{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5297", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5297, "subject": "AEG: Gideon", "messages": 13, "voices": 6, "first": "2009-01-04T23:00:02+00:00", "last": "2009-01-07T18:35:28+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<002a01c96ec0$30ea2fc0$51cf4a0c@rclackey>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2009-01-04T23:00:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Gideon", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dave Tallman wrote:\nReis seems to have brought his troubles on himself. Chase didn't make\nhim set the Navy on the Storm King. His only responsibility is that Reis\nwouldn't have loved Cassie (and wanted to attack those who endangered\nher) without Chase's help. Cassie surely cannot want revenge for that." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree.\n\nI still wonder who shot Gid or, more to the point, who was behind the\nshooter. Gid had a late breakfast with Cassie the morning after the cast\nparty. At about that time, Reis took the poison bracelet back from Margaret.\nGid was shot early in the afternoon after dropping Cassie off at her\napartment. Within 24 hours after being shot, he learned that Reis was\nlooking for him to give him some help. So did Reis have a change of heart,\nas he did with Cassie, but too late to call off the shooter? Then why lie to\nCassie about not being responsible for the shooting and tell her that he\nwould find out who the shooter was? Also, Reis claimed that he preferred to\nwin people over to him, rather than kill them.\n\nOn a related note, apparently some time during the three-month gap between\nplays, he hired Gid's services at an even higher fee than for a past\nconsultation. Exactly what did he hire Gid to do? Deliver Cassie to him by\nbuying off Gid's affection for her?\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4961ED46.5030100@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2009-01-05T11:21:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Gideon", "in_reply_to": "<002a01c96ec0$30ea2fc0$51cf4a0c@rclackey>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nI still wonder who shot Gid or, more to the point, who was behind the\nshooter. Gid had a late breakfast with Cassie the morning after the cast\nparty. At about that time, Reis took the poison bracelet back from Margaret.\nGid was shot early in the afternoon after dropping Cassie off at her\napartment. Within 24 hours after being shot, he learned that Reis was\nlooking for him to give him some help. So did Reis have a change of heart,\nas he did with Cassie, but too late to call off the shooter? Then why lie to\nCassie about not being responsible for the shooting and tell her that he\nwould find out who the shooter was? Also, Reis claimed that he preferred to\nwin people over to him, rather than kill them.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Chase told Cassie his best ideas on who shot him on pp. 203-204.\n1) He was convinced it wasn't Reis, that Reis only wanted to get him \nmedical help and enlist him. Chase must have been certain of this or he \nwouldn't have been working for Reis.\n2) Chase didn't think it was the FBI because: they are better shots, \nthey only use violence when they have no choice, and they want him alive \nand active.\n\nThat leaves two other major players, who may be the same: ATF and the \nSquiddies. Both use violence without caution: the deaths of Norma Peiper \nand Brian Pickens show that. The ATF might be poor shots (if Scott was \nlying and Cassie was the intended victim). The Squiddie assassin \"Diana \nDiamond\" was definitely a poor shot (p. 252-253), since she fired \nmultiple times without killing anyone. She's a good candidate for \nChase's shooter. She admits to killing Brian Pickens, so she was in \nKingsport. I was hoping there would be a description of a facial scar \nthat could have come from a cleaver, but no such luck. Cthulhu recruits \nmay heal quickly." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On a related note, apparently some time during the three-month gap between\nplays, he hired Gid's services at an even higher fee than for a past\nconsultation. Exactly what did he hire Gid to do? Deliver Cassie to him by\nbuying off Gid's affection for her?\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Chase admitted to being hired to deliver Cassie, but not to loss of \naffection for her. He told her he loved her (p. 201). He just seemed to \nthink Reis was winning in that department, and was surprised by Cassie's \nkiss and her offer to let him spend the night." } ] }, { "message_id": "<001501c96f69$1e6737e0$5dd24a0c@rclackey>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2009-01-05T19:09:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Gideon", "in_reply_to": "<4961ED46.5030100@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dave Tallman wrote:\nThat leaves two other major players, who may be the same: ATF and the\nSquiddies. Both use violence without caution: the deaths of Norma Peiper\nand Brian Pickens show that. The ATF might be poor shots (if Scott was\nlying and Cassie was the intended victim). The Squiddie assassin \"Diana\nDiamond\" was definitely a poor shot (p. 252-253), since she fired\nmultiple times without killing anyone. She's a good candidate for\nChase's shooter. She admits to killing Brian Pickens, so she was in\nKingsport. I was hoping there would be a description of a facial scar\nthat could have come from a cleaver, but no such luck. Cthulhu recruits\nmay heal quickly." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But Gid saw the shooter and said it was a man. (203)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On a related note, apparently some time during the three-month gap\nbetween\nplays, he hired Gid's services at an even higher fee than for a past\nconsultation. Exactly what did he hire Gid to do? Deliver Cassie to him\nby\nbuying off Gid's affection for her?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Chase admitted to being hired to deliver Cassie, but not to loss of\naffection for her. He told her he loved her (p. 201). He just seemed to\nthink Reis was winning in that department, and was surprised by Cassie's\nkiss and her offer to let him spend the night." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, Gid professed his love for her in his note (216), and he may even have\nbeen sincere, in his fashion. What I meant was that, even at the surface\nlevel, Gid subordinated his regard for her to his ambitions. No man who\nreally loves a woman is complicit in delivering her for marriage to another\nman. Cassie realized that in her last conversation with him (228), when he\noffered excuses for not coming to pick her up in the islands.\n\nReis didn't hire Gid, at great cost, to chauffeur Cassie to the islands.\nAnyone could have done that. Besides, Gid said that he had been hired as a\ntemporary \"consultant\". (197) Gid had a reputation for getting things done\nthat others couldn't do. What did Reis really want from him?\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<734E04B0-4D95-42B7-939C-C805AE81535A@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2009-01-05T19:14:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Gideon", "in_reply_to": "<001501c96f69$1e6737e0$5dd24a0c@rclackey>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 5, 2009, at 1:09 PM, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nNo man who really loves a woman is complicit in delivering her for \nmarriage to another man." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I take exception.\n\nEven apart from polygynous cases, it strikes me that this could be a \nmagnificent theme for a story, and one that I'm sure has been done \n(indeed, it's done in Stephenson's Baroque Cycle, after a fashion) \nmany times. For example: the low-born lover sets up the object of his \nadoration so that she may marry into money or power, after which she \nmay poison her husband (or indeed, allow him to die a natural death if \nhe is much older than she) so that she may then marry the low-born \nlover and drag him into a higher social or economic sphere.\n\nSounds like it could be a fun read.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<210676.38466.qm@web58203.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-01-05T23:13:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) aeg: gideon", "in_reply_to": "<734E04B0-4D95-42B7-939C-C805AE81535A@io.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Roy stated the person who shot gideon was a man. A while ago I thought the male dancer in the play with the initials d d who was described as "not a man" could be diana diamond but I need to read it again with that in mind.\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<1bf4dd40901051552p5d9626bfk5926bc35ef9743a0@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2009-01-05T23:52:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) aeg: gideon", "in_reply_to": "<210676.38466.qm@web58203.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc Aramini wrote:\nRoy stated the person who shot gideon was a man. A while ago I thought the male dancer in the play with the initials d d who was described as "not a man" could be diana diamond but I > need to read it again with that in mind" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The gender of the Takanga Ha'i assassin is highly ambiguous. The\ndoctor says it was once human and female, but that his opinion hardly\nmatters. Chase may have been mistaken in thinking his attacker was a\nman.\n\nThe case for Donny Duke's connection with the assassin is good:\n1) \"In real life Donny Duke was small and swishy...\" p. 53. He is\nlater described as \"not a man.\"\n2) The assassin is a \"little bit of a thing.\" p. 256.\n2) Duke plays an assassin in \"Red Spot\" p. 63.\n3) The actor who played the King Kanoa character in \"Dating the\nVolcano God\" played a character who hired Duke as Cassie's assassin in\n\"Red Spot\".\n3) He likes thick green drinks (63,64). The assassin has thick green spit (252).\n4) The common initials equals common identity game: both are known by D.D.\n\nOn the other hand:\n1) \"Diana\" she has never tried to \"tread the boards\" as an actor.\n2) \"Diana\" says she didn't see Cassie's performance in which she\ndanced a hornpipe in a scanty costume (250). Cassie's partner in that\ndance was Donny Duke (131). One of her fellow cult members did see\nthat performance, and that could well be Duke.\n\nThe assassin could be lying, of course. The connecting clues are so\ngood that I hate to give up the theory on her say-so alone. Duke's\nface had red pimples, and the assassin's was very white, but this\ncould be the result of cultish transformations." } ] }, { "message_id": "<11596.67.142.130.13.1231204766.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2009-01-06T01:19:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) aeg: gideon", "in_reply_to": "<1bf4dd40901051552p5d9626bfk5926bc35ef9743a0@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Getting hit in the face with a meataxe is not a subtle thing.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Roy stated the person who shot gideon was a man. A while ago I thought\nthe male dancer in the play with the initials d d who was described as\n"not a man" could be diana diamond but I > need to read it\nagain with that in mind" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The gender of the Takanga Ha'i assassin is highly ambiguous. The\ndoctor says it was once human and female, but that his opinion hardly\nmatters. Chase may have been mistaken in thinking his attacker was a\nman.\n\nThe case for Donny Duke's connection with the assassin is good:\n1) \"In real life Donny Duke was small and swishy...\" p. 53. He is\nlater described as \"not a man.\"\n2) The assassin is a \"little bit of a thing.\" p. 256.\n2) Duke plays an assassin in \"Red Spot\" p. 63.\n3) The actor who played the King Kanoa character in \"Dating the\nVolcano God\" played a character who hired Duke as Cassie's assassin in\n\"Red Spot\".\n3) He likes thick green drinks (63,64). The assassin has thick green spit\n(252).\n4) The common initials equals common identity game: both are known by D.D.\n\nOn the other hand:\n1) \"Diana\" she has never tried to \"tread the boards\" as an actor.\n2) \"Diana\" says she didn't see Cassie's performance in which she\ndanced a hornpipe in a scanty costume (250). Cassie's partner in that\ndance was Donny Duke (131). One of her fellow cult members did see\nthat performance, and that could well be Duke.\n\nThe assassin could be lying, of course. The connecting clues are so\ngood that I hate to give up the theory on her say-so alone. Duke's\nface had red pimples, and the assassin's was very white, but this\ncould be the result of cultish transformations.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<93d4039f0901051904u477549ebv4f76c30c61e32fd4@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-06T03:04:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) aeg: gideon", "in_reply_to": "<1bf4dd40901051552p5d9626bfk5926bc35ef9743a0@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wouldn't even have to be a lie per se... \"I never saw you onstage\n(from the audience)\"." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/5/09, Dave Tallman wrote:\nMarc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Roy stated the person who shot gideon was a man. A while ago I thought\nthe male dancer in the play with the initials d d who was described as\n"not a man" could be diana diamond but I > need to read it again\nwith that in mind" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The gender of the Takanga Ha'i assassin is highly ambiguous. The\ndoctor says it was once human and female, but that his opinion hardly\nmatters. Chase may have been mistaken in thinking his attacker was a\nman.\n\nThe case for Donny Duke's connection with the assassin is good:\n1) \"In real life Donny Duke was small and swishy...\" p. 53. He is\nlater described as \"not a man.\"\n2) The assassin is a \"little bit of a thing.\" p. 256.\n2) Duke plays an assassin in \"Red Spot\" p. 63.\n3) The actor who played the King Kanoa character in \"Dating the\nVolcano God\" played a character who hired Duke as Cassie's assassin in\n\"Red Spot\".\n3) He likes thick green drinks (63,64). The assassin has thick green spit\n(252).\n4) The common initials equals common identity game: both are known by D.D.\n\nOn the other hand:\n1) \"Diana\" she has never tried to \"tread the boards\" as an actor.\n2) \"Diana\" says she didn't see Cassie's performance in which she\ndanced a hornpipe in a scanty costume (250). Cassie's partner in that\ndance was Donny Duke (131). One of her fellow cult members did see\nthat performance, and that could well be Duke.\n\nThe assassin could be lying, of course. The connecting clues are so\ngood that I hate to give up the theory on her say-so alone. Duke's\nface had red pimples, and the assassin's was very white, but this\ncould be the result of cultish transformations.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<49634AD9.4070109@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2009-01-06T12:13:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) aeg: gideon", "in_reply_to": "<93d4039f0901051904u477549ebv4f76c30c61e32fd4@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "John Watkins wrote:\nWouldn't even have to be a lie per se... \"I never saw you onstage\n(from the audience)\".\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The other statement is not exactly a lie either. \"An actress with no \nmore vocal control than that? Perhaps I may tread the boards myself \nsomeday. I couldn't be worse\" (p. 250). It doesn't really say that \n\"Diana\" never acted.\n\nThe phrase \"tread the boards\" is old-fashioned theatrical slang. Vince \nPalma uses it on p. 63, \"It was a privilege and an honor to tread the \nboards in your distinguished company.\" Perhaps Donny the assassin picked \nup the phrase from him. It's interesting that at the party Cassie ends \nup at a table with Vince, Margaret, Norma, and Donny, all of whom I have \nsuspected of having plot-related secrets:\n\nVince (Possessed by the Volcano God? Wearing invisible headdress?)\nNorma (Ex-wife of Reis? Plotted with ATF?)\nMargaret (Werewolf? Spy? Jewel thief? Seller of pictures to \ntabloids/internet?)\nDonny (Cthulhu cultist? Assassin? Shooter of Chase?)" } ] }, { "message_id": "<49634DF8.2090502@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2009-01-06T12:26:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) aeg: gideon", "in_reply_to": "<11596.67.142.130.13.1231204766.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "brunians wrote:\nGetting hit in the face with a meataxe is not a subtle thing.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's the biggest flaw I see with Donny as Chase's shooter. He has to \nappear in rehearsals for \"Dating the Volcano God\" very soon after the \nattack, and a big face wound would would be obvious. But he is an actor \nand would have access to advanced makeup technology. It's doubtful that \nhis red pimples show in his stage roles, for example. You might have a \npimply killer Seurat, but a pimply dancer in a musical would be strange.\n\nThe fact that Cassie doesn't recognize Donny as the assassin by face or \nvoice is more easily explained. The assassin may have been transformed \nby the Squid God -- maybe this was necessary for finally healing the axe \nwound, and removing the pimples was a side-effect. The assassin was \nprobably good at voices, since she critiqued Cassie's vocal control." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4963510B.40009@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2009-01-06T12:39:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Gideon", "in_reply_to": "<001501c96f69$1e6737e0$5dd24a0c@rclackey>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Roy C. Lackey wrote:\nReis didn't hire Gid, at great cost, to chauffeur Cassie to the islands.\nAnyone could have done that. Besides, Gid said that he had been hired as a\ntemporary \"consultant\". (197) Gid had a reputation for getting things done\nthat others couldn't do. What did Reis really want from him?\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One advantage of hiring Gid was that it divided his loyalties. He \ncouldn't deliver Reis to the FBI while taking his money (202). But there \nmust be something big going on in the background, too. Reis had a strong \nmotivation for joining Cassie on the island, but he let her stay there \nalone for a long time. Since he hopped from Europe to see her early on, \nit's hard to see what could be keeping him away. He could at least spend \nsome nights. I suspect it was something off-planet, maybe even in Woldercan.\n\nWhen Cassie called Chase he said it would be difficult to get to her (p. \n228). Was he also off-planet? Maybe, since there's something strange \nabout the phone service on the Takanga Islands (the time-shift we \nnoticed for the call to Sharon). Perhaps calls are routed through \nWoldercan, and that's how Cassie was able to get the call through to him." } ] }, { "message_id": "<7C2DFB25-B192-4AE7-891F-46EC518BB491@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2009-01-06T21:41:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Gideon", "in_reply_to": "<734E04B0-4D95-42B7-939C-C805AE81535A@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am suddenly very afraid.\n\nhttp://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/06/driving.obama/index.html?eref=rss_topstories\n\nIt's a big black car. \"And it will fix you a latte if you ask\"[*]\n\nNow, whose car does THAT sound like? That's right. The new \nPresident. Whom, one must not forget, a popular[**] song just called \n\"Magic.\"\n\nAdam\n\n[*] Not really, more's the pity...or WILL it?\n[**] In some circles, anyway." } ] }, { "message_id": "<004c01c970f6$ba789460$c6cf4a0c@rclackey>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2009-01-07T18:35:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) AEG: Gideon", "in_reply_to": "<4963510B.40009@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dave Tallman wrote:\nWhen Cassie called Chase he said it would be difficult to get to her (p.\n228). Was he also off-planet? Maybe, since there's something strange\nabout the phone service on the Takanga Islands (the time-shift we\nnoticed for the call to Sharon). Perhaps calls are routed through\nWoldercan, and that's how Cassie was able to get the call through to him." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If real-time phone service between planets light-years apart were even\npossible, the government would know and use it. Clearly it is not. Besides,\nwhat could either Reis or Chase have been doing on Woldercan during the week\nor so that Cassie was left to cool her heels in the islands that would have\nbenefited either man's immediate agenda?\n\n-Roy" } ] } ] }