{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5279", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5279, "subject": "OT: Vance Autobiography", "messages": 38, "voices": 18, "first": "2008-12-15T15:06:19+00:00", "last": "2009-03-17T16:32:24+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<44fb53d10812150706r3a9dd551n38032e176ec7b46d@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-12-15T15:06:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I remember there was some discussion a while back of Jack Vance's\nautobiography. Apparently Subterranean Press is publishing it in 2009.\nI'm guessing I won't be the only member of the Urth list to order a\ncopy. No word yet as to whether or not this is a Subterranean\nexclusive, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were: I doubt there's a\nhuge market for it.\n\nhttp://subterraneanpress.com/index.php/2008/12/14/new-robert-block-and-jack-vance-titles-just-acquired/\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<374366.67720.qm@web37607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-12-15T15:14:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10812150706r3a9dd551n38032e176ec7b46d@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Speaking of Vance, who else has written \"dying earth\" stories? I know we like to call it a subgenre, but how widespread is it, really?\n\nThe only other example I can think of offhand is Michael Shea's \"sequels\" to Vance's series.\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: Matthew Keeley \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Monday, December 15, 2008 9:06:19 AM\nSubject: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\n\nI remember there was some discussion a while back of Jack Vance's\nautobiography. Apparently Subterranean Press is publishing it in 2009.\nI'm guessing I won't be the only member of the Urth list to order a\ncopy. No word yet as to whether or not this is a Subterranean \nexclusive, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were: I doubt there's a\nhuge market for it.\n\nhttp://subterraneanpress.com/index.php/2008/12/14/new-robert-block-and-jack-vance-titles-just-acquired/\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<725C4E99-BE38-46E3-8183-4D59E5E80AA2@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-12-15T15:44:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<374366.67720.qm@web37607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 15, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Craig Brewer wrote:\nSpeaking of Vance, who else has written \"dying earth\" stories? I \nknow we like to call it a subgenre, but how widespread is it, really?\n\nThe only other example I can think of offhand is Michael Shea's \n\"sequels\" to Vance's series." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Clark Ashton Smith? Those are more, uh, prequels, of course.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10812150814g2786b4e2o280a99bf87e08d4d@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-12-15T16:14:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<374366.67720.qm@web37607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Craig Brewer wrote:\nSpeaking of Vance, who else has written \"dying earth\" stories? I know we like to call it a subgenre, but how widespread is it, really?\n\nThe only other example I can think of offhand is Michael Shea's \"sequels\" to Vance's series." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land?\n\nAnd of course there is that upcoming Vance tribute anthology, Songs of\nthe Dying Earth.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<49469114.1080802@doubtfulpalace.com>", "from": { "name": "Tim Walters", "address": "walters at doubtfulpalace.com" }, "date": "2008-12-15T17:17:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10812150814g2786b4e2o280a99bf87e08d4d@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Matthew Keeley wrote:\nOn Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Craig Brewer wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Speaking of Vance, who else has written \"dying earth\" stories?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Aside from the aforementioned Smith and Hodgson:\n\nH.G. Wells, _The Time Machine_\nJohn Campbell, \"Twilight\"\nBrian Aldiss, _Hothouse_ (aka _The Long Afternoon of Earth_)\nRichard Lupoff, _One Million Centuries_\nArthur C. Clarke, \"Against the Fall of Night\"\nM. John Harrison, _The Pastel City_ (and other Viriconium books)\nMichael Moorcock, _An Alien Heat_ (and the rest of the series)\nOlaf Stapledon, _Last and First Men_\n\nThere a lot of differences among these books and stories, but all \ninvolve far-future decline." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | The Doubtful Palace | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<501368.52111.qm@web37602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-12-15T17:19:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<49469114.1080802@doubtfulpalace.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah, thanks! This is great. Can't believe I forgot about Virconium...\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: Tim Walters \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Monday, December 15, 2008 11:17:08 AM\nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Matthew Keeley wrote:\nOn Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Craig Brewer wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Speaking of Vance, who else has written \"dying earth\" stories?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Aside from the aforementioned Smith and Hodgson:\n\nH.G. Wells, _The Time Machine_\nJohn Campbell, \"Twilight\"\nBrian Aldiss, _Hothouse_ (aka _The Long Afternoon of Earth_)\nRichard Lupoff, _One Million Centuries_\nArthur C. Clarke, \"Against the Fall of Night\"\nM. John Harrison, _The Pastel City_ (and other Viriconium books)\nMichael Moorcock, _An Alien Heat_ (and the rest of the series)\nOlaf Stapledon, _Last and First Men_\n\nThere a lot of differences among these books and stories, but all involve far-future decline." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | The Doubtful Palace | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-12-15T17:19:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<501368.52111.qm@web37602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So I've never read any Vance. I see that The Dying Earth is influential to Wolfe. Worth reading? I saw a Dying Earth compendium, is that worth bothering with?\n\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Matthew Keeley [mailto:matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com]\nSent: Monday, December 15, 2008 07:06 AM\nTo: 'The Urth Mailing List'\nSubject: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\n\nI remember there was some discussion a while back of Jack Vance's\nautobiography. Apparently Subterranean Press is publishing it in 2009.\nI'm guessing I won't be the only member of the Urth list to order a\ncopy. No word yet as to whether or not this is a Subterranean\nexclusive, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were: I doubt there's a\nhuge market for it.\n\nhttp://subterraneanpress.com/index.php/2008/12/14/new-robert-block-and-jack-vance-titles-just-acquired/\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<826920B2-273F-4836-8F4B-9991E38AC9F6@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-12-15T17:27:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 15, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Son of Witz wrote:\nSo I've never read any Vance. I see that The Dying Earth is \ninfluential to Wolfe. Worth reading? I saw a Dying Earth \ncompendium, is that worth bothering with?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2008-12-15T17:28:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10812150814g2786b4e2o280a99bf87e08d4d@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Matthew Keeley writes: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And some humble ornaments thereto \n\n\nhttp://www.thenightland.co.uk \n\n\n - hartshorn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<18879.198.1229364877.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>", "from": { "name": "Tim Walters", "address": "walters at doubtfulpalace.com" }, "date": "2008-12-15T18:14:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So I've never read any Vance. I see that The Dying Earth is influential to\nWolfe. Worth reading?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, very much so. _The Eyes Of The Overworld_, set in the same milieu, is\nalso excellent." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<39ed084f0812170940r4b79d197y11b451fddd788c47@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Groves", "address": "matthewalangroves at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-12-17T17:40:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Son of Witz wrote:\nSo I've never read any Vance. I see that The Dying Earth is influential to\nWolfe. Worth reading? I saw a Dying Earth compendium, is that worth\nbothering with?\n\n~witz" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Actually, Witz, given your reaction to Wolfe and PKD, I wonder what Vance\nwill have to offer you. Vance's artistry seems to operate almost entirely\nat the level of style. Have you read _A Voyage to Arcturus_ or C.S. Lewis's\nSpace Trilogy? I don't exactly recommend them, but I do think you might\nfind them interesting." } ] }, { "message_id": "<93d4039f0812170942k12a55e50y9b6ed70e302e445a@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-12-17T17:42:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<39ed084f0812170940r4b79d197y11b451fddd788c47@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I, ah, agree with this.\n\nI read The Dying Earth entirely because of Wolfe and this list, and I\nfound it not to be too my taste." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/17/08, Matthew Groves wrote:\nOn Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Son of Witz \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "So I've never read any Vance. I see that The Dying Earth is influential to\nWolfe. Worth reading? I saw a Dying Earth compendium, is that worth\nbothering with?\n\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Actually, Witz, given your reaction to Wolfe and PKD, I wonder what Vance\nwill have to offer you. Vance's artistry seems to operate almost entirely\nat the level of style. Have you read _A Voyage to Arcturus_ or C.S. Lewis's\nSpace Trilogy? I don't exactly recommend them, but I do think you might\nfind them interesting.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-12-17T17:50:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<93d4039f0812170942k12a55e50y9b6ed70e302e445a@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for the comments on Vance.\nI'm okay with style stuff, and more standard genre works.\n(I LOVES me some Conan)\nIt's just probably not the sort of stuff that inspires me to get online and try to hash out what the hell is going on with some other readers.\nI suppose there is a lot more I should read first.\nthanks,\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: John Watkins [mailto:john.watkins04 at gmail.com]\nSent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 09:42 AM\nTo: 'The Urth Mailing List'\nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\n\nI, ah, agree with this.\n\nI read The Dying Earth entirely because of Wolfe and this list, and I\nfound it not to be too my taste.\n\nOn 12/17/08, Matthew Groves wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Son of Witz \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "So I've never read any Vance. I see that The Dying Earth is influential to\nWolfe. Worth reading? I saw a Dying Earth compendium, is that worth\nbothering with?\n\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Actually, Witz, given your reaction to Wolfe and PKD, I wonder what Vance\nwill have to offer you. Vance's artistry seems to operate almost entirely\nat the level of style. Have you read _A Voyage to Arcturus_ or C.S. Lewis's\nSpace Trilogy? I don't exactly recommend them, but I do think you might\nfind them interesting.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<37532.198.1229537824.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>", "from": { "name": "Tim Walters", "address": "walters at doubtfulpalace.com" }, "date": "2008-12-17T18:17:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's just probably not the sort of stuff that inspires me to get online\nand try to hash out what the hell is going on with some other readers." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For that, I would recommend John Crowley, especially _Engine Summer_ and\n_Little, Big_." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<49498C6A.8040906@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2008-12-17T23:34:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<37532.198.1229537824.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I will second that, on both counts. And add The Deep and Beasts, as well." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMessage: 1\nDate: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:17:04 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: \"Tim Walters\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nMessage-ID: <37532.198.1229537824.squirrel at o2.hostbaby.com>\nContent-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "It's just probably not the sort of stuff that inspires me to get online\nand try to hash out what the hell is going on with some other readers." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " \n\nFor that, I would recommend John Crowley, especially _Engine Summer_ and\n_Little, Big_.\n\n-- Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com ------------------------------" } ] }, { "message_id": "<531757.87053.qm@web37603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-12-18T01:04:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<49498C6A.8040906@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Very different, but if you like \"mystery\" sf/fantasy, at least in the sense of starting without a clue and slowly having to puzzle your way toward figuring out what's going on, Steven Ericson's \"Malazan Book of the Fallen\" series is a fun read. It's a very different kind of read from Wolfe. But if you find yourself at all attracted to the the Robert Jordan/George R. R. Martin 10 book epics, this is the best of the bunch, imo. It has its problems, but I also find that it has its fair bit of puzzling that increases the fun.\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: David Stockhoff \nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:34:02 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\n\nI will second that, on both counts. And add The Deep and Beasts, as well." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMessage: 1\nDate: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:17:04 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: \"Tim Walters\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography" } ] }, { "message_id": "<272706220812171730g34680b57lf1609ebaf447cf75@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-12-18T01:30:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<531757.87053.qm@web37603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I never could get into Erikson's stuff, and I picked it up because it had a\nblurb from Stephen Donaldson on the cover, and I like Donaldson's work.\n Erikson's characterization wasn't as sharp as Martin's, his prose nowhere\nnear as solid as Jordan's, and he lacked Martin's ability to work in\ndifferent narrative voices to the same story. I felt it was a shame,\nbecause it seemed like the rarest of all birds, good epic fantasy (in terms\nof what he wanted to do with the series, which from reading websites,\nWikipedia, etc., and talking to my friends, seems rather awesome). I hate\nto sound like one of those guys who always says that the oldies are the\nbest, but for that kind of fantasy, I find Glen Cook to be an undisputed\nmaster. And what luck! You can get his \"Black Company\" novels in anthology\nformat now. I have both \"The Chronicles of the Black Company\" and \"The\nBooks of the South\" on my bookshelf right now and they're both excellent.\nFor modern authors of epic fantasy that have thrilled me, Patrick Rothfuss'\n\"The Name of the Wind\" was a good exercise in frame stories, extraordinarily\nwell written and very easy to get into. Scott Lynch's Locke Lamora books\nremind me a lot of one of my absolute favorite authors, Fritz Leiber. And\nfinally, Joshua Palmatier's \"Throne of Amenkor\" series is refreshingly\noriginal and a blast to read.\n\nLane" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:04 PM, Craig Brewer wrote:\nVery different, but if you like \"mystery\" sf/fantasy, at least in the sense\nof starting without a clue and slowly having to puzzle your way toward\nfiguring out what's going on, Steven Ericson's \"Malazan Book of the Fallen\"\nseries is a fun read. It's a very different kind of read from Wolfe. But if\nyou find yourself at all attracted to the the Robert Jordan/George R. R.\nMartin 10 book epics, this is the best of the bunch, imo. It has its\nproblems, but I also find that it has its fair bit of puzzling that\nincreases the fun.\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: David Stockhoff \nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:34:02 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\n\nI will second that, on both counts. And add The Deep and Beasts, as well.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMessage: 1\nDate: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:17:04 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: \"Tim Walters\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography" } ] }, { "message_id": "<839037.34740.qm@web37607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-12-18T01:51:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<272706220812171730g34680b57lf1609ebaf447cf75@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I entirely agree. For style, Erikson is NOT your man. (And that made me seriously hesitate mentioning him on this list.) And, like you said, his characterization is inconsistent, which is a real problem in books with upwards of 200 characters sometimes. Still, the fun there is the world building/history/politics. The problem is that he forgot to populate it with interesting people. So I read it like fake history (Silmarillion-style), and I can overlook the shortcomings. (Although I think that even Silmarillion had its stylistic charms.)\n\nAnd I've heard only good things about Rothfuss, too. But I always have a problem starting a series before it's finished. You never know if the author is going to die before finishing it (e.g., Robert Jordan)." } ] }, { "message_id": "<29692.198.1229565628.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>", "from": { "name": "Tim Walters", "address": "walters at doubtfulpalace.com" }, "date": "2008-12-18T02:00:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<531757.87053.qm@web37603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "at least in the\nsense of starting without a clue and slowly having to puzzle your way\ntoward figuring out what's going on" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "John Clute's _Appleseed_ is great for that vertiginous total-immersion\nfeeling.\n\n(Add me to the list of readers who needed a few shies before leaping the\nhurdle of _Gravity's Rainbow_. Loved it by the end, though.)" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<494A437F.8090000@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-12-18T12:35:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<93d4039f0812170942k12a55e50y9b6ed70e302e445a@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "John Watkins wrote:\nI read The Dying Earth entirely because of Wolfe and this list, and I\nfound it not to be too my taste.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I read and enjoyed it a long time ago (before reading much Wolfe), and \nalso his \"Demon Prince\" series, which I liked for style and \nculture-building.\n\n From this list, I started reading some Stephenson. I loved \"The Diamond \nAge\" and \"Anathem\" -- both have strong techno-nerd plots that lead into \nesoteric mysteries by the end. He also has a weird sense of humor that \nsometimes works for me and sometimes not. I tried to start \"Snow Crash\" \nbut found it too absurd. A protagonist named Protagonist? No way." } ] }, { "message_id": "<494A7F09.9010401@doubtfulpalace.com>", "from": { "name": "Tim Walters", "address": "walters at doubtfulpalace.com" }, "date": "2008-12-18T16:49:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<49469114.1080802@doubtfulpalace.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just remembered another Dying Earth entry: the excellent, strange, and \nrelatively obscure _Earthchild_ by Doris Piserchia." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | The Doubtful Palace | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3C1E72C7-B83F-48E0-AD55-8E20E9D3D32E@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-12-18T17:04:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<494A7F09.9010401@doubtfulpalace.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 18, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Tim Walters wrote:\nJust remembered another Dying Earth entry: the excellent, strange, \nand relatively obscure _Earthchild_ by Doris Piserchia." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I just remembered C.J. Cherryh's _Sunfall_.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<494A82D0.4000901@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2008-12-18T17:05:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<3C1E72C7-B83F-48E0-AD55-8E20E9D3D32E@io.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "that's HIRO Protagonist, to you! (At least the Japanese name is plausible.)\n\nSnow Crash is much like those movies, especially action comedies it seems, that are truly great for the first half and then fall into cliched resolutions. It was also sloppily executed in many ways. But Stephenson's dark laissez faire world is effective." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\n\nMessage: 8\nDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 05:35:11 -0700\nFrom: Dave Tallman \nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nMessage-ID: <494A437F.8090000 at gmail.com>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed\n\nJohn Watkins wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I read The Dying Earth entirely because of Wolfe and this list, and I\nfound it not to be too my taste.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " \nI read and enjoyed it a long time ago (before reading much Wolfe), and \nalso his \"Demon Prince\" series, which I liked for style and \nculture-building.\n\n From this list, I started reading some Stephenson. I loved \"The Diamond \nAge\" and \"Anathem\" -- both have strong techno-nerd plots that lead into \nesoteric mysteries by the end. He also has a weird sense of humor that \nsometimes works for me and sometimes not. I tried to start \"Snow Crash\" \nbut found it too absurd. A protagonist named Protagonist? No way.\n\n\n\n------------------------------" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20081218221508.NZTH19141.eastrmmtao102.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net>", "from": { "name": "James B. Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2008-12-18T22:15:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<494A82D0.4000901@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Anybody know why Gene W. is not among the authors in Songs of the \nDying Earth? Seems to me that's a place he'd really like to be included.\n\nPatera Nutria\n\n\n\nJames B. Jordan\nDirector, Biblical Horizons\nBox 1096\nNiceville, FL 32588\nhttp://www.biblicalhorizons.com " } ] }, { "message_id": "<13042.67.142.130.29.1229643013.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-12-18T23:30:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<20081218221508.NZTH19141.eastrmmtao102.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Same reason he hasn't won a Hugo.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Anybody know why Gene W. is not among the authors in Songs of the\nDying Earth? Seems to me that's a place he'd really like to be included.\n\nPatera Nutria\n\n\n\nJames B. Jordan\nDirector, Biblical Horizons\nBox 1096\nNiceville, FL 32588\nhttp://www.biblicalhorizons.com\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10812181603y7a67f4b0ld56bc23174e877d1@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-12-19T00:03:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<20081218221508.NZTH19141.eastrmmtao102.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:15 PM, James B. Jordan wrote:\nAnybody know why Gene W. is not among the authors in Songs of the Dying\nEarth? Seems to me that's a place he'd really like to be included.\n\nPatera Nutria" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I gather he was asked to contribute, but declined? I think George R.R.\nMartin said something to that effect in the comments section on his\nblog.\n\nOdd - Wolfe has done so many pastiches and homages in the past. He\neven did a story with Robert E. Howard's Kull (Six From Atlantis) a\nfew years back. (For the curious, it wasn't one of Wofle's best, it\nwas very short, and the anthology is out-of-print -\nhttp://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=3363)\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Crossley", "address": "ishmael at drizzle.com" }, "date": "2008-12-19T00:27:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10812181603y7a67f4b0ld56bc23174e877d1@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think it's that odd. The man is what, 77 years old now? We know he\nhas more than one project in progress in his own voice, so I expect he's\njust husbanding his available time.\n\nJames" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/18/08 4:03 PM, \"Matthew Keeley\" wrote:\nOn Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:15 PM, James B. Jordan wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Anybody know why Gene W. is not among the authors in Songs of the Dying\nEarth? Seems to me that's a place he'd really like to be included.\n\nPatera Nutria" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I gather he was asked to contribute, but declined? I think George R.R.\nMartin said something to that effect in the comments section on his\nblog.\n\nOdd - Wolfe has done so many pastiches and homages in the past. He\neven did a story with Robert E. Howard's Kull (Six From Atlantis) a\nfew years back. (For the curious, it wasn't one of Wofle's best, it\nwas very short, and the anthology is out-of-print -\nhttp://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=3363)\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<494B004E.9030500@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2008-12-19T02:00:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Pray, tell!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\n\nMessage: 5\nDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:30:13 -0500 (EST)\nFrom: brunians at brunians.org\nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nMessage-ID: <13042.67.142.130.29.1229643013.squirrel at brunians.org>\nContent-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1\n\nSame reason he hasn't won a Hugo.\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "<10818.72.171.0.147.1229653366.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-12-19T02:22:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<494B004E.9030500@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't know why, personally.\n\nIt is a mystery.\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Pray, tell!\n\n------------------------------\n\nMessage: 5\nDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:30:13 -0500 (EST)\nFrom: brunians at brunians.org\nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nMessage-ID: <13042.67.142.130.29.1229643013.squirrel at brunians.org>\nContent-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1\n\nSame reason he hasn't won a Hugo.\n\n\n.\n\n\n\n---\navast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.\nVirus Database (VPS): 081218-0, 12/18/2008\nTested on: 12/18/2008 9:00:47 PM\navast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.\nhttp://www.avast.com\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<93d4039f0812181901x5191a8ecn51a93cde5e8c0345@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-12-19T03:01:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<10818.72.171.0.147.1229653366.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hasn't written a best-seller?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/18/08, brunians at brunians.org wrote:\nI don't know why, personally.\n\nIt is a mystery.\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Pray, tell!\n\n------------------------------\n\nMessage: 5\nDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:30:13 -0500 (EST)\nFrom: brunians at brunians.org\nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nMessage-ID: <13042.67.142.130.29.1229643013.squirrel at brunians.org>\nContent-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1\n\nSame reason he hasn't won a Hugo.\n\n\n.\n\n\n\n---\navast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.\nVirus Database (VPS): 081218-0, 12/18/2008\nTested on: 12/18/2008 9:00:47 PM\navast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.\nhttp://www.avast.com\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<7020.72.171.0.147.1229657110.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2008-12-19T03:25:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<93d4039f0812181901x5191a8ecn51a93cde5e8c0345@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is a requirement?\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hasn't written a best-seller?\n\n\n\nOn 12/18/08, brunians at brunians.org wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I don't know why, personally.\n\nIt is a mystery.\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Pray, tell!\n\n------------------------------\n\nMessage: 5\nDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:30:13 -0500 (EST)\nFrom: brunians at brunians.org\nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nMessage-ID: <13042.67.142.130.29.1229643013.squirrel at brunians.org>\nContent-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1\n\nSame reason he hasn't won a Hugo.\n\n\n.\n\n\n\n---\navast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.\nVirus Database (VPS): 081218-0, 12/18/2008\nTested on: 12/18/2008 9:00:47 PM\navast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.\nhttp://www.avast.com\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "aaron", "address": "aaronsingleton at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-12-19T04:45:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<7020.72.171.0.147.1229657110.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I received a letter from Mr. Wolfe recently, and he expressed that his\nschedule was full. He also sent me a nifty copy of Strange Birds signed and\npersonalized as a 'thank you' for reading his work. He is a very cool\nperson.\n\n\n\n\nAaron Singleton" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2008-12-19T04:50:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<7020.72.171.0.147.1229657110.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 18, 2008, at 9:25 PM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:\nThis is a requirement?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hasn't written a best-seller?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Same reason he hasn't won a Hugo." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, pretty much.\n\nHugos are voted on by fandom (specifically, Worldcon members). Which \ndoes mean that a) a lot of people had to have read it, and b) a lot of \npeople had to have liked it.\n\nIf I were being really snotty I'd say something about Wolfe's work \nclearly being too erudite for the mass of red-Lycra-wearing mouth- \nbreathing Star Trek Reenactors, or something like that, but I'm not. \nHell, I've gone to cons and enjoyed myself too. I'll just say that \nwinning a Hugo does require a mass appeal that, perhaps, Wolfe lacks.\n\nHas he won a Nebula? Why, yes. The Nebula, on the other hand, is \nvoted on by SFWA members.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<494B33A1.8050701@doubtfulpalace.com>", "from": { "name": "Tim Walters", "address": "walters at doubtfulpalace.com" }, "date": "2008-12-19T05:39:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Adam Thornton wrote:\nHugos are voted on by fandom (specifically, Worldcon members). Which \ndoes mean that a) a lot of people had to have read it, and b) a lot of \npeople had to have liked it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Surprisingly few Worldcon members actually vote. \"Memorare\" lost \n182-146-124 on the first round (due to the Hugo's instant-runoff rules, \nit came in fourth rather than third).\n\nAlso consider that the nominees were available for free in electronic \neditions to Worldcon members, and that it's generally considered poor \nform to vote without reading them.\n\nSome years the good guys mostly win--in 2008, the Wolfe loss was the \nonly one I disagreed with. Some years, gag me with a spoon.\n\nThere's a lot of luck involved. Wolfe just hasn't gotten the break he \nneeds yet." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | The Doubtful Palace | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<494B34A8.401@doubtfulpalace.com>", "from": { "name": "Tim Walters", "address": "walters at doubtfulpalace.com" }, "date": "2008-12-19T05:44:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<494B33A1.8050701@doubtfulpalace.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters wrote:\n\n[stuff about the Hugos]\n\nI should add that anyone who wants can join as a non-attending member \nfor a relatively low fee, and vote. (Please read all the nominees and \nvote based on those stories, not past glories!)" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | The Doubtful Palace | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "JBarach at aol.com", "address": "jbarach at aol.com" }, "date": "2008-12-19T07:03:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<494B34A8.401@doubtfulpalace.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So ... does it mean anything that Wolfe doesn't have a story in any of the \n2008 Year's Best Fantasy or Science Fiction volumes? Did he just not publish \nany good stories this year? Or does this reflect some shift in the \nperception of what's best out there? Is there a story that the editors overlooked \nthat should have been included in a Year's Best? \n \nJohn\n**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, \nGmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. \n(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)" } ] }, { "message_id": "<494BBE31.1040002@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2008-12-19T15:30:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<494A437F.8090000@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dave Tallman wrote:\n From this list, I started reading some Stephenson. I loved \"The \nDiamond\nAge\" and \"Anathem\" -- both have strong techno-nerd plots that lead into \nesoteric mysteries by the end. He also has a weird sense of humor that \nsometimes works for me and sometimes not. I tried to start \"Snow Crash\" \nbut found it too absurd. A protagonist named Protagonist? No way." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"Hiro Protagonist\" is self-referential pseudonym that is also his brand \nname, and is part of his strategy to minimize identify theft." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<51147.16825.qm@web63904.mail.re1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Fred Kiesche", "address": "recursive_loop at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-03-17T16:32:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: Vance Autobiography", "in_reply_to": "<49469114.1080802@doubtfulpalace.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "To follow up with \"Against the Fall of Night\", I'd also look to Clarke's \"revision\" (re-imagining?), \"The City and the Stars\".\n\nAlso, in a similar vein, his novelette \"The Lion of Commarre\". How about \"Childhood's End\"? Or the novelized/expanded \"Songs of Distant Earth\"?\n\nFor Stapledon: \"Last Men in London\" is a book that takes place within the timeline of \"First and Last Men\". And \"Starmaker\", encompassing a lifecycle of a universe, might be worth looking at.\n\n\nF.P. Kiesche III\n\"Ah Mr. Gibbon, another damned, fat, square book. Always, scribble, scribble, scribble, eh?\" (The Duke of Gloucester, on being presented with Volume 2 of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.) Blogging at The Lensman's Children and TexasBestGrok!\n\n--- On Mon, 12/15/08, Tim Walters wrote:\n\nFrom: Tim Walters \nSubject: Re: (urth) OT: Vance Autobiography\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:17 PM" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Matthew Keeley wrote:\nOn Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Craig Brewer \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Speaking of Vance, who else has written \"dying earth\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "stories?\n\nAside from the aforementioned Smith and Hodgson:\n\nH.G. Wells, _The Time Machine_\nJohn Campbell, \"Twilight\"\nBrian Aldiss, _Hothouse_ (aka _The Long Afternoon of Earth_)\nRichard Lupoff, _One Million Centuries_\nArthur C. Clarke, \"Against the Fall of Night\"\nM. John Harrison, _The Pastel City_ (and other Viriconium books)\nMichael Moorcock, _An Alien Heat_ (and the rest of the series)\nOlaf Stapledon, _Last and First Men_\n\nThere a lot of differences among these books and stories, but all involve\nfar-future decline." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | The Doubtful Palace | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] } ] }