{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5224", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5224, "subject": "Where was Rian born? (AEG Spoilers)", "messages": 16, "voices": 9, "first": "2008-11-15T22:14:12+00:00", "last": "2008-12-12T20:19:51+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<491F49B4.9020906@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-11-15T22:14:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Where was Rian born? (AEG Spoilers)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I now think that Norma Peiper was the wife who accompanied Reis to \nWoldercan (p. 301). There's no need to postulate a second wife, because \nthe timing can be made to work with one:\n\n 1. There is no mention of a child in that picture (p. 301). Rian was\n probably conceived on Woldercan, or shortly before they arrived.\n 2. Their son Rian is sixteen (p. 276),\n 3. The marriage only lasted two years(p. 176)\n 4. Bill's appointment as ambassador to Woldercan only recently ended,\n during the term of the current President (p. 19).\n 5. He has been back at least a year (to see Rian's football games, p.\n 277), probably more.\n 6. He was appointed ambassador during Instrup's first term and\n continued during his second term (pp. 15-16).\n 7. There was at least one other intervening President before the one\n Chase talked to. He says \"an earlier president\" not \"the previous\n president\" (p. 18).\n 8. So Bill served at least 12 years, before being replaced by the new\n President's \"own man\" (p. 19).\n 9. It would also be difficult to get much medical help for a child\n with a defective heart valve (p. 277) in a place so remote that\n even tampons are hard to get (p. 298).\n 10. \"Nobody could cure him\" (p. 26) implies lots of doctors, so we can\n assume Rian was raised on Earth.\n 11. Norma must have taken Rian back to Earth and divorced Bill.\n 12. In the picture where he announces he will retire (p. 14), Reis\n seems to be alone.\n\nSharon was anxious to keep Norma's identity secret (\"You won't even try \nto find out. And if you do -- if he tells you, for example -- you won't \nbrace them with it\" p. 25). Why was this? There may be any number of \nreasons, but if Norma is actually a rich woman who doesn't need acting \nto make a living she may not want her secret exposed since it would make \npeople take her acting less seriously.\n\nSharon may also be privy to secrets because she is working for Reis, and \ndoesn't want it to get back to him that she told Cassie anything. If so, \nReis has almost supernatural foreknowledge, since Cassie had barely been \nrecruited at time Sharon talks with her. I prefer the simpler \"rich \nwoman incognito\" theory. The fact that Sharon asks such a clueless \nquestion to Cassie as whether there is a connection between Rosenquist \nand Reis (p. 237) suggests she is more in the dark than anyone who \nworked for him would be." } ] }, { "message_id": "<830146C0F4CA44718B7BDFE07A320130@GATEWAY>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-11-17T01:49:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<491F49B4.9020906@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Here's my report from WindyCon 35:\n\nFirst of all, Nigel Price is in the hospital. He was taken by ambulance on \nSaturday morning when he could not get out of bed. He does not seem to be in \nimminent danger now (last I heard). But, the doctors were apparently not \ncertain of the cause of his problem as of last night. They were to run \nadditional tests this morning that hopefully will be more conclusive. Those \nthat will, please keep him in your prayers. It is not clear whether he will \neven be able to fly home as planned on Monday.\n\nI arrived at the Westin in Lombard at around 8pm Friday. Michael \nAndre-Driussi, Nigel, and Gene's daughter, Teri, were chatting in the lobby. \nNigel had been there all day. He had hung out with Gene, Rosemary, and Teri \nmost of the afternoon. Gene had panel discussion on children in warfare \naround 4:30pm, but there was an awful screw-up about the room location (I \nwon't point fingers except to say it wasn't Gene's fault), so he arrived \nquite late for it. Then the four of them went to supper.\n\nWe sat their chatting about Wolfe, movies, books, Chicago, the convention, \nand other things until midnight. We also discussed Michael's and Nigel's \npanel on the future of warfare and it's presentation in science fiction. \nNigel in particular was very excited about it. Michael, Nigel, and I agreed \nto meet in the lobby at 8am and go to breakfast.\n\nI was met Michael in lobby at 10 to 8. We called Nigel's room but he didn't \nanswer. We decided he was on his way or showering so we chatted as we waited \nuntil 8. I called again at 8 sharp but this time the phone picked up and \nhung up. Uh oh. Nigel must have decided to sleep in. Not surprising with the \n6 hour time difference with England. So we went on to breakfast. We spent \nabout an hour and a half talking about books and politics. Walking back to \nthe hotel just before 10, there was an ambulance out front. We tut-tutted in \nsympathy went on in. Still no Nigel. We presumed he was boning up for the \npanel. At 10 there was a scheduled book discussion on \"Soldier of the Mist\" \nwith the chicago-sf.org book club. Michael was greeted as a celebrity, and \nit was additionally lucky for them that he was there, because he did a good \njob of reminding me to stick to the topic of SoTM and to avoid bringing up \nthe later or other novels in the discussion.\n\nAt 11, Michael had book signings. I trolled the con. Still no Nigel. The \npanel discussion was at noon. Wolfe was participating as well. Rosemary and \nTeri were there too. Still no Nigel. I went to the concierge and called his \nroom and searched the whole con (perhaps there was another room mix-up like \nthe one on Friday). I met Teri on the way back. She told me to go on back \nand she would try to find him. Here is where Teri proved that she had snap \nthat was just out of reach of Michael and me. She realized that no one \ntravels 1000 miles spending 1000s of $ to be on a panel and not show up. She \nwent to Security and gave them Nigel's room number telling them she was \nconcerned for him. Indeed, they told her, he had been taken to the hospital \nby ambulance that morning. My call had awakened him, but he couldn't reach \nthe phone in time. Eventually, he managed to dial zero for the front desk.\n\nShe came back and quietly told me what was going on and that she was going \nto go to the hospital to check on him. She asked me to call her in 10 \nminutes so she would have my phone number. After the panel discussion I let \neveryone know why Nigel couldn't make it.\n\nOnly family members could get into the ER to see Nigel, so Teri told them \nshe was his niece. She got apprised of what the doctors knew so far and \ncalled Nigel's wife. She helped negotiate the information to ensure his \ninsurance would cover all his expenses. Nigel had rented a car so he could \nsee some more of Chicago while he was there. So Teri arranged for Michael to \ndrive it back when he went to the airport on Sunday. Essentially, she took \nNigel completely under her wing and became his proxy-wife.\n\nAfter the panel Gene, Rosemary, and Michael went on to Harry Caray's for \nlunch. As they entered the restaurant (connected to the lobby), Michael \nmotioned for me to join them. About 20 minutes later, Teri joined us as \nwell.\n\nLunch ended a little after 3pm. The rest of the day was spent chatting with \nMichael and Teri and wandering aimlessly and happily around the con. Teri \nwent back in the evening to check on Nigel. And I spent the rest of the \nevening in the lobby watching the people in costume pass by and talking to \nMichael about movies.\n\nAt 11pm, Michael and I agreed to meet for breakfast at 8am on Sunday which \nwe did. Coming back to the lobby, we met Gene and Rosemary coming out of \nHarry Caray's. He admonished us for not joining them for breakfast. Of \ncourse, if we had realized that that was an option, we surely would have. I \ntook some pictures with Gene, Rosemary, and Michael then. Unfortunately I \nhad to leave at 10am to catch my shuttle for the airport.\n\nI probably did less \"con\" activities at WindyCon than at any convention I've \never been to, but I doubt I've every had so much fun.\n\nJ " } ] }, { "message_id": "<9216.67.142.130.46.1226889454.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-11-17T02:37:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<830146C0F4CA44718B7BDFE07A320130@GATEWAY>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh my! Poor Nigel!\n\nI do hope he is OK, are you following up?\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Here's my report from WindyCon 35:\n\nFirst of all, Nigel Price is in the hospital. He was taken by ambulance on\nSaturday morning when he could not get out of bed. He does not seem to be\nin\nimminent danger now (last I heard). But, the doctors were apparently not\ncertain of the cause of his problem as of last night. They were to run\nadditional tests this morning that hopefully will be more conclusive.\nThose\nthat will, please keep him in your prayers. It is not clear whether he\nwill\neven be able to fly home as planned on Monday.\n\nI arrived at the Westin in Lombard at around 8pm Friday. Michael\nAndre-Driussi, Nigel, and Gene's daughter, Teri, were chatting in the\nlobby.\nNigel had been there all day. He had hung out with Gene, Rosemary, and\nTeri\nmost of the afternoon. Gene had panel discussion on children in warfare\naround 4:30pm, but there was an awful screw-up about the room location (I\nwon't point fingers except to say it wasn't Gene's fault), so he arrived\nquite late for it. Then the four of them went to supper.\n\nWe sat their chatting about Wolfe, movies, books, Chicago, the convention,\nand other things until midnight. We also discussed Michael's and Nigel's\npanel on the future of warfare and it's presentation in science fiction.\nNigel in particular was very excited about it. Michael, Nigel, and I\nagreed\nto meet in the lobby at 8am and go to breakfast.\n\nI was met Michael in lobby at 10 to 8. We called Nigel's room but he\ndidn't\nanswer. We decided he was on his way or showering so we chatted as we\nwaited\nuntil 8. I called again at 8 sharp but this time the phone picked up and\nhung up. Uh oh. Nigel must have decided to sleep in. Not surprising with\nthe\n6 hour time difference with England. So we went on to breakfast. We spent\nabout an hour and a half talking about books and politics. Walking back to\nthe hotel just before 10, there was an ambulance out front. We tut-tutted\nin\nsympathy went on in. Still no Nigel. We presumed he was boning up for the\npanel. At 10 there was a scheduled book discussion on \"Soldier of the\nMist\"\nwith the chicago-sf.org book club. Michael was greeted as a celebrity, and\nit was additionally lucky for them that he was there, because he did a\ngood\njob of reminding me to stick to the topic of SoTM and to avoid bringing up\nthe later or other novels in the discussion.\n\nAt 11, Michael had book signings. I trolled the con. Still no Nigel. The\npanel discussion was at noon. Wolfe was participating as well. Rosemary\nand\nTeri were there too. Still no Nigel. I went to the concierge and called\nhis\nroom and searched the whole con (perhaps there was another room mix-up\nlike\nthe one on Friday). I met Teri on the way back. She told me to go on back\nand she would try to find him. Here is where Teri proved that she had snap\nthat was just out of reach of Michael and me. She realized that no one\ntravels 1000 miles spending 1000s of $ to be on a panel and not show up.\nShe\nwent to Security and gave them Nigel's room number telling them she was\nconcerned for him. Indeed, they told her, he had been taken to the\nhospital\nby ambulance that morning. My call had awakened him, but he couldn't reach\nthe phone in time. Eventually, he managed to dial zero for the front desk.\n\nShe came back and quietly told me what was going on and that she was going\nto go to the hospital to check on him. She asked me to call her in 10\nminutes so she would have my phone number. After the panel discussion I\nlet\neveryone know why Nigel couldn't make it.\n\nOnly family members could get into the ER to see Nigel, so Teri told them\nshe was his niece. She got apprised of what the doctors knew so far and\ncalled Nigel's wife. She helped negotiate the information to ensure his\ninsurance would cover all his expenses. Nigel had rented a car so he could\nsee some more of Chicago while he was there. So Teri arranged for Michael\nto\ndrive it back when he went to the airport on Sunday. Essentially, she took\nNigel completely under her wing and became his proxy-wife.\n\nAfter the panel Gene, Rosemary, and Michael went on to Harry Caray's for\nlunch. As they entered the restaurant (connected to the lobby), Michael\nmotioned for me to join them. About 20 minutes later, Teri joined us as\nwell.\n\nLunch ended a little after 3pm. The rest of the day was spent chatting\nwith\nMichael and Teri and wandering aimlessly and happily around the con. Teri\nwent back in the evening to check on Nigel. And I spent the rest of the\nevening in the lobby watching the people in costume pass by and talking to\nMichael about movies.\n\nAt 11pm, Michael and I agreed to meet for breakfast at 8am on Sunday which\nwe did. Coming back to the lobby, we met Gene and Rosemary coming out of\nHarry Caray's. He admonished us for not joining them for breakfast. Of\ncourse, if we had realized that that was an option, we surely would have.\nI\ntook some pictures with Gene, Rosemary, and Michael then. Unfortunately I\nhad to leave at 10am to catch my shuttle for the airport.\n\nI probably did less \"con\" activities at WindyCon than at any convention\nI've\never been to, but I doubt I've every had so much fun.\n\nJ\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10811162027p196cbf0dkf15bf65f634ac068@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-11-17T04:27:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<9216.67.142.130.46.1226889454.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:37 PM, wrote:\nOh my! Poor Nigel!\n\nI do hope he is OK, are you following up?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, my prayers are certainly with him. Let's hope it's a one-time\nand fixable problem.\n\nDo keep us apprised.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<920655EA0B1047109EA5D00933D60782@GATEWAY>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-11-17T17:47:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<9216.67.142.130.46.1226889454.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Oh my! Poor Nigel!\nI do hope he is OK, are you following up?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I heard from Teri this morning. They still haven't arrived at a diagnosis.\n\nIt seems Nigel won't get to go home *at least* until Wednesday.\n\nMeanwhile, the Wolfe clan has checked him out of his hotel room, boxed up \nhis stuff, and his visiting him (Gene & Rosemary said they intended to plan \nto go see him yesterday).\n\nThis seems to be developing like a Wolfe story. First Teri tells a lie to \nthe hospital that she is Nigel's niece. Then the Wolfes begin caring for him \nlike family. No doubt, before he flies off to his island in the East, we \nwill discover that Nigel is the clone of Rosemary's phantom twin.\n\nJ. " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2008-11-17T18:34:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<920655EA0B1047109EA5D00933D60782@GATEWAY>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "James Wynn writes: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Oh my! Poor Nigel!\nI do hope he is OK, are you following up? " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I heard from Teri this morning. They still haven't arrived at a diagnosis. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\nThank you for doing all this, James \n\n - hartshorn \n\n\nhttp://www.thenightland.co.uk \n\n01273-488272 / 0777-214-9545 " } ] }, { "message_id": "<1593.67.142.130.17.1226948582.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-11-17T19:03:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<920655EA0B1047109EA5D00933D60782@GATEWAY>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I didn't even know that Rosemary *had* a phanton twin.\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Oh my! Poor Nigel!\nI do hope he is OK, are you following up?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I heard from Teri this morning. They still haven't arrived at a diagnosis.\n\nIt seems Nigel won't get to go home *at least* until Wednesday.\n\nMeanwhile, the Wolfe clan has checked him out of his hotel room, boxed up\nhis stuff, and his visiting him (Gene & Rosemary said they intended to\nplan\nto go see him yesterday).\n\nThis seems to be developing like a Wolfe story. First Teri tells a lie to\nthe hospital that she is Nigel's niece. Then the Wolfes begin caring for\nhim\nlike family. No doubt, before he flies off to his island in the East, we\nwill discover that Nigel is the clone of Rosemary's phantom twin.\n\nJ.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10811171148n57937809me53f0a2b41738235@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-11-17T19:48:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<1593.67.142.130.17.1226948582.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 2:03 PM, wrote:\nI didn't even know that Rosemary *had* a phanton twin." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, it's only one theory. *Mine* involves time travel.\n\nThanks for keeping us posted.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<14991.72.171.0.143.1226952606.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-11-17T20:10:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10811171148n57937809me53f0a2b41738235@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nigel and I had an exchange of letters before he left for WindyCon which\nmakes this strange situation look even stranger, but I think I would need\nhis permission before going into this any further.\n\nAre we talking back and forth time travel or sideways?\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 2:03 PM, wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I didn't even know that Rosemary *had* a phanton twin." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, it's only one theory. *Mine* involves time travel.\n\nThanks for keeping us posted.\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-11-17T21:08:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<920655EA0B1047109EA5D00933D60782@GATEWAY>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Nov 17, 2008, at 12:47 PM, James Wynn wrote:\nOh my! Poor Nigel!\nI do hope he is OK, are you following up?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I heard from Teri this morning. They still haven't arrived at a \ndiagnosis.\n\nIt seems Nigel won't get to go home *at least* until Wednesday.\n\nMeanwhile, the Wolfe clan has checked him out of his hotel room, \nboxed up his stuff, and his visiting him (Gene & Rosemary said they \nintended to plan to go see him yesterday).\n\nThis seems to be developing like a Wolfe story. First Teri tells a \nlie to the hospital that she is Nigel's niece. Then the Wolfes begin \ncaring for him like family. No doubt, before he flies off to his \nisland in the East, we will discover that Nigel is the clone of \nRosemary's phantom twin." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Someone will probably end up with his or her throat torn out.\n\nIt's not a Wolfe story without at least one werewolf.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<8EDDC95EFDA44290808AEBA11948335F@GATEWAY>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-11-18T00:41:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Someone will probably end up with his or her throat torn out." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Maybe so. I do think I'm getting a scratchy throat!" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370811171649h7800f90fy1d7a52324a47e1fd@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-11-18T00:49:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) WindyCon 35", "in_reply_to": "<8EDDC95EFDA44290808AEBA11948335F@GATEWAY>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:41 PM, James Wynn wrote:\nMaybe so. I do think I'm getting a scratchy throat!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ahhh... Con crud..." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\n\nI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a restaurant\nand, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand Island Dressing and\na bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett" } ] }, { "message_id": "<005301c95c1e$dcd09040$6acf4a0c@rclackey>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2008-12-12T05:59:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Where was Rian born? (AEG Spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<491F49B4.9020906@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I recently got around to reading AEG, then went back and read all the posts\nabout it I had skipped. With those posts in mind--particularly Dave\nTallman's, because he has done most of the heavy lifting so far--I read the\nbook again, very s l o w l y, with attention to details." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Back on 11-15-08 Dave Tallman wrote:\nI now think that Norma Peiper was the wife who accompanied Reis to\nWoldercan (p. 301). There's no need to postulate a second wife, because\nthe timing can be made to work with one:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I see no good reason to suppose Norma was ever married to Reis, but the\napparition of Vince on that island as some sort of manifistation of a\nvolcano gives me enough pause that I can't just dismiss it. Reis said he had\nbeen married twice. (p.-275)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " 1. There is no mention of a child in that picture (p. 301). Rian was\n probably conceived on Woldercan, or shortly before they arrived." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Rian must have been born on Earth years before Reis went to Woldercan. See\nbelow." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " 2. Their son Rian is sixteen (p. 276),\n 3. The marriage only lasted two years(p. 176)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, Norma's marriage did." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " 4. Bill's appointment as ambassador to Woldercan only recently ended,\n during the term of the current President (p. 19).\n 5. He has been back at least a year (to see Rian's football games, p.\n 277), probably more." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right. Reis hired Gid for some job two years earlier (120), and the U.S.\nNavy had been looking for the gold for two years (273). Reis had probably\nbeen back for about three years." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " 6. He was appointed ambassador during Instrup's first term and\n continued during his second term (pp. 15-16).\n 7. There was at least one other intervening President before the one\n Chase talked to. He says \"an earlier president\" not \"the previous\n president\" (p. 18)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, there was no intervening president, as determined by the order of\nambassadors:\n\n1st Ambassador, Bob Chase (296)\n2nd Harold Klauser (18, 296)\n3rd William Reis (277)\n4th unnamed (222), who succeeded Reis and was replaced by\n5th Gideon Chase (293)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " 8. So Bill served at least 12 years, before being replaced by the new\n President's \"own man\" (p. 19)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reis served just eight years. (95)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " 9. It would also be difficult to get much medical help for a child\n with a defective heart valve (p. 277) in a place so remote that\n even tampons are hard to get (p. 298).\n 10. \"Nobody could cure him\" (p. 26) implies lots of doctors, so we can\n assume Rian was raised on Earth.\n 11. Norma must have taken Rian back to Earth and divorced Bill.\n 12. In the picture where he announces he will retire (p. 14), Reis\n seems to be alone." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right, but he had a wife when he came to Woldercan, per that picture you\nmentioned on p.-301, but the wife wasn't in that picture either. Not\nconclusive. I think Reis likely was divorced from his first wife before he\nwent to Woldercan, and she was left filthy rich. Rian's mother had to be\nrich to have hired Gid to fix the boy's heart. (277) She probably stayed on\nEarth to raise the sickly boy. The wife mentioned in the picture may have\nbeen his second wife.\n\nSo, Rian would have been about five years old when Reis went to Woldercan.\n\nBut, we are left with the question of just when Gid cured the kid. If Reis\nactually paid for it, that may have been the occasion, mentioned above, two\nyears earlier when he hired Gid for an unspecified consultation. Reis said\nthe boy was \"very ill as a child.\" Is 14 too old to call him a child? I\nsuppose not.\n\nThen there is a problem with Gid's age. Sharon said he looked to be in his\nmid-thirties. (25) Klauser said he had been a \"small boy\" when he last saw\nhim. (297) 5 or 6 years old? But if you add up the elapsed ambassadorial\nterms and add another 7-9 years to that, Gid should be only in his\nmid-twenties. And he's a Ph.D. He seems to be older than the numbers allow.\nAnd I don't think Wolfe made a mistake here. I think something is going on\nwith sequential time, as hinted at by the peculiar nature of ethermail\nbetween Earth and Woldercan. Maybe travel between them has a warping effect?\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20081212112224.E54CE803A@diego.dreamhost.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar / UKG", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2008-12-12T11:22:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Where was Rian born? (AEG Spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<005301c95c1e$dcd09040$6acf4a0c@rclackey>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 05:59 12/12/2008, Roy wrote:\nthe apparition of Vince on that island as some sort of manifistation \nof a volcano" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I took that to be the \"real\" volcano god, assuming Vince's form \nbecause that was how Cassie was accustomed to seeing the god in the \nshow. (Alternatively, Vince's show costume was an extremely accurate \nportrayal of the god's natural appearance.) On p286 Cassie realizes \n\"You're not really Vince, are you? You just look like him.\"\n\nAdmittedly, we've had no real cause to believe up till then that \nthere is a \"real\" volcano god; but given Cassie's experience with the \nshark god, there sems no reason to doubt it either. Of course, in \nboth cases no-one else witnesses the apparition.\n\nbest wishes,\n\nMo\n\n\n\n\nMo Holkar\nUndying King Games\nmo at ukg.co.uk\nhttp://www.ukg.co.uk " } ] }, { "message_id": "<494263DB.9090609@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-12-12T13:15:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Where was Rian born? (AEG Spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<005301c95c1e$dcd09040$6acf4a0c@rclackey>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nI see no good reason to suppose Norma was ever married to Reis, but the\napparition of Vince on that island as some sort of manifistation of a\nvolcano gives me enough pause that I can't just dismiss it. Reis said he had\nbeen married twice. (p.-275)\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You are right: there have to be two wives, and the mother of Rian is \nprobably not the one who went with Reis to Woldercan. Norma is still an \nexcellent candidate for the first wife, the mother of Rian. It had to be \nsomeone Sharon knew that Cassie knew, since Sharon asked Cassie to \npromise not to \"brace them with it\" (p. 25). Sharon did a gossip show on \nTV, and she might easily have found out that actress Norma was the \nex-wife of a rich, former ambassador. Norma might have threatened her to \nprevent her from revealing this." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "No, there was no intervening president, as determined by the order of\nambassadors:\n\n1st Ambassador, Bob Chase (296)\n2nd Harold Klauser (18, 296)\n3rd William Reis (277)\n4th unnamed (222), who succeeded Reis and was replaced by\n5th Gideon Chase (293)\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There's no absolute correspondence between the appointments of \nambassadors and changes of presidential administration. An ambassador \nmight be left in by a new president, or changed during his term. We knew \nReis served 8 years (p. 95, good catch), and that Ingstrup ran for a \nsecond term after appointing Reis (pp. 15-16). We don't know that \nIngstrup won re-election, but it may be simpler to assume he did." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But, we are left with the question of just when Gid cured the kid. If Reis\nactually paid for it, that may have been the occasion, mentioned above, two\nyears earlier when he hired Gid for an unspecified consultation. Reis said\nthe boy was \"very ill as a child.\" Is 14 too old to call him a child? I\nsuppose not.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, it seems the ex-wife consulted Gideon on her own first. Reis had \nnever heard of Chase until then. The consultation by Reis was later, and \nmight have been the oil-field deal (p. 26). Reis had all sorts of \nbusiness interests." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Then there is a problem with Gid's age. Sharon said he looked to be in his\nmid-thirties. (25) Klauser said he had been a \"small boy\" when he last saw\nhim. (297) 5 or 6 years old? But if you add up the elapsed ambassadorial\nterms and add another 7-9 years to that, Gid should be only in his\nmid-twenties. And he's a Ph.D. He seems to be older than the numbers allow.\nAnd I don't think Wolfe made a mistake here. I think something is going on\nwith sequential time, as hinted at by the peculiar nature of ethermail\nbetween Earth and Woldercan. Maybe travel between them has a warping effect?\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Gid may develop faster as an alien half-breed (ala the \"Dunwich \nHorror\"). We also don't really know how long Klauser's term was." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4942C767.7090204@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-12-12T20:19:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Where was Rian born? (AEG Spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "<20081212112224.E54CE803A@diego.dreamhost.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mo Holkar wrote:\nI took that to be the \"real\" volcano god, assuming Vince's form \nbecause that was how Cassie was accustomed to seeing the god in the \nshow. (Alternatively, Vince's show costume was an extremely accurate \nportrayal of the god's natural appearance.) On p286 Cassie realizes \n\"You're not really Vince, are you? You just look like him.\"\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It could also be the spirit of Bill Reis, appearing as Vince Palma to \navoid causing her too much grief. There are many connections between \nReis and Palma; he seems almost like an alter-ego (but they are seen \ntogether on p. 68, so it's not an identity).\n\nHere's another image connection I just noticed:\n\"The high king's wife was the high queen... Her head was on fire.\" (p. 226)\n\"..his headdress... was now of leaping flame.\" (P. 285)." } ] } ] }