# Severian among the Ascians *The Urth list — 11 messages, 7 voices, 11 Dec 2008* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### David Stockhoff *11 Dec 2008, 19:17* Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians. Does anyone know when this is thought to have occurred? --- ### Dave Tallman *11 Dec 2008, 19:33 · follows David Stockhoff* > David Stockhoff wrote: > Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians. > > Does anyone know when this is thought to have occurred? It must be after he became Autarch (1 S.R.) and before leaving for Briah (10 S.R.). The most likely scenario is that he was captured while leading a battle against the Ascians. Just like the first time he and the old Autarch were captured, he wouldn't have been recognized as Autarch. He was enslaved by them for about a year. --- ### Adam Thornton *11 Dec 2008, 19:45 · in reply to David Stockhoff* > On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:17 PM, David Stockhoff wrote: > Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians. > > Does anyone know when this is thought to have occurred? I'm reminded of the Mormon claim that Jesus spent some of the Missing Years in America. Also, of course, the fairy-story trope of rulers switching kingdoms for a year and a day. Adam --- ### Jeffrey Brent McBeth *11 Dec 2008, 21:28 · in reply to Adam Thornton* > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 01:45:53PM -0600, Adam Thornton wrote: > > On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:17 PM, David Stockhoff wrote: >> Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians. >> >> Does anyone know when this is thought to have occurred? > I'm reminded of the Mormon claim that Jesus spent some of the Missing Years > in America. I'm assuming that by Missing Years, you mean between age 8 and 30. The Mormon claim is actually that Jesus spent time in America after his resurrection. > Also, of course, the fairy-story trope of rulers switching kingdoms for a > year and a day. > > Adam > _______________________________________________ --- ### John Smith *11 Dec 2008, 21:45 · in reply to Dave Tallman* Is there any evidence in the text for Severian spending a year with the Ascians? Or is this a doctrine, like the Immaculate Conception, that is derived by clever reasoning? Best wishes, Jack > --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Dave Tallman wrote: > From: Dave Tallman > Subject: Re: (urth) Severian among the Ascians > To: urth at lists.urth.net > Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 2:33 PM > David Stockhoff wrote: >> Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year >> among the Ascians. >> >> Does anyone know when this is thought to have >> occurred? > It must be after he became Autarch (1 S.R.) and before > leaving for > Briah (10 S.R.). The most likely scenario is that he was > captured > while leading a battle against the Ascians. Just like the > first time > he and the old Autarch were captured, he wouldn't have > been recognized > as Autarch. He was enslaved by them for about a year. > _______________________________________________ --- ### Son of Witz *11 Dec 2008, 21:54 · follows John Smith* > David Stockhoff wrote: >> Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians. >> >> Does anyone know when this is thought to have occurred? My biggest problem with Lexicon Urthus is that he throws out some wild suggestions and then often doesn't cite any text that supports it. I love the speculation, but lets back it up. Of course there are many great things about the L.U. ~witz --- ### Dave Tallman *11 Dec 2008, 23:20 · follows Son of Witz* Son of Witz wrote: My biggest problem with Lexicon Urthus is that he throws out some wild > suggestions and then often doesn't cite any text that supports it. I love > the speculation, but lets back it up. Of course there are many great things > about the L.U. L.U. does give a reference on this one under "History of Urth" in the timeline. It's UotNS, Chapter 51. It says Sev spent a year among the Ascians, but not that he was a slave. The part comes from a Wolfe interview, referenced here: http://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2007-July/008043.html --- ### brunians at brunians.org *11 Dec 2008, 23:26 · in reply to Adam Thornton* > On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:17 PM, David Stockhoff wrote: >> Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians. >> Does anyone know when this is thought to have occurred? > I'm reminded of the Mormon claim that Jesus spent some of the Missing > Years in America. Who knows? I believe that if you had the right connections you could get a boat in the Middle East that was going to America, or would meet up with one that did. . --- ### brunians at brunians.org *11 Dec 2008, 23:43 · in reply to Jeffrey Brent McBeth* >> I'm reminded of the Mormon claim that Jesus spent some of the Missing >> Years in America. > I'm assuming that by Missing Years, you mean between age 8 and 30. The > Mormon claim is actually that Jesus spent time in America after his > resurrection. There are, apparently, (according to modern, Christian Polynesians) pre-Christian Polynesian stories about some white guy going around on a big boat around the time of Christ and doing miracles. Also, and I don't think there is a connection, large numbers of Tongans are Mormons (the official Church is Weslayan, and there are also a lot of Catholics in Tonga). . --- ### David Stockhoff *11 Dec 2008, 23:55 · follows brunians at brunians.org* Sounds likely---thanks! > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:33:47 -0700 > From: "Dave Tallman" > Subject: Re: (urth) Severian among the Ascians > To: urth at lists.urth.net > Message-ID: > <1bf4dd40812111133s3bb56290m97a6102eb644f3c5 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > David Stockhoff wrote: >> Lexicon Urthis suggests that Severian spent a year among the Ascians. >> >> Does anyone know when this is thought to have occurred? > > > It must be after he became Autarch (1 S.R.) and before leaving for > Briah (10 S.R.). The most likely scenario is that he was captured > while leading a battle against the Ascians. Just like the first time > he and the old Autarch were captured, he wouldn't have been recognized > as Autarch. He was enslaved by them for about a year. --- ### David Stockhoff *12 Dec 2008, 15:32 · follows David Stockhoff* The text is here: Again I endured my imprisonment in the jungle ziggurat by Vodalus, the year I had spent among the Ascians, my flight from the white wolves in the Secret House; and a thousand similiar terrors, until at last it seemed to me that a demon desired that I surrender my miserable existence to Apu-Punchau, and that the demon was myself. Wolfe is here: Wolfe: "There was the time when Severian encountered assassins in the Secret House who had come to kill Ymar, an autarch a chiliad dead. I may write about that sometime. And the year he spent as a slave of the Ascians. But I doubt that either will make it into print." Since this was in 1982, it was before he wrote TUotNS, in which Severian does indeed meet a corpse of an assassin who comes to life as he watches, then presumably stabs Valeria. > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:20:59 -0700 > From: "Dave Tallman" > Subject: Re: (urth) Severian among the Ascians > To: urth at lists.urth.net > Message-ID: > <1bf4dd40812111520k2cf8a103q494286aaa130ce6e at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Son of Witz wrote: > > My biggest problem with Lexicon Urthus is that he throws out some wild >> suggestions and then often doesn't cite any text that supports it. I love >> the speculation, but lets back it up. Of course there are many great things >> about the L.U. > > L.U. does give a reference on this one under "History of Urth" in the > timeline. It's UotNS, Chapter 51. It says Sev spent a year among the > Ascians, but not that he was a slave. The part comes from a Wolfe > interview, referenced here: > http://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2007-July/008043.html ---