Subject: (urth) AEG only semi-spoilish

From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:03:36 +0000

Here goes Dan'l with his nutty theory again...

My ongoing theory is that one of Wolfe's basic themes/memes/working
methods is to embed non-Christian cosmologies into larger Christian
contexts. That is, in these novels Christianity is ultimately true but some
other belief system functions locally as if it were true.

The most blatant example of this is "Long Sun," which is  explicitly a
Gnostic world (the Whorl) contained inside a larger universe in
which Christianity is true (i.e., the Outsider is the Christian God).
Only slightly less straightforward are his embedding of Norse (TWK)
and Greek (Latro I & II) pagan cosmologies into the Christian ur-context.

I've argued this at length.

So I don't suppose anyone on this list will be terribly surprised
when I suggest that, in AN EVIL GUEST, Wolfe has similarly
embedded Lovecraft's cosmology into the Christian ur-context.
That Squiddie (Cthulhu) and R'lyeh and other Lovecraftiana are
real in the novel seems beyond dispute. The cultists practice
Lovecraftian nihilism, and it is "locally true" -- as long as they
are under the influence of the GOOs, it may as well be true.

This needs fleshing out, but I'm putting it out as a starting point
to be attacked and developed.

-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant
-----
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer
http://www.danehyoakes.com

I once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a restaurant
and, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand Island Dressing and
a bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett
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From: James Crossley <ishmael at drizzle.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:17:46 +0000

> other belief system functions locally as if it were true.
I’m not going to be able to back this up in any way, but I whole-heartedly
agree.  In the worlds of Wolfe’s books, elaborate cosmologies appear to
belie Christian truth, but he always lets Jehovah peek through the cracks.
I imagine that’s how Wolfe thinks it worked in the real world, too, with a
deepening pagan understanding of the world eventually giving way to the
revealed Christianity behind the scenes.

James 
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From: Mo Holkar / UKG <lists at ukg.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:01:10 +0000

>are under the influence of the GOOs, it may as well be true.

I'm happy to buy that -- I don't think Wolfe would have wanted to 
handle that material on any other basis -- but I'd like to see an 
exposition of the way the larger Christian picture might be seen to 
inform the events of AEG, because to me it's not all clear.

best wishes,

Mo

# ~ # ~ #

WolfeWiki now at:
http://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/

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From: Dave Tallman <davetallman at msn.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:51:04 +0000

> inform the events of AEG, because to me it's not all clear.

There is Christianity in Wolfe's future world. Cassie encounters it 
through Margaret (especially in her song "Walk in the Reign") and in her 
role as Mariah Brownlea. Her star-power causes her roles to become real 
to her, so I believe she gets in touch with real spirituality through 
these songs and roles. It's like the concept of "act as if" in 12-step 
programs. She begins to get ideas like "add nothing to God and you get 
good."

I believe this makes her stronger and able to face adversity in the end 
much better than she could have before. Her relationship with Reis has 
elements of allegory with Christ and the Church, though Reis is far from 
perfect as a Christ-figure (like Severian, his action to redeem his 
world involves mass flooding and destruction).

In the end, Cassie seems redeemed from a shallow, materialistic life. 
Her hope that Wally will somehow come back to her is like that of 
Christians waiting for the return of Christ.

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From: John Watkins <john.watkins04 at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:08:25 +0000

On 11/20/08, Dave Tallman <davetallman at msn.com> wrote:
> Mo Holkar wrote:
> There is Christianity in Wolfe's future world. Cassie encounters it through
> Margaret (especially in her song "Walk in the Reign") and in her role as
> Mariah Brownlea. Her star-power causes her roles to become real to her, so I
> believe she gets in touch with real spirituality through these songs and
> roles. It's like the concept of "act as if" in 12-step programs. She begins
> to get ideas like "add nothing to God and you get good."
>

That "act as if" stuff seems to be a huge part of all of Wolfe's
books.  Wolfe is always working with the idea that you are the thing
you do, that we freely choose our actions and that we're transformed
by them.

I've argued this before, but it's most explicit in the Long Sun when
it's explained that a demon can't imitate a god--if it does, it will
be absorbed into the god.  So we see Kypris, a woman's personality
masquerading as a love-goddess, becoming an instrument of the
Outsider, the true God of Love, and we see the significance of Horn's
imitations of Silk.

I guess it's also the point of The Wizard Knight and Pirate Freedom.
The protagonists of each make a choice about who they want to be in
the new world they find themselves in, and both succeed.

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