{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5292", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5292, "subject": "intractability", "messages": 5, "voices": 5, "first": "2008-12-24T18:03:59+00:00", "last": "2008-12-26T21:45:18+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<959873.83778.qm@web58203.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2008-12-24T18:03:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) intractability", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Son of Witz -\nGod is not necessarily a character in Long Sun, since the enlightenment (minor spoiler but not much of one) of the outsider can have other psychic or preprogrammed explanations (the male and female voice whispering in Silk's ear and his status as special embryo posits one possible suggestion, as are his frequent claims that he does not trust the Outsider completely.)\n\nIt is wrong to say He does not exist in Wolfe, but often the material machinations of evil serve are sublimated to His purpose rather than a result of direct action on His part.\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2008-12-24T18:21:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) intractability", "in_reply_to": "<959873.83778.qm@web58203.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "sorry, I skipped your spoiler.\nstarting Long Sun this week.\n~m" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Marc Aramini [mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com]\nSent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:03 AM\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: (urth) intractability\n\nSon of Witz -\nGod is not necessarily a character in Long Sun, since the enlightenment (minor spoiler but not much of one) of the outsider can have other psychic or preprogrammed explanations (the male and female voice whispering in Silk's ear and his status as special embryo posits one possible suggestion, as are his frequent claims that he does not trust the Outsider completely.)\n\nIt is wrong to say He does not exist in Wolfe, but often the material machinations of evil serve are sublimated to His purpose rather than a result of direct action on His part.\n\n\n \n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<325955.53914.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2008-12-25T13:50:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) intractability", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "good luck...don't get trapped in the tunnels\n\n\n???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Wed, 12/24/08, Son of Witz wrote:\n\nFrom: Son of Witz \nSubject: Re: (urth) intractability\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 10:21 AM\n\nsorry, I skipped your spoiler.\nstarting Long Sun this week.\n~m" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Marc Aramini [mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com]\nSent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:03 AM\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: (urth) intractability\n\nSon of Witz -\nGod is not necessarily a character in Long Sun, since the enlightenment\n(minor spoiler but not much of one) of the outsider can have other psychic or\npreprogrammed explanations (the male and female voice whispering in\nSilk's ear and his status as special embryo posits one possible\nsuggestion, as are his frequent claims that he does not trust the Outsider\ncompletely.)\n\nIt is wrong to say He does not exist in Wolfe, but often the material\nmachinations of evil serve are sublimated to His purpose rather than a result of\ndirect action on His part.\n\n\n \n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "<81c420fa0812260648l208971cv69a6bfc39abd3580@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Greg Bates", "address": "tedkennedyrolls at gmail.com" }, "date": "2008-12-26T14:48:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) intractability", "in_reply_to": "<325955.53914.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I just started Short Sun a couple of days ago. Hope to finally finish the\nwhole Cycle. :-)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Stuart Hamm wrote:\ngood luck...don't get trapped in the tunnels\n\n Mobile (415) 786-3624\n Skype stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On *Wed, 12/24/08, Son of Witz * wrote:\n\nFrom: Son of Witz \nSubject: Re: (urth) intractability\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 10:21 AM\n\n\nsorry, I skipped your spoiler.\nstarting Long Sun this week.\n~m" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Marc Aramini [mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com]\nSent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:03 AM\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: (urth) intractability\n\nSon of Witz -\nGod is not necessarily a character in Long Sun, since the enlightenment\n(minor spoiler but not much of one) of the outsider can have other psychic or\npreprogrammed explanations (the male and female voice whispering in\nSilk's ear and his status as special embryo posits one possible\nsuggestion, as are his frequent claims that he does not trust the Outsider\ncompletely.)\n\nIt is wrong to say He does not exist in Wolfe, but often the material\nmachinations of evil serve are sublimated to His purpose rather than a result of\ndirect action on His part.\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4955506E.8050905@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-12-26T21:45:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) intractability", "in_reply_to": "<959873.83778.qm@web58203.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc Aramini wrote:\nIt is wrong to say He does not exist in Wolfe, but often the material machinations of evil serve are sublimated to His purpose rather than a result of direct action on His part.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It might be useful to compare Long Sun/Short Sun with Pirate Freedom, \nwhere God seems to take a direct hand (indeed, a divine miracle seems to \nbe the only available explanation for the time-travel). Is that story \nintractable, even if (as I theorize) Bram Burt is another time traveler \nand Chris is his son? It seems like it could be, but it's probably \ntractable with multiple linear rewrites.\n\n1) Burt goes back in time from the convent, does rather badly, and \nnearly dies. He arrives back at the day of his birth, older and wiser.\n2) With advance warning from his older counterpart, Burt2 trains and \nprepares, and brings back LeSage as an accomplice to help him. This time \nhe becomes a successful pirate, and leaves treasure for himself to pick up.\n3) Burt2, now a wealthy gangster, decides to have a son, Chris. He \ndoesn't want his son in the same business, so he arranges that Chris \nwill be at the convent for the time-shift. Burt3 will try to look after him.\n4) Multiple iterations are built up for Chris, as Burt and LeSage learn \nfrom experience when and how to help him. Chris eventually lives to find \nthe woman of his dreams, Novia.\n5) The first time this happens, Chris has to leave Novia alone or with \nsomeone untrustworthy. He decides to go back and help her, as Ignacio.\n\nComparing BoTLS and PF, I would say Silk is a good man in a bad \nreligion, and Chris is a bad man in a good religion. When they are \nexposed to the real world, Silk loses his innocence and Chris reforms." } ] } ] }