# Stingray *The Urth list — 21 messages, 10 voices, 03 Nov 2008* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Nigel Price *03 Nov 2008, 22:33* As I was writing about evil undersea cities and civilisations in AEG and the Urth Cycle, one part of my mind facetiously wandered and wondered whether Gene Wolfe had ever watched the Gerry Anderson puppet show "Stingray" in the 1960s. As I thought whimsically about it, the parallels scattered through his books became stronger and stranger. Was Seawrack inspired by Marina? Was the idea of the US Navy attacking the Storm God inspired by the sight of Troy Tempest and the WASPs attacking Titan and his aquaphibian minions? No, of course not, it's a silly idea. It's not as if Wolfe ever refers to puppetry in his stories. Hang on there, wait a minute... What about that dream Severian has of the toy theatre and the marionette versions of himself and Baldander? Goodness! If I'm right, anything can happen in the next half hour... Nigel (in a playful mood) --- ### Nigel Price *03 Nov 2008, 23:00 · follows Nigel Price* Weird but true: Gerry Anderson and Ray Harryhausen were both speakers at the 1987 WorldCon in Brighton, England, which Gene and Rosemary Wolfe also attended. Did Wolfe hear Gerry Anderson talk about his work? Then again, for anyone interested in creating submarine squid deities, Harryhausen's amusing account of animating the six-limbed giant octopus in "It came from beneath the sea" might well have been inspirational. (The octopus only had six limbs because Harryhausen was on a tight budget and an even tighter timetable. Animating extra limbs takes time, and time is money!) Nigel (who is trying to write a serious analysis of AEG - coming soon - but keeps getting distracted by whimsical notions) --- ### James Wynn *03 Nov 2008, 23:57 · in reply to Nigel Price* > No, of course not, it's a silly idea. It's not as if Wolfe ever refers to > puppetry in his stories. In The Book of the Short Sun, Horn remembers the following from his childhood: "I once had a toy, a little wooden man in a blue coat who was moved by strings. When I played with him, I made him walk and bow, and spoke for him. I practiced until I thought myself very clever. One day I saw my mother holding the two sticks that held his strings, and my little wooden man saluting my youngest sister much more cleverly than I could have made him do it, and laughing with his head thrown back, then mourning with his face in his hands. I never spoke of it to my mother, but I was angry and ashamed." On Blue's Waters, pg. 158 Soon he after he was assaulted by the triple-jawed leatherskin---an obvious reference to Pinnochio's Dog-fish. J. --- ### Nigel Price *04 Nov 2008, 00:10 · follows James Wynn* Thanks for that, James. I'd forgotten about that marionette reference in OBW. There's the story "The Toy Theater" in TIoDDaOSaOS too. That's all about marionettes. I started this thread as a sort of joke on myself, but now I'm really beginning to wonder! Nigel --- ### Matthew Keeley *04 Nov 2008, 01:08 · in reply to Nigel Price* > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 7:10 PM, Nigel Price wrote: > Thanks for that, James. I'd forgotten about that marionette reference in > OBW. > > There's the story "The Toy Theater" in TIoDDaOSaOS too. That's all about > marionettes. > > I started this thread as a sort of joke on myself, but now I'm really > beginning to wonder! > > Nigel And "Strange Birds" from the chapbook of the same name. Have we ever discussed those two stories here? I thought they were pretty good, but I'm not sure how many people actually ordered the chapbook. Well at least Mr. Gevers read it: http://slaughterhousestudios.blogspot.com/2006/05/strange-birds-indeed.html Minor spoiler - - - - - - - - - "Strange Birds" actually features the return of Stromboli [sic?] from "The Toy Theater". I guess Wolfe does have a thing for puppets and puppeteers. -Matt --- ### Son of Witz *04 Nov 2008, 18:04 · follows Matthew Keeley* > Nigel (who is trying to write a serious analysis of AEG - coming soon - but > keeps getting distracted by whimsical notions) I dug those shows, but need to see them again because I can barely remember them. Never got around to renting them when I lived across from Le Video, who had all that stuff. I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call of Cthulu" silent film that was made recently? It was very good up until the monster showed up, then the whole film went POP. How can a movie get everything pretty good, then fail on the most important part? Seriously disapointing. --- ### Adam Thornton *04 Nov 2008, 18:12 · in reply to Son of Witz* > On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Son of Witz wrote: > > I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call > of Cthulu" silent film that was made recently? It was very good up > until the monster showed up, then the whole film went POP. How can > a movie get everything pretty good, then fail on the most important > part? Seriously disapointing. I haven't seen it, but one could argue the novella suffers the same flaw. Well, *most* of Lovecraft does. The reveal is much less scary than the build-up, most of the time. There are of course exceptions. "The Color Out of Space" and "The Dreams In the Witch-House" are two exceptions that leap to *my* mind. Adam --- ### John Watkins *04 Nov 2008, 18:21 · in reply to Adam Thornton* The Rats in the Walls as well. > On 11/4/08, Adam Thornton wrote: > > On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Son of Witz wrote: >> I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call of >> Cthulu" silent film that was made recently? It was very good up until the >> monster showed up, then the whole film went POP. How can a movie get >> everything pretty good, then fail on the most important part? Seriously >> disapointing. > I haven't seen it, but one could argue the novella suffers the same flaw. > Well, *most* of Lovecraft does. The reveal is much less scary than the > build-up, most of the time. There are of course exceptions. "The Color Out > of Space" and "The Dreams In the Witch-House" are two exceptions that leap > to *my* mind. > > Adam > _______________________________________________ --- ### Son of Witz *04 Nov 2008, 18:22 · follows John Watkins* >> I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call >> of Cthulu" silent film that was made recently? It was very good up >> until the monster showed up, then the whole film went POP. How can >> a movie get everything pretty good, then fail on the most important >> part? Seriously disapointing. > I haven't seen it, but one could argue the novella suffers the same > flaw. Well, *most* of Lovecraft does. The reveal is much less scary > than the build-up, most of the time. There are of course exceptions. > "The Color Out of Space" and "The Dreams In the Witch-House" are two > exceptions that leap to *my* mind. > > Adam I hear you. that's what I felt when I read it so long ago. but nonetheless, a movie has an opportunity to deliver something here. Less would have been more even. but a crude, poorly lit stop motion puppet that looks about 2 feet tall... nah. --- ### Son of Witz *04 Nov 2008, 18:23 · follows Son of Witz* > The Rats in the Walls as well. I picked up the HPL Necronomicon compendium recently. Figured I'd start with these recommendations as I've heard them mentioned as standouts before. > On 11/4/08, Adam Thornton wrote: >> On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Son of Witz wrote: >>> I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call of >>> Cthulu" silent film that was made recently? It was very good up until the >>> monster showed up, then the whole film went POP. How can a movie get >>> everything pretty good, then fail on the most important part? Seriously >>> disapointing. >> I haven't seen it, but one could argue the novella suffers the same flaw. >> Well, *most* of Lovecraft does. The reveal is much less scary than the >> build-up, most of the time. There are of course exceptions. "The Color Out >> of Space" and "The Dreams In the Witch-House" are two exceptions that leap >> to *my* mind. >> >> Adam >> _______________________________________________ --- ### Russell Wodell *04 Nov 2008, 19:16 · in reply to Son of Witz* Well, the slight charm of "Call of Cthulu" lay in pretending that it was made during the silent era, miniscule budget, duff special effects, semaphore acting, and all. IMHO, it worked quite well as such. 2008/11/4 Son of Witz >> Nigel (who is trying to write a serious analysis of AEG - coming soon - >> but >> keeps getting distracted by whimsical notions) > I dug those shows, but need to see them again because I can barely remember > them. Never got around to renting them when I lived across from Le Video, > who had all that stuff. > > > I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call of > Cthulu" silent film that was made recently? It was very good up until the > monster showed up, then the whole film went POP. How can a movie get > everything pretty good, then fail on the most important part? Seriously > disapointing. > > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Adam Thornton *04 Nov 2008, 19:17 · in reply to John Watkins* > On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:21 PM, John Watkins wrote: > The Rats in the Walls as well. Aw, you're just saying that because my name's Thornton. Adam --- ### Stuart Hamm *04 Nov 2008, 19:22 · in reply to Son of Witz* you're making me homesick...I live a block away from Le video and they do rule.. ???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624 ???? Skype? stuart.hamm myspace.com/stuhamm ? ??? stuarthamm.net --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Son of Witz wrote: > From: Son of Witz > Subject: Re: (urth) Stingray > To: "The Urth Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 10:04 AM > Nigel (who is trying to write a serious analysis of AEG - coming soon - but > keeps getting distracted by whimsical notions) I dug those shows, but need to see them again because I can barely remember them. Never got around to renting them when I lived across from Le Video, who had all that stuff. I haven't read AEG or much Lovecraft, but did anyone see that "Call of Cthulu" silent film that was made recently? It was very good up until the monster showed up, then the whole film went POP. How can a movie get everything pretty good, then fail on the most important part? Seriously disapointing. --- ### Son of Witz *04 Nov 2008, 19:57 · follows Stuart Hamm* > you're making me homesick...I live a block away from Le video and they do rule.. > > ???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624 > ???? Skype? stuart.hamm > myspace.com/stuhamm > ? ??? stuarthamm.net I miss living there so much. The Le Video owner was my landlord. But when they closed their other biz, Stamp Francisco, right below us, an Aerobics Studio opened up. They promised it would be quite yoga classes, but every day, all day you could hear techno music pounding through the walls. Gung ch gung ch gung ch gung ch gung ch gung ch, etc. and you'd be on the toilet and hear the spinning instructor yelling "3 - 4 you can do it. 5-6 don't stop now. A little harder now" Argh. we fought them for 4 months then finally bailed on that scene. That lovely apartment sat empty for at least a year before someone was willing to live with that noise. Finally, the studio closed and it's a quiet stationary shop now. I LOVED living there, but I spent too much money on all the tempting restaurants. and there used to be at least 3 used book shops in a 2 block radius. dangerous --- ### David Duffy *04 Nov 2008, 20:52 · in reply to John Watkins* > On 11/4/08, Adam Thornton wrote: >> I haven't seen it, but one could argue the novella suffers the same flaw. >> Well, *most* of Lovecraft does. The reveal is much less scary than the >> build-up, most of the time. There are of course exceptions. "The Color Out >> of Space" and "The Dreams In the Witch-House" are two exceptions that leap >> to *my* mind. > On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, John Watkins wrote: > The Rats in the Walls as well. And of course _At the Mountains of Madness_. I haven't got around to reading John Long _Mountains of Madness: A Scientist's Odyssey in Antarctica_, where he traverses the same lat/long in the Transantarctic Mountains ;) ``` | David Duffy (MBBS PhD) ,-_|\ | email: davidD at qimr.edu.au ph: INT+61+7+3362-0217 fax: -0101 / * | Epidemiology Unit, Queensland Institute of Medical Research \_,-._/ | 300 Herston Rd, Brisbane, Queensland 4029, Australia GPG 4D0B994A v ``` --- ### Stuart Hamm *04 Nov 2008, 21:26 · in reply to Son of Witz* tell me about it..Ebisu, Naan and Curry...Gordos...La Avenida.. Arizmendi...2 beanries...Black Oak books recently closed as did PJ's (awful cajun...) can"t wait to finish this tour next Saturday at the Warfield and be home for a while,...I haven't even been to the re-opened Academy of Sciences.. ???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624 ???? Skype? stuart.hamm myspace.com/stuhamm ? ??? stuarthamm.net --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Son of Witz wrote: > From: Son of Witz > Subject: Re: (urth) Stingray > To: "The Urth Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 11:57 AM > you're making me homesick...I live a block away from Le video and they > do rule.. > > ???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624 > ???? Skype? stuart.hamm > myspace.com/stuhamm > ? ??? stuarthamm.net I miss living there so much. The Le Video owner was my landlord. But when they closed their other biz, Stamp Francisco, right below us, an Aerobics Studio opened up. They promised it would be quite yoga classes, but every day, all day you could hear techno music pounding through the walls. Gung ch gung ch gung ch gung ch gung ch gung ch, etc. and you'd be on the toilet and hear the spinning instructor yelling "3 - 4 you can do it. 5-6 don't stop now. A little harder now" Argh. we fought them for 4 months then finally bailed on that scene. That lovely apartment sat empty for at least a year before someone was willing to live with that noise. Finally, the studio closed and it's a quiet stationary shop now. I LOVED living there, but I spent too much money on all the tempting restaurants. and there used to be at least 3 used book shops in a 2 block radius. dangerous --- ### Son of Witz *04 Nov 2008, 21:59 · follows Stuart Hamm* > tell me about it..Ebisu, Naan and Curry...Gordos...La Avenida.. Arizmendi...2 beanries...Black Oak books recently closed as did PJ's (awful cajun...) > can"t wait to finish this tour next Saturday at the Warfield and be home for a while,...I haven't even been to the re-opened Academy of Sciences.. oh man. now i'm hungry,, and I just ate. PJ's; can't say I'll miss it, but now Black Oak Books as well. cripes. People don't like old books anymore or something? I forgot Warfield is open again. Seems like only yesterday several of my gullible friends bought 5 nights worth of overpriced tix for Phil Lesh "Last Warfield ever shows". What was that, like 3 months ago? serves em right for following Lesh around :P I'm looking forward to the Academy too. All reports are that its still jam packed. I'm gonna give it a few months. --- ### Son of Witz *05 Nov 2008, 03:10 · in reply to Russell Wodell* > On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Russell Wodell wrote: > Well, the slight charm of "Call of Cthulu" lay in pretending that it > was made during the silent era, miniscule budget, duff special > effects, semaphore acting, and all. IMHO, it worked quite well as > such. I sure agree about that. but anything in der Golem or Nosferatu is scarier. --- ### Matthew Keeley *05 Nov 2008, 03:43 · in reply to Son of Witz* > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Son of Witz wrote: > > I sure agree about that. > but anything in der Golem or Nosferatu is scarier. If we're talking old horror movies, has anyone seen Vampyr? Technically an early talkie, but there's not much in the way of dialogue. Highly recommended, and rather disturbing at times. It was a Criterion release this year, so you can watch a wonderful restored version. -Matt --- ### Tim Walters *05 Nov 2008, 07:18 · in reply to Matthew Keeley* > Matthew Keeley wrote: > If we're talking old horror movies, has anyone seen Vampyr? > Technically an early talkie, but there's not much in the way of > dialogue. Highly recommended, and rather disturbing at times. It was a > Criterion release this year, so you can watch a wonderful restored > version. I saw it in the weirdest possible way: performing a live improvised soundtrack to it. It seemed really good, but I'm not sure I can trust my opinion under the circumstances. ``` Tim Walters | The Doubtful Palace | http://doubtfulpalace.com ``` --- ### Son of Witz *05 Nov 2008, 07:37 · in reply to Tim Walters* > On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:18 PM, Tim Walters wrote: > has anyone seen Vampyr? always meant to. in the queue. ---