Subject: (urth) Where was Rian born? (AEG Spoilers)

From: Dave Tallman <davetallman at msn.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:14:12 +0000

I now think that Norma Peiper was the wife who accompanied Reis to 
Woldercan (p. 301). There's no need to postulate a second wife, because 
the timing can be made to work with one:

   1. There is no mention of a child in that picture (p. 301). Rian was
      probably conceived on Woldercan, or shortly before they arrived.
   2. Their son Rian is sixteen (p. 276),
   3. The marriage only lasted two years(p. 176)
   4. Bill's appointment as ambassador to Woldercan only recently ended,
      during the term of the current President (p. 19).
   5. He has been back at least a year (to see Rian's football games, p.
      277), probably more.
   6. He was appointed ambassador during Instrup's first term and
      continued during his second term (pp. 15-16).
   7. There was at least one other intervening President before the one
      Chase talked to. He says "an earlier president" not "the previous
      president" (p. 18).
   8. So Bill served at least 12 years, before being replaced by the new
      President's "own man" (p. 19).
   9. It would also be difficult to get much medical help for a child
      with a defective heart valve (p. 277) in a place so remote that
      even tampons are hard to get (p. 298).
  10. "Nobody could cure him" (p. 26) implies lots of doctors, so we can
      assume Rian was raised on Earth.
  11. Norma must have taken Rian back to Earth and divorced Bill.
  12. In the picture where he announces he will retire (p. 14), Reis
      seems to be alone.

Sharon was anxious to keep Norma's identity secret ("You won't even try 
to find out. And if you do -- if he tells you, for example -- you won't 
brace them with it" p. 25). Why was this? There may be any number of 
reasons, but if Norma is actually a rich woman who doesn't need acting 
to make a living she may not want her secret exposed since it would make 
people take her acting less seriously.

Sharon may also be privy to secrets because she is working for Reis, and 
doesn't want it to get back to him that she told Cassie anything. If so, 
Reis has almost supernatural foreknowledge, since Cassie had barely been 
recruited at time Sharon talks with her. I prefer the simpler "rich 
woman incognito" theory. The fact that Sharon asks such a clueless 
question to Cassie as whether there is a connection between Rosenquist 
and Reis (p. 237) suggests she is more in the dark than anyone who 
worked for him would be.

---

From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:49:29 +0000

Here's my report from WindyCon 35:

First of all, Nigel Price is in the hospital. He was taken by ambulance on 
Saturday morning when he could not get out of bed. He does not seem to be in 
imminent danger now (last I heard). But, the doctors were apparently not 
certain of the cause of his problem as of last night. They were to run 
additional tests this morning that hopefully will be more conclusive. Those 
that will, please keep him in your prayers. It is not clear whether he will 
even be able to fly home as planned on Monday.

I arrived at the Westin in Lombard at around 8pm Friday. Michael 
Andre-Driussi, Nigel, and Gene's daughter, Teri, were chatting in the lobby. 
Nigel had been there all day. He had hung out with Gene, Rosemary, and Teri 
most of the afternoon. Gene had panel discussion on children in warfare 
around 4:30pm, but there was an awful screw-up about the room location (I 
won't point fingers except to say it wasn't Gene's fault), so he arrived 
quite late for it. Then the four of them went to supper.

We sat their chatting about Wolfe, movies, books, Chicago, the convention, 
and other things until midnight. We also discussed Michael's and Nigel's 
panel on the future of warfare and it's presentation in science fiction. 
Nigel in particular was very excited about it. Michael, Nigel, and I agreed 
to meet in the lobby at 8am and go to breakfast.

I was met Michael in lobby at 10 to 8. We called Nigel's room but he didn't 
answer. We decided he was on his way or showering so we chatted as we waited 
until 8. I called again at 8 sharp but this time the phone picked up and 
hung up. Uh oh. Nigel must have decided to sleep in. Not surprising with the 
6 hour time difference with England. So we went on to breakfast. We spent 
about an hour and a half talking about books and politics. Walking back to 
the hotel just before 10, there was an ambulance out front. We tut-tutted in 
sympathy went on in. Still no Nigel. We presumed he was boning up for the 
panel. At 10 there was a scheduled book discussion on "Soldier of the Mist" 
with the chicago-sf.org book club. Michael was greeted as a celebrity, and 
it was additionally lucky for them that he was there, because he did a good 
job of reminding me to stick to the topic of SoTM and to avoid bringing up 
the later or other novels in the discussion.

At 11, Michael had book signings. I trolled the con. Still no Nigel. The 
panel discussion was at noon. Wolfe was participating as well. Rosemary and 
Teri were there too. Still no Nigel. I went to the concierge and called his 
room and searched the whole con (perhaps there was another room mix-up like 
the one on Friday). I met Teri on the way back. She told me to go on back 
and she would try to find him. Here is where Teri proved that she had snap 
that was just out of reach of Michael and me. She realized that no one 
travels 1000 miles spending 1000s of $ to be on a panel and not show up. She 
went to Security and gave them Nigel's room number telling them she was 
concerned for him. Indeed, they told her, he had been taken to the hospital 
by ambulance that morning. My call had awakened him, but he couldn't reach 
the phone in time. Eventually, he managed to dial zero for the front desk.

She came back and quietly told me what was going on and that she was going 
to go to the hospital to check on him. She asked me to call her in 10 
minutes so she would have my phone number. After the panel discussion I let 
everyone know why Nigel couldn't make it.

Only family members could get into the ER to see Nigel, so Teri told them 
she was his niece. She got apprised of what the doctors knew so far and 
called Nigel's wife. She helped negotiate the information to ensure his 
insurance would cover all his expenses. Nigel had rented a car so he could 
see some more of Chicago while he was there. So Teri arranged for Michael to 
drive it back when he went to the airport on Sunday. Essentially, she took 
Nigel completely under her wing and became his proxy-wife.

After the panel Gene, Rosemary, and Michael went on to Harry Caray's for 
lunch. As they entered the restaurant (connected to the lobby), Michael 
motioned for me to join them. About 20 minutes later, Teri joined us as 
well.

Lunch ended a little after 3pm. The rest of the day was spent chatting with 
Michael and Teri and wandering aimlessly and happily around the con. Teri 
went back in the evening to check on Nigel. And I spent the rest of the 
evening in the lobby watching the people in costume pass by and talking to 
Michael about movies.

At 11pm, Michael and I agreed to meet for breakfast at 8am on Sunday which 
we did. Coming back to the lobby, we met Gene and Rosemary coming out of 
Harry Caray's. He admonished us for not joining them for breakfast. Of 
course, if we had realized that that was an option, we surely would have. I 
took some pictures with Gene, Rosemary, and Michael then. Unfortunately I 
had to leave at 10am to catch my shuttle for the airport.

I probably did less "con" activities at WindyCon than at any convention I've 
ever been to, but I doubt I've every had so much fun.

J

---

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:37:34 +0000

Oh my! Poor Nigel!

I do hope he is OK, are you following up?

.

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---

From: Matthew Keeley <matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:27:21 +0000

> I do hope he is OK, are you following up?

Well, my prayers are certainly with him. Let's hope it's a one-time
and fixable problem.

Do keep us apprised.

-Matt

---

From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:47:39 +0000

> I do hope he is OK, are you following up?

I heard from Teri this morning. They still haven't arrived at a diagnosis.

It seems Nigel won't get to go home *at least* until Wednesday.

Meanwhile, the Wolfe clan has checked him out of his hotel room, boxed up 
his stuff, and his visiting him (Gene & Rosemary said they intended to plan 
to go see him yesterday).

This seems to be developing like a Wolfe story. First Teri tells a lie to 
the hospital that she is Nigel's niece. Then the Wolfes begin caring for him 
like family. No doubt, before he flies off to his island in the East, we 
will discover that Nigel is the clone of Rosemary's phantom twin.

J.

---

From: Andy Robertson <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:34:31 +0000

> I heard from Teri this morning. They still haven't arrived at a diagnosis. 

Thank you for doing all this, James 

 - hartshorn 

http://www.thenightland.co.uk 

01273-488272 / 0777-214-9545

---

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:03:02 +0000

I didn't even know that Rosemary *had* a phanton twin.

.

---

From: Matthew Keeley <matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:48:17 +0000

> I didn't even know that Rosemary *had* a phanton twin.

Well, it's only one theory. *Mine* involves time travel.

Thanks for keeping us posted.

-Matt

---

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:10:06 +0000

Nigel and I had an exchange of letters before he left for WindyCon which
makes this strange situation look even stranger, but I think I would need
his permission before going into this any further.

Are we talking back and forth time travel or sideways?

.

---

From: Adam Thornton <adam at io.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:08:33 +0000

On Nov 17, 2008, at 12:47 PM, James Wynn wrote:

> Meanwhile, the Wolfe clan has checked him out of his hotel room,  
> boxed up his stuff, and his visiting him (Gene & Rosemary said they  
> intended to plan to go see him yesterday).
>
> This seems to be developing like a Wolfe story. First Teri tells a  
> lie to the hospital that she is Nigel's niece. Then the Wolfes begin  
> caring for him like family. No doubt, before he flies off to his  
> island in the East, we will discover that Nigel is the clone of  
> Rosemary's phantom twin.

Someone will probably end up with his or her throat torn out.

It's not a Wolfe story without at least one werewolf.

Adam
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From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:41:37 +0000

>Someone will probably end up with his or her throat torn out.

Maybe so. I do think I'm getting a scratchy throat!

---

From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:49:21 +0000

> Maybe so. I do think I'm getting a scratchy throat!
Ahhh... Con crud...

-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant
-----
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer
http://www.danehyoakes.com

I once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a restaurant
and, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand Island Dressing and
a bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett
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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:59:51 +0000

I recently got around to reading AEG, then went back and read all the posts
about it I had skipped. With those posts in mind--particularly Dave
Tallman's, because he has done most of the heavy lifting so far--I read the
book again, very s l o w l y, with attention to details.

> the timing can be made to work with one:

I see no good reason to suppose Norma was ever married to Reis, but the
apparition of Vince on that island as some sort of manifistation of a
volcano gives me enough pause that I can't just dismiss it. Reis said he had
been married twice. (p.-275)

>       probably conceived on Woldercan, or shortly before they arrived.

Rian must have been born on Earth years before Reis went to Woldercan. See
below.

>    3. The marriage only lasted two years(p. 176)

Well, Norma's marriage did.

>    5. He has been back at least a year (to see Rian's football games, p.

Right. Reis hired Gid for some job two years earlier (120), and the U.S.
Navy had been looking for the gold for two years (273). Reis had probably
been back for about three years.

>       Chase talked to. He says "an earlier president" not "the previous

No, there was no intervening president, as determined by the order of
ambassadors:

1st Ambassador, Bob Chase (296)
2nd Harold Klauser (18, 296)
3rd William Reis (277)
4th unnamed (222), who succeeded Reis and was replaced by
5th Gideon Chase (293)

>       President's "own man" (p. 19).

Reis served just eight years. (95)

>   12. In the picture where he announces he will retire (p. 14), Reis

Right, but he had a wife when he came to Woldercan, per that picture you
mentioned on p.-301, but the wife wasn't in that picture either. Not
conclusive. I think Reis likely was divorced from his first wife before he
went to Woldercan, and she was left filthy rich. Rian's mother had to be
rich to have hired Gid to fix the boy's heart. (277) She probably stayed on
Earth to raise the sickly boy. The wife mentioned in the picture may have
been his second wife.

So, Rian would have been about five years old when Reis went to Woldercan.

But, we are left with the question of just when Gid cured the kid. If Reis
actually paid for it, that may have been the occasion, mentioned above, two
years earlier when he hired Gid for an unspecified consultation. Reis said
the boy was "very ill as a child." Is 14 too old to call him a child? I
suppose not.

Then there is a problem with Gid's age. Sharon said he looked to be in his
mid-thirties. (25) Klauser said he had been a "small boy" when he last saw
him. (297) 5 or 6 years old? But if you add up the elapsed ambassadorial
terms and add another 7-9 years to that, Gid should be only in his
mid-twenties. And he's a Ph.D. He seems to be older than the numbers allow.
And I don't think Wolfe made a mistake here. I think something is going on
with sequential time, as hinted at by the peculiar nature of ethermail
between Earth and Woldercan. Maybe travel between them has a warping effect?

-Roy

---

From: Mo Holkar / UKG <lists at ukg.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:22:24 +0000

At 05:59 12/12/2008, Roy wrote:
>the apparition of Vince on that island as some sort of manifistation 
>of a volcano

I took that to be the "real" volcano god, assuming Vince's form 
because that was how Cassie was accustomed to seeing the god in the 
show. (Alternatively, Vince's show costume was an extremely accurate 
portrayal of the god's natural appearance.) On p286 Cassie realizes 
"You're not really Vince, are you? You just look like him."

Admittedly, we've had no real cause to believe up till then that 
there is a "real" volcano god; but given Cassie's experience with the 
shark god, there sems no reason to doubt it either. Of course, in 
both cases no-one else witnesses the apparition.

best wishes,

Mo

Mo Holkar
Undying King Games
mo at ukg.co.uk
http://www.ukg.co.uk

---

From: Dave Tallman <davetallman at msn.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:15:07 +0000

> been married twice. (p.-275)
You are right: there have to be two wives, and the mother of Rian is 
probably not the one who went with Reis to Woldercan. Norma is still an 
excellent candidate for the first wife, the mother of Rian. It had to be 
someone Sharon knew that Cassie knew, since Sharon asked Cassie to 
promise not to "brace them with it" (p. 25). Sharon did a gossip show on 
TV, and she might easily have found out that actress Norma was the 
ex-wife of a rich, former ambassador. Norma might have threatened her to 
prevent her from revealing this.

> 4th unnamed (222), who succeeded Reis and was replaced by
There's no absolute correspondence between the appointments of 
ambassadors and changes of presidential administration. An ambassador 
might be left in by a new president, or changed during his term. We knew 
Reis served 8 years (p. 95, good catch), and that Ingstrup ran for a 
second term after appointing Reis (pp. 15-16). We don't know that 
Ingstrup won re-election, but it may be simpler to assume he did.

> the boy was "very ill as a child." Is 14 too old to call him a child? I
No, it seems the ex-wife consulted Gideon on her own first. Reis had 
never heard of Chase until then. The consultation by Reis was later, and 
might have been the oil-field deal (p. 26). Reis had all sorts of 
business interests.

> between Earth and Woldercan. Maybe travel between them has a warping effect?
Gid may develop faster as an alien half-breed (ala the "Dunwich 
Horror"). We also don't really know how long Klauser's term was.

---

From: Dave Tallman <davetallman at msn.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:19:51 +0000

> "You're not really Vince, are you? You just look like him."
It could also be the spirit of Bill Reis, appearing as Vince Palma to 
avoid causing her too much grief. There are many connections between 
Reis and Palma; he seems almost like an alter-ego (but they are seen 
together on p. 68, so it's not an identity).

Here's another image connection I just noticed:
"The high king's wife was the high queen... Her head was on fire." (p. 226)
"..his headdress... was now of leaping flame." (P. 285).