{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5240",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 5240,
    "subject": "secular interpretations",
    "messages": 4,
    "voices": 3,
    "first": "2008-11-26T02:29:33+00:00",
    "last": "2008-11-26T05:28:16+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<834625.56804.qm@web58205.mail.re3.yahoo.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Marc Aramini",
        "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com"
      },
      "date": "2008-11-26T02:29:33+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) secular interpretations",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I agree with Chris in his impressions of Wright - I feel like the ambiguity around the miraculous in Wolfe is necessary and important.  The enlightenment of the outsider DOES wind up being a preprogrammed message from Typhon and his mistress Mamelta (like Marlon Brando in Superman), though Crane&#39;s interpretaion sounds lame at first.  Yet it can still be divine enlightenment even if it has a rational cause.\n\nShadows of the New Sun is a fabulous Wright creation because it is actually Wolfe speaking and writing rather than an author with a thesis he must force the text to support, (as we all tend to in graduate lit courses when push comes to shove.)\n\n\n      "
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<273409710811252053x43c00aa6i6e4e53b9ab7db107@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jordon Flato",
        "address": "jordonflato at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2008-11-26T04:53:59+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) secular interpretations",
      "in_reply_to": "<834625.56804.qm@web58205.mail.re3.yahoo.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "SonOfWitz:  Do not read this post, it contains spoilers\n\n<<The enlightenment of the outsider DOES wind up being a preprogrammed\nmessage from Typhon and his mistress Mamelta (like Marlon Brando in\nSuperman), though Crane's interpretaion sounds lame at first.>>\n\nIs this a commonly accepted interpretation?  I've only read through Long Sun\ntwice, but I can't at all see how this is the case!  It would certainly\nchange a lot of how I think about that book.  The Outsider seems to me to be\nthe genuine article.  Can you point me to some evidence of this?\n\nPast that, I think the idea put forth that even the bad guys end up working\nfor the increate is a sound one."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 6:29 PM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at yahoo.com> wrote:\nI agree with Chris in his impressions of Wright - I feel like the ambiguity\naround the miraculous in Wolfe is necessary and important.    Yet it can\nstill be divine enlightenment even if it has a rational cause.\n\nShadows of the New Sun is a fabulous Wright creation because it is actually\nWolfe speaking and writing rather than an author with a thesis he must force\nthe text to support, (as we all tend to in graduate lit courses when push\ncomes to shove.)\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<006801c94f85$164c17a0$edd04a0c@rclackey>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Roy C. Lackey",
        "address": "rclackey at stic.net"
      },
      "date": "2008-11-26T05:08:50+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) secular interpretations",
      "in_reply_to": "<273409710811252053x43c00aa6i6e4e53b9ab7db107@mail.gmail.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Jordon Flato wrote:\nSonOfWitz:  Do not read this post, it contains spoilers\n\n<<The enlightenment of the outsider DOES wind up being a preprogrammed\nmessage from Typhon and his mistress Mamelta (like Marlon Brando in\nSuperman), though Crane's interpretaion sounds lame at first.>>\n\nIs this a commonly accepted interpretation?  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Absolutely not!\n\n-Roy"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<273409710811252128y69ddf102qa38880eef2f8934e@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jordon Flato",
        "address": "jordonflato at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2008-11-26T05:28:16+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) secular interpretations",
      "in_reply_to": "<006801c94f85$164c17a0$edd04a0c@rclackey>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Whew!\n\n\nI mean, I don't think I would have accepted this even if it were 'common'\nwisdom, as it seems so far off the mark to me in so many ways.  But, I'm\nglad to know I'm not alone in that one!"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net> wrote:\nJordon Flato wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "SonOfWitz:  Do not read this post, it contains spoilers\n\n<<The enlightenment of the outsider DOES wind up being a preprogrammed\nmessage from Typhon and his mistress Mamelta (like Marlon Brando in\nSuperman), though Crane's interpretaion sounds lame at first.>>\n\nIs this a commonly accepted interpretation?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Absolutely not!\n\n-Roy\n_______________________________________________"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}