymore or something?

I forgot Warfield is open again.  Seems like only yesterday several of my gullible friends bought 5 nights worth of overpriced tix for Phil Lesh "Last Warfield ever shows".  What was that, like 3 months ago?  serves em right for following Lesh around :P  

I'm looking forward to the Academy too.  All reports are that its still jam packed. I'm gonna give it a few months.

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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 03:10:15 +0000

On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Russell Wodell wrote:

> Well, the slight charm of "Call of Cthulu" lay in pretending that it  
> was made during the silent era, miniscule budget, duff special  
> effects, semaphore acting, and all. IMHO, it worked quite well as  
> such.

I sure agree about that.
but anything in der Golem or Nosferatu is scarier.

---

From: Matthew Keeley <matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 03:43:11 +0000

> but anything in der Golem or Nosferatu is scarier.

If we're talking old horror movies, has anyone seen Vampyr?
Technically an early talkie, but there's not much in the way of
dialogue. Highly recommended, and rather disturbing at times. It was a
Criterion release this year, so you can watch a wonderful restored
version.

-Matt

---

From: Tim Walters <walters at doubtfulpalace.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 07:18:26 +0000

> Criterion release this year, so you can watch a wonderful restored

I saw it in the weirdest possible way: performing a live improvised 
soundtrack to it. It seemed really good, but I'm not sure I can trust my 
opinion under the circumstances.

-- 

Tim Walters | The Doubtful Palace | http://doubtfulpalace.com

---

From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 07:37:58 +0000

On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:18 PM, Tim Walters wrote:

> has anyone seen Vampyr?

always meant to.

in the queue.