{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5230", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5230, "subject": "\"Myfather'smountedguard\"", "messages": 2, "voices": 1, "first": "2008-11-20T17:41:27+00:00", "last": "2008-11-20T17:45:28+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-11-20T17:41:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) \"Myfather'smountedguard\"", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As for the issue of the Old Autarch being Thecla's father -- he cannot be\nher or Thea's biological father, as I've said before, and recently. It's\nthis simple: Thecla is an exultant; the Old Autarch is decidedly not. He is\na little guy, scarcely taller than Cyriaca. One must be *born* an exultant,\nof exultant stock. See the first appendix to CLAW.\n\nOne born of the mating of an exultant and common person is taller than the\naverage commoner, but notably shorter than an exultant. A person of such\nmixture is regarded as a bastard, such as the fat guy outside Agilus' cell." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "The date of the unmanning of Appian is probably crucial here. How much\nolder is Thecla? How long back was Appian unmanned?<<" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "He was unmanned not too long before Severian was born, then opened the\nwhorehouse about the same year Sev was born. See chapter XXIV, CITADEL.\n\nThe best determination I can make of Thecla's age is that she is a little\nolder than Sev, but not a lot older. Maybe 23-25.\n\n-Roy" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Okay, I'll buy that Roy.\nMan, that Solar Labyrinth has some wacky ideas.\njust read his idea about that oversized baby in Baldander's castle being Severian and Juturnas baby from mating in the Lake of Birds. lol.\nsure. why not? but it adds approximately squat to any deeper meaning.\n~witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-11-20T17:45:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) \"Myfather'smountedguard\"", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Mo Holkar / UKG [mailto:lists at ukg.co.uk]\nSent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:31 AM\nTo: 'The Urth Mailing List'\nSubject: Re: (urth) \"Myfather's mounted guard\"\n\nAt 18:34 18/11/2008, Son of Witz wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "what are my qualms then?:\njust that most of the added details only add to the plowman's \nmeaning and add very little to the soothsayers' or transcendental \nmeanings. This book is like what Dorcas says about the floating \ncathedral (It is the Catheral of the Claw that jumps into the air \nwhen it's set afire, right?) She says \"It\nseems to me that what you call the third meaning is very clear. But the second\nmeaning is harder to find, and the first, which ought to be the easiest, is\nimpossible.\" So, I guess since the first meaning is so difficult, \nBorski should be commended for connecting the breadcrumb trails with \nsome neon paint.\n\nHowever I can't help but feel that what Wolfe wanted us to take away \nwas the third and second meanings, and he used the ambiguity of the \nfirst to lead us further than plot. I'm not sure where to credit \nit, but an esoteric teaching I've heard is \"there is no escape \nthrough the horizontal\" and I would argue that most of these \nreadings leave us wandering in the labyrinth. I find the \ntranscendental readings, the vertical dimension, lead us out of the \nlabyrinth and into even MORE interesting territory than the \nlabyrinth of incestuous time warped bloodlines and religio-political \nmanipulation." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Just to pick up on your larger point here, I feel the same way -- \nalthough Wolfe unhelpfully blurs the issue by including some plot \npuzzles that _are_ important to the higher meanings (eg Dorcas's \nidentity). So it's easy to get step-by-step drawn into deeper and \ndeeper puzzling over implied or possible layers of meaning concealed \nwithin arcana of plot, in the hope that a discovered correspondence \nmay shed a new light on something important.\n\nI guess a (playful) comparison might be made with Church history. \nSome theologians back-calculate the date of Creation and determine \nthe numbers of angels that can fit in various places, while others \nare only interested in the revealed Word of the Gospels. Wolfeanism \nis too young to have yet had a Reformation, but give it a few hundred years...\n\nMo" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah, I've only really entertained those curiosities (I'll refrain from calling them mysteries) in the hope that they illuminate something important.\n\nand yeah, back calculating the date of creation. This pursuit has always struck me as ridiculous. or as my friend would say, retarculous. I really don't think this stuff is meant to be taken LITERALLY.\n~witz" } ] } ] }