{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/525", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 525, "subject": "Napoleon", "messages": 6, "voices": 3, "first": "1998-04-30T20:23:43+00:00", "last": "1998-05-04T00:57:43+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert King", "address": "bobking at gate.net" }, "date": "1998-04-30T20:23:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Napoleon", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Maybe it's my sick mind at work, but I always surmised that Weer's theory\nheld that Napoleon was surreptitiously, uh, fondling himself. (In\nSeinfeldian terms, the Emperor might have ruled much of Europe but he was\ndefinitely not master of his own domain.) Although I suppose the hand\nwould have to be much lower than portraits usually place it.\n\nIn any case, that's the type of explanation a certain type of boy at a\ncertain age would take great delight in recounting, especially to older\nrelatives. And it would invariably offend.\n\n-- Bob" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Paul C Duggan", "address": "pduggan at world.std.com" }, "date": "1998-05-01T14:23:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Napoleon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The story about napoleon that fits weers description would seem to be that\nNapoleon was one of the first to receive a colostomy bag. He kept his hand\nin his coat to keep it from passing wind.\n\nHey, that's what I read somewhere. Sounds like a job for\nalt.folklore.urban\n\n\"I am an impure thinker. I am hurt, swayed, shaken, | paul + | +\nelated, disillusioned, shocked, comforted, and I | --|--\nhave to transmit my mental experiences lest I die.\" | + | +\n -- Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy | pduggan at world.std.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William H. Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "1998-05-01T23:46:17+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Napoleon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Bob (Robert King) wrote:\nMaybe it's my sick mind at work, but I always surmised that Weer's theory\nheld that Napoleon was surreptitiously, uh, fondling himself." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In any case, that's the type of explanation a certain type of boy at a\ncertain age would take great delight in recounting, especially to older\nrelatives. And it would invariably offend." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Aside from difficulties associated with how Nappy could do this with his\nhand in his waistcoat (which ends at the waist, at least in front), it\nseems unlikely to me that Weer (or Wolfe) would consider this an innocent\nremark.\n\nWilliam Ansley" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William H. Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "1998-05-01T23:46:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Napoleon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Paul C Duggan wrote:\nThe story about napoleon that fits weers description would seem to be that\nNapoleon was one of the first to receive a colostomy bag. He kept his hand\nin his coat to keep it from passing wind." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Again, I don't think this fits with the fact that this is supposed to be an\ninnocent remark.\n\n\"At first I used to tell it in the hope of satisfying curiosity (and so\nobtaining those real though impalpable satifactions, sweet at any time, but\nsweetest at thirteen, which accrue when we appear knowledgeable and thus,\nat least by implication, effective). Later I continued it as a\npsychological experiment, having observed that the innocent remark\ninvariably offended.\"\n\n_Peace_, p. 2\n\nBTW, don't you just love the long involuted sentences that abound in _Peace_?\n\nWilliam Ansley" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert King", "address": "bobking at gate.net" }, "date": "1998-05-02T13:18:49+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Napoleon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree with you on the physical difficulties, and maybe the colostomy bag\nis more realistic. But I think it's perfectly common for kids (okay, maybe\n13 is a little old, but then again these were supposedly more innocent\ndays, weren't they?) to think of their questions or remarks as innocuous\nand then find that they've offended more-knowing adults. As in, \"Hey\nmommy, what does **** mean?\"\n\nTo \"invariably offend,\" the remark would have to somewhat salacious,\nwouldn't it? How likely is it everybody would be offended by young Weer\ndemystifying Napoleon's pose?\n\nDon't you think it's wonderful that by not telling us what Napoleon was\nsupposedly doing, Wolfe has managed to keep us talking about it 23 years\nlater?\n\n\n-- Bob" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 1 May 1998, William H. Ansley wrote:\nAside from difficulties associated with how Nappy could do this with his\nhand in his waistcoat (which ends at the waist, at least in front), it\nseems unlikely to me that Weer (or Wolfe) would consider this an innocent\nremark." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William H. Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "1998-05-04T00:57:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Napoleon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I agree with you on the physical difficulties, and maybe the colostomy bag\nis more realistic. But I think it's perfectly common for kids (okay, maybe\n13 is a little old, but then again these were supposedly more innocent\ndays, weren't they?) to think of their questions or remarks as innocuous\nand then find that they've offended more-knowing adults. As in, \"Hey\nmommy, what does **** mean?\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is possible, but my interpretation of the passage in question, which I\nhave\nappended to the end of this message, is that Weer continued to repeat the\nstory (\"as a psychological experiment\") into his adult years but still felt\nthe remark to be innocent. There is some mild support for this later on.\nWhen Weer is talking to Louis Gold in his study, after Sherry Gold has\npersuaded Weer not to tell anyone about about her father's forged books, on\np. 226 of the Orb edition, he says:\n\n\"I'm afraid I only know the story of Bonaparte's hand, and I don't tell it\nvery often anymore.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "To \"invariably offend,\" the remark would have to somewhat salacious,\nwouldn't it? How likely is it everybody would be offended by young Weer\ndemystifying Napoleon's pose?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It certainly is hard to think of a remark that meets these two criteria. If\nthe author weren't Wolfe, I might think that he didn't have any real remark\nabout Napoleon's hand in mind and was just being annoyingly mysterious.\nBut, since it is Wolfe, I tend to think that (in addition to being\nannoyingly mysterious) he does have a remark in mind that would make us all\nsay \"Oh, of course!\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Don't you think it's wonderful that by not telling us what Napoleon was\nsupposedly doing, Wolfe has managed to keep us talking about it 23 years\nlater?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It certainly is wonderful, but the time of wonders must end. 8-> I think I\nhave beat this thing to death and beyond, so I'll (probably) stop here.\n\n-----------------------------------\n\"At first I used to tell it in the hope of satisfying curiosity (and so\nobtaining those real though impalpable satifactions, sweet at any time, but\nsweetest at thirteen, which accrue when we appear knowledgeable and thus,\nat least by implication, effective). Later I continued it as a\npsychological experiment, having observed that the innocent remark\ninvariably offended.\"\n\n_Peace_, p. 2\n-----------------------------------\n\nWilliam Ansley" } ] } ] }