{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5272", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5272, "subject": "Severian among the Ascians", "messages": 11, "voices": 7, "first": "2008-12-11T19:17:42+00:00", "last": "2008-12-12T15:32:28+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<49416756.5080807@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2008-12-11T19:17:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians.\n\nDoes anyone know when this is thought to have occurred?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1bf4dd40812111133s3bb56290m97a6102eb644f3c5@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-12-11T19:33:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "<49416756.5080807@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff wrote:\nLexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians.\n\nDoes anyone know when this is thought to have occurred?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It must be after he became Autarch (1 S.R.) and before leaving for\nBriah (10 S.R.). The most likely scenario is that he was captured\nwhile leading a battle against the Ascians. Just like the first time\nhe and the old Autarch were captured, he wouldn't have been recognized\nas Autarch. He was enslaved by them for about a year." } ] }, { "message_id": "<74EBDDD6-7CE5-4A0B-98F4-1C6D86FC4AD6@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-12-11T19:45:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "<49416756.5080807@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:17 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nLexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians.\n\nDoes anyone know when this is thought to have occurred?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm reminded of the Mormon claim that Jesus spent some of the Missing \nYears in America.\n\nAlso, of course, the fairy-story trope of rulers switching kingdoms \nfor a year and a day.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20081211212857.GD12863@broggs.org>", "from": { "name": "Jeffrey Brent McBeth", "address": "mcbeth at broggs.org" }, "date": "2008-12-11T21:28:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "<74EBDDD6-7CE5-4A0B-98F4-1C6D86FC4AD6@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 01:45:53PM -0600, Adam Thornton wrote:\n\nOn Dec 11, 2008, at 1:17 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians.\n\nDoes anyone know when this is thought to have occurred?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm reminded of the Mormon claim that Jesus spent some of the Missing Years \nin America." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm assuming that by Missing Years, you mean between age 8 and 30. The\nMormon claim is actually that Jesus spent time in America after his\nresurrection." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, of course, the fairy-story trope of rulers switching kingdoms for a \nyear and a day.\n\nAdam" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<620175.24293.qm@web180012.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "John Smith", "address": "jsmith2627 at att.net" }, "date": "2008-12-11T21:45:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "<1bf4dd40812111133s3bb56290m97a6102eb644f3c5@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is there any evidence in the text for Severian spending a year with the Ascians? Or is this a doctrine, like the Immaculate Conception, that is derived by clever reasoning?\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Dave Tallman wrote:\nFrom: Dave Tallman \nSubject: Re: (urth) Severian among the Ascians\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nDate: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 2:33 PM\nDavid Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year\namong the Ascians.\n\nDoes anyone know when this is thought to have\noccurred?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It must be after he became Autarch (1 S.R.) and before\nleaving for\nBriah (10 S.R.). The most likely scenario is that he was\ncaptured\nwhile leading a battle against the Ascians. Just like the\nfirst time\nhe and the old Autarch were captured, he wouldn't have\nbeen recognized\nas Autarch. He was enslaved by them for about a year.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-12-11T21:54:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "<620175.24293.qm@web180012.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians.\n\nDoes anyone know when this is thought to have occurred?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My biggest problem with Lexicon Urthus is that he throws out some wild suggestions and then often doesn't cite any text that supports it. I love the speculation, but lets back it up. Of course there are many great things about the L.U.\n\n~witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1bf4dd40812111520k2cf8a103q494286aaa130ce6e@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-12-11T23:20:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Son of Witz wrote:\n\nMy biggest problem with Lexicon Urthus is that he throws out some wild" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "suggestions and then often doesn't cite any text that supports it. I love\nthe speculation, but lets back it up. Of course there are many great things\nabout the L.U." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "L.U. does give a reference on this one under \"History of Urth\" in the\ntimeline. It's UotNS, Chapter 51. It says Sev spent a year among the\nAscians, but not that he was a slave. The part comes from a Wolfe interview,\nreferenced here:\nhttp://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2007-July/008043.html" } ] }, { "message_id": "<49332.66.126.239.225.1229037974.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-12-11T23:26:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "<74EBDDD6-7CE5-4A0B-98F4-1C6D86FC4AD6@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:17 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Does anyone know when this is thought to have occurred?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm reminded of the Mormon claim that Jesus spent some of the Missing\nYears in America." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Who knows? I believe that if you had the right connections you could get a\nboat in the Middle East that was going to America, or would meet up with\none that did.\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "<49412.66.126.239.225.1229038993.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-12-11T23:43:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "<20081211212857.GD12863@broggs.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm reminded of the Mormon claim that Jesus spent some of the Missing\nYears in America." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm assuming that by Missing Years, you mean between age 8 and 30. The\nMormon claim is actually that Jesus spent time in America after his\nresurrection." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There are, apparently, (according to modern, Christian Polynesians)\npre-Christian Polynesian stories about some white guy going around on a\nbig boat around the time of Christ and doing miracles.\n\nAlso, and I don't think there is a connection, large numbers of Tongans\nare Mormons (the official Church is Weslayan, and there are also a lot of\nCatholics in Tonga).\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4941A85A.8070503@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2008-12-11T23:55:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "<49412.66.126.239.225.1229038993.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sounds likely---thanks!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\n\nMessage: 6\nDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:33:47 -0700\nFrom: \"Dave Tallman\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) Severian among the Ascians\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nMessage-ID:\n\t<1bf4dd40812111133s3bb56290m97a6102eb644f3c5 at mail.gmail.com>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"iso-8859-1\"\n\nDavid Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians.\n\nDoes anyone know when this is thought to have occurred?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " \n\nIt must be after he became Autarch (1 S.R.) and before leaving for\nBriah (10 S.R.). The most likely scenario is that he was captured\nwhile leading a battle against the Ascians. Just like the first time\nhe and the old Autarch were captured, he wouldn't have been recognized\nas Autarch. He was enslaved by them for about a year." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4942840C.7040100@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2008-12-12T15:32:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian among the Ascians", "in_reply_to": "<4941A85A.8070503@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The text is here:\n\nAgain I endured my imprisonment in the jungle ziggurat by Vodalus, the year I had spent among the Ascians,\nmy flight from the white wolves in the Secret House; and a thousand similiar terrors, until\nat last it seemed to me that a demon desired that I surrender my miserable existence to\nApu-Punchau, and that the demon was myself.\n\n\nWolfe is here:\n\nWolfe: \"There was the time when Severian encountered assassins in the\nSecret House who had come to kill Ymar, an autarch a chiliad dead. I may\nwrite about that sometime. And the year he spent as a slave of the\nAscians. But I doubt that either will make it into print.\"\n\nSince this was in 1982, it was before he wrote TUotNS, in which Severian does indeed meet a corpse of an assassin \nwho comes to life as he watches, then presumably stabs Valeria. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\n\nMessage: 2\nDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:20:59 -0700\nFrom: \"Dave Tallman\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) Severian among the Ascians\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nMessage-ID:\n\t<1bf4dd40812111520k2cf8a103q494286aaa130ce6e at mail.gmail.com>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"iso-8859-1\"\n\nSon of Witz wrote:\n\nMy biggest problem with Lexicon Urthus is that he throws out some wild" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "suggestions and then often doesn't cite any text that supports it. I love\nthe speculation, but lets back it up. Of course there are many great things\nabout the L.U." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " \nL.U. does give a reference on this one under \"History of Urth\" in the \ntimeline. It's UotNS, Chapter 51. It says Sev spent a year among the \nAscians, but not that he was a slave. The part comes from a Wolfe \ninterview, referenced here: \nhttp://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2007-July/008043.html " } ] } ] }