{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5293", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5293, "subject": "AEG: Cassie in love", "messages": 7, "voices": 3, "first": "2008-12-24T18:17:38+00:00", "last": "2009-01-04T12:38:35+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<20081224181729.C27008039@diego.dreamhost.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar / UKG", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2008-12-24T18:17:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Cassie in love", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi all,\n\nThis has been playing on my mind for some time now, and I haven't \nseen anyone else post about it yet, so:\n\nDoes Cassie genuinely love Reis / Rosenquist? We assume she's in a \nlove triangle with him and Chase, but it seems to me at least equally \npossible that she's true to Chase all along and is only ever feigning \nbeing in love with Reis.\n\nCassie says that she loves him, and demonstrates it sufficiently well \nto convince him and others. But we know that she is both a talented \nactress and also a habitual and fluent liar.\n\nHer last words on the hopper, when no-one is listening, might be \ntestimony to a genuine love. But as she utters them while on her way \nto join Chase, that would seem to undercut any real sincerity implied.\n\nThoughts?\n\nbest wishes,\n\nMo\n\n\n# ~ # ~ #\n\nWolfeWiki now at:\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/ " } ] }, { "message_id": "<1bf4dd40812241448y78a2ffedq9eb4423fae105877@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2008-12-24T22:48:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Cassie in love", "in_reply_to": "<20081224181729.C27008039@diego.dreamhost.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mo Holkar wrote:\nHer last words on the hopper, when no-one is listening, might be\ntestimony to a genuine love. But as she utters them while on her way\nto join Chase, that would seem to undercut any real sincerity implied." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As you say, she has no audience here. I have to believe the love is real.\nEven if she does ultimately end up with Chase, it doesn't undercut the\nsincerity of her feelings. Bill is dead, after all.\n\nBut I wonder if she isn't going to Chase for some other reason. There are\nthree things he might do for her:\n1) Help get her glamour back. She says that's one of the reasons she is\ngoing.\n2) Help her travel in time, or get a message back in time, to save Bill's\nlife.\n3) Die, if she suspects Chase of having some hand in Bill's death." } ] }, { "message_id": "<20090102093941.10B1648044@diego.dreamhost.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar / UKG", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2009-01-02T09:36:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Cassie in love", "in_reply_to": "<1bf4dd40812241448y78a2ffedq9eb4423fae105877@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 22:48 24/12/2008, Dave Tallman wrote:\nBut I wonder if she isn't going to Chase for some other reason. \nThere are three things he might do for her:\n1) Help get her glamour back. She says that's one of the reasons she is going.\n2) Help her travel in time, or get a message back in time, to save \nBill's life.\n3) Die, if she suspects Chase of having some hand in Bill's death." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's interesting that her motivation for travelling is left so very \nopen. (By necessity, since we couldn't tust what she might say about \nit, but even so.)\n\nIn the Woldercan-as-Fairyland model, I guess the journey is her \nreward for coming through the trials of the story, and she can expect \nunchanging bliss rather than any kind of further sharp resolution \nsuch as killing Chase -- that sort of thing doesn't happen within Fairyland.\n\nbest wishes,\n\nMo\n\n\n# ~ # ~ #\n\nWolfeWiki now at:\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/ " } ] }, { "message_id": "<495E1EE3.5010304@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2009-01-02T14:04:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Cassie in love", "in_reply_to": "<20090102093941.10B1648044@diego.dreamhost.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mo Holkar wrote:\nIn the Woldercan-as-Fairyland model, I guess the journey is her \nreward for coming through the trials of the story, and she can expect \nunchanging bliss rather than any kind of further sharp resolution \nsuch as killing Chase -- that sort of thing doesn't happen within Fairyland.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is not the Fairyland of \"happily ever after,\" but a land of \ndangerous adventures. Cassie is advised to go armed and not to talk to \nthe fish. Wolfe's Fair Folk are never all that nice, whether in \nCastleview, the Wizard Knight, \"No Planets Strike,\" \"The Magic Animal,\" \nor AEG." } ] }, { "message_id": "<495EA64F.8070803@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2009-01-02T23:42:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Cassie in love", "in_reply_to": "<495E1EE3.5010304@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Indeed. Fairyland is the land of death, more or less." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\n\nMessage: 5\nDate: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:04:19 -0700\nFrom: Dave Tallman \nSubject: Re: (urth) AEG: Cassie in love\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nMessage-ID: <495E1EE3.5010304 at gmail.com>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed\n\nMo Holkar wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "In the Woldercan-as-Fairyland model, I guess the journey is her \nreward for coming through the trials of the story, and she can expect \nunchanging bliss rather than any kind of further sharp resolution \nsuch as killing Chase -- that sort of thing doesn't happen within Fairyland.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " \n\nThis is not the Fairyland of \"happily ever after,\" but a land of \ndangerous adventures. Cassie is advised to go armed and not to talk to \nthe fish. Wolfe's Fair Folk are never all that nice, whether in \nCastleview, the Wizard Knight, \"No Planets Strike,\" \"The Magic Animal,\" \nor AEG.\n\n\n\n\n------------------------------" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20090103101732.7B2EA48043@diego.dreamhost.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar / UKG", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2009-01-03T10:17:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Cassie in love", "in_reply_to": "<495EA64F.8070803@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 23:42 02/01/2009, you wrote:\nIndeed. Fairyland is the land of death, more or less." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But not a land where one can conduct personal vendettas -- that's the \npoint I was trying (rather unclearly) to make. When she arrives there \nCassie will have to accept things as they are, not hope to try and \ninfluence them.\n\nbest,\n\nMo\n\n\n# ~ # ~ #\n\nWolfeWiki now at:\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/ " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4960ADCB.8030205@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2009-01-04T12:38:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Cassie in love", "in_reply_to": "<20090103101732.7B2EA48043@diego.dreamhost.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mo Holkar wrote:\nBut not a land where one can conduct personal vendettas -- that's the \npoint I was trying (rather unclearly) to make. When she arrives there \nCassie will have to accept things as they are, not hope to try and \ninfluence them.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mortals can kill other mortals in Fairyland; Hwan Lee shot Jose Balanco \nin \"Castleview.\" Mortals can also kill monsters there; Able killed \nGrengarm in \"The Knight.\"\n\nOn the other hand, I don't really believe the vendetta theory. My \nassessment is that Gideon Chase isn't on the side of Chtulhu. The winged \nDeath's Visitors seem to be his allies (one appears to assist in \nCassie's transformation on p. 43: \"Behind him: great, dark wings.\") The \ncreatures warn Cassie about the Squid God and save her life. They tell \nher \"Trust those who love you... Only them\" (p. 235). That seems to mean \nto trust only them, along with Bill Reis and Gideon Chase.\n\nReis seems to have brought his troubles on himself. Chase didn't make \nhim set the Navy on the Storm King. His only responsibility is that Reis \nwouldn't have loved Cassie (and wanted to attack those who endangered \nher) without Chase's help. Cassie surely cannot want revenge for that." } ] } ] }