{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5302", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5302, "subject": "Chrasmologic", "messages": 13, "voices": 7, "first": "2009-01-07T22:56:44+00:00", "last": "2009-01-11T19:18:24+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<4965332C.1080206@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2009-01-07T22:56:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You're right, Charismatic occurs in Lake. Usually it's \"Chrasmologic.\" Blame the proofreader." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\n\nMessage: 3\nDate: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:37:31 +0000\nFrom: \"Son of Witz\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) Urth Digest, Vol 53, Issue 7\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nMessage-ID: \nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"\n\nFair enough about the British,\nbut about the typo, I meant that at one point he mentions \"Charismatic Writings\"(p 20 in Lake, or p290 in Litany) and at every other point he mentions \"Chrasmalogical Writings\"\nI understand that the Chrasmatists did the writings.\nI'm sure you're on to something with Khreshma / Khreshmos. I wasn't able to find anything with the \"CH\" either.\n\n~witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2009-01-07T23:17:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "<4965332C.1080206@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Proofreader.\nNot a job for me. As a designer, I'm thrilled one of my colleagues is a UCSB Valedictorian. I give her everything, even my weirdo album projects.\nI considered for a brief second doing a proofreading of those pdfs. no fuckin way. Since it's OCR, the punctuation is the most problematic, and one of the harder things to proofread since we tend to read punctuation subliminally.\n\nWhile I was writing about laughs in Long Sun, I forgot to mention Oreb. loving that damn bird. Do you pronounce Chough as \"Chuff\" \"Choff\" \"Coff\" \"Cuff\"???? I live right near a huge park and we've got fat ravens and crows all over the neighborhood. My son and I have seen them catching rats and scarfing down on our neighbors' roofs. I love their obnoxious cackles. If I could have a talking raven, I would. Fuck a parrot. This is a Shakespeare allusion, no? talking ravens? I remember that from somewhere.\n\n~wtiz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: David Stockhoff [mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net]\nSent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 02:56 PM\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: (urth) Chrasmologic\n\nYou're right, Charismatic occurs in Lake. Usually it's \"Chrasmologic.\" Blame the proofreader.\n\n------------------------------\n\nMessage: 3\nDate: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:37:31 +0000\nFrom: \"Son of Witz\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) Urth Digest, Vol 53, Issue 7\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nMessage-ID: \nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"\n\nFair enough about the British,\nbut about the typo, I meant that at one point he mentions \"Charismatic Writings\"(p 20 in Lake, or p290 in Litany) and at every other point he mentions \"Chrasmalogical Writings\"\nI understand that the Chrasmatists did the writings.\nI'm sure you're on to something with Khreshma / Khreshmos. I wasn't able to find anything with the \"CH\" either.\n\n~witz\n\n\n\n---\navast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.\nVirus Database (VPS): 090107-0, 01/07/2009\nTested on: 1/7/2009 5:56:46 PM\navast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.\nhttp://www.avast.com\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-07T23:28:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\nHash: SHA512" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Son of Witz wrote:\nProofreader.\nNot a job for me. As a designer, I'm thrilled one of my colleagues is a UCSB Valedictorian. I give her everything, even my weirdo album projects.\nI considered for a brief second doing a proofreading of those pdfs. no fuckin way. Since it's OCR, the punctuation is the most problematic, and one of the harder things to proofread since we tend to read punctuation subliminally.\n\nWhile I was writing about laughs in Long Sun, I forgot to mention Oreb. loving that damn bird. Do you pronounce Chough as \"Chuff\" \"Choff\" \"Coff\" \"Cuff\"???? I live right near a huge park and we've got fat ravens and crows all over the neighborhood. My son and I have seen them catching rats and scarfing down on our neighbors' roofs. I love their obnoxious cackles. If I could have a talking raven, I would. Fuck a parrot. This is a Shakespeare allusion, no? talking ravens? I remember that from somewhere.\n\n~wtiz" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Personally, talking ravens make me think more of Edgar Alan Poe than\nShakespeare.\n\n- --\ngwern\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)\n\niEYEAREKAAYFAkllOrIACgkQvpDo5Pfl1oK8ngCeNfeQrxNEl8/A8zsK9uFo4ztX\niAcAnjTxHqMcC9sPaIV3pf6M4gX0Jz2a\n=Qz1W\n-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2009-01-07T23:40:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Gwern Branwen [mailto:gwern0 at gmail.com]\nSent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 03:28 PM\nTo: 'The Urth Mailing List'\nSubject: Re: (urth) Chrasmologic\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\nHash: SHA512\n\nOn Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Son of Witz wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Proofreader.\nNot a job for me. As a designer, I'm thrilled one of my colleagues is a UCSB Valedictorian. I give her everything, even my weirdo album projects.\nI considered for a brief second doing a proofreading of those pdfs. no fuckin way. Since it's OCR, the punctuation is the most problematic, and one of the harder things to proofread since we tend to read punctuation subliminally.\n\nWhile I was writing about laughs in Long Sun, I forgot to mention Oreb. loving that damn bird. Do you pronounce Chough as \"Chuff\" \"Choff\" \"Coff\" \"Cuff\"???? I live right near a huge park and we've got fat ravens and crows all over the neighborhood. My son and I have seen them catching rats and scarfing down on our neighbors' roofs. I love their obnoxious cackles. If I could have a talking raven, I would. Fuck a parrot. This is a Shakespeare allusion, no? talking ravens? I remember that from somewhere.\n\n~wtiz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Personally, talking ravens make me think more of Edgar Alan Poe than\nShakespeare.\n\n- --\ngwern" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Caw. Nevermore." } ] }, { "message_id": "<49654942.2080205@goosemoon.org>", "from": { "name": "Allan Anderson", "address": "rubel at goosemoon.org" }, "date": "2009-01-08T00:30:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Son of Witz wrote:\nProofreader.\nNot a job for me. As a designer, I'm thrilled one of my colleagues is a UCSB Valedictorian. I give her everything, even my weirdo album projects.\nI considered for a brief second doing a proofreading of those pdfs. no fuckin way. Since it's OCR, the punctuation is the most problematic, and one of the harder things to proofread since we tend to read punctuation subliminally.\n\nWhile I was writing about laughs in Long Sun, I forgot to mention Oreb. loving that damn bird. Do you pronounce Chough as \"Chuff\" \"Choff\" \"Coff\" \"Cuff\"???? I live right near a huge park and we've got fat ravens and crows all over the neighborhood. My son and I have seen them catching rats and scarfing down on our neighbors' roofs. I love their obnoxious cackles. If I could have a talking raven, I would. Fuck a parrot. This is a Shakespeare allusion, no? talking ravens? I remember that from somewhere.\n\n~wtiz\n\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Makes me think of the ravens in The Hobbit, and the few Dwarves and \nDalemen who remembered the ravenspeak.\n\nI guess it goes back to Odin's Hugin and Munin: \nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugin_and_Munin -- I fear for Thought, but \nmore for Memory.\n\nI saw some serious-looking big black birds at Alamo Square last month. \nMaybe these were some of your friends.\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<8A42DBCD-D05A-4BED-9BE2-9F0833EF5891@butcherbaker.org>", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2009-01-08T01:15:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "<49654942.2080205@goosemoon.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 7, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Allan Anderson wrote:\nSon of Witz wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Proofreader.\nNot a job for me. As a designer, I'm thrilled one of my colleagues \nis a UCSB Valedictorian. I give her everything, even my weirdo \nalbum projects.\nI considered for a brief second doing a proofreading of those pdfs. \nno fuckin way. Since it's OCR, the punctuation is the most \nproblematic, and one of the harder things to proofread since we \ntend to read punctuation subliminally.\n\nWhile I was writing about laughs in Long Sun, I forgot to mention \nOreb. loving that damn bird. Do you pronounce Chough as \"Chuff\" \n\"Choff\" \"Coff\" \"Cuff\"???? I live right near a huge park and we've \ngot fat ravens and crows all over the neighborhood. My son and I \nhave seen them catching rats and scarfing down on our neighbors' \nroofs. I love their obnoxious cackles. If I could have a talking \nraven, I would. Fuck a parrot. This is a Shakespeare allusion, no? \ntalking ravens? I remember that from somewhere.\n\n~wtiz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Makes me think of the ravens in The Hobbit, and the few Dwarves and \nDalemen who remembered the ravenspeak.\n\nI guess it goes back to Odin's Hugin and Munin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugin_and_Munin \n -- I fear for Thought, but more for Memory.\n\nI saw some serious-looking big black birds at Alamo Square last \nmonth. Maybe these were some of your friends." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for Hugin and Munin. I hadn't met them yet.\nOdin could handle thoughtlessness but not forgetfulness, I guess.\n\nI don't remember that in the Hobbit. Slowly making my way through it \nwith my son. I'll watch for that.\n\nAlamo Square? I wish that was the park I lived by. I like it over \nthere by the Painted Ladies. I'm next to John McClaren, the huge, \nforgotten ghost town of a park, no one there but joggers, dog walkers, \nand ghosts. But SF has seen the Raven population more or less \ndominate the crows which used to be more prevalent. They're as big as \ncats. I remember a story about 10 years ago where a woman walking her \nlittle dog to Ocean Beach had a murder of ravens attack her dog to \ndeath while crossing the dunes. If I remember right they actually \nlifted it off the ground. (wait, wikiP says it's \"an unkindness of \nRavens\". an \"unkindness\" ? sounds way too polite.)\n\n~witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44fb53d10901071740t4b862b48ka01986e11d40b8c7@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-08T01:40:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "<8A42DBCD-D05A-4BED-9BE2-9F0833EF5891@butcherbaker.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Son of Witz wrote:\nAlamo Square? I wish that was the park I lived by. I like it over there by\nthe Painted Ladies. I'm next to John McClaren, the huge, forgotten ghost\ntown of a park, no one there but joggers, dog walkers, and ghosts. But SF\nhas seen the Raven population more or less dominate the crows which used to\nbe more prevalent. They're as big as cats. I remember a story about 10\nyears ago where a woman walking her little dog to Ocean Beach had a murder\nof ravens attack her dog to death while crossing the dunes. If I remember\nright they actually lifted it off the ground. (wait, wikiP says it's \"an\nunkindness of Ravens\". an \"unkindness\" ? sounds way too polite.)\n\n~witz" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I believe it's an unkindness of ravens and a murder of crows. I don't\nknow if there's any special name for a group of choughs.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "<41347.198.1231378852.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>", "from": { "name": "Tim Walters", "address": "walters at doubtfulpalace.com" }, "date": "2009-01-08T01:40:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "<8A42DBCD-D05A-4BED-9BE2-9F0833EF5891@butcherbaker.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Alamo Square? I wish that was the park I lived by. I like it over\nthere by the Painted Ladies. I'm next to John McClaren, the huge,\nforgotten ghost town of a park" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You should come down to my local green/art spot, the amazing and\nlittle-known Cayuga Park/Playground, not far away from you:\n\nhttp://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/sfparks/ig/Cayuga-Park/\n\nBring the kid, he'll love it." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5CB5111F-57CA-49CF-91C7-989D6C13541A@butcherbaker.org>", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2009-01-08T01:59:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "<44fb53d10901071740t4b862b48ka01986e11d40b8c7@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 7, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Matthew Keeley wrote:\nOn Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Son of Witz ", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2009-01-08T02:30:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "<41347.198.1231378852.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Charlotte had her socer game s@ mcCalren last year..isn't that near the golf course where people are robbed and killed\n\nI love SF\n\n\n???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Tim Walters wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Tim Walters \nSubject: Re: (urth) Chrasmologic\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 5:40 PM\nAlamo Square? I wish that was the park I lived by. I like it over\nthere by the Painted Ladies. I'm next to John McClaren, the huge,\nforgotten ghost town of a park" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You should come down to my local green/art spot, the amazing and\nlittle-known Cayuga Park/Playground, not far away from you:\n\nhttp://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/sfparks/ig/Cayuga-Park/\n\nBring the kid, he'll love it." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4965720B.6010201@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2009-01-08T03:24:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "<46371.72810.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Bible (along with The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories and a good dictionary) is all you'll ever really need to understand Wolfe:\n\n\n Oreb\n\nMeaning: raven [from Hebrew \"black\"]\na prince of Midian \n, who, being \ndefeated by Gideon \n and put to \nstraits, was slain along with Zeeb \n (Judg. 7:20-25 \n)\nMany of the Midianites \n perished \nalong with him (Ps. 83:9 \n; Isa. 10:26 \n).\n\nBut Silk's Oreb is also clearly the Odin-like familiar of a witch, god, or prophet. Shakespeare referenced ravens in this sense:\n\n\"But the most frequent reference made by Shakespeare to this bird has regard to its supposed boding power. It is called the “fatal raven” [/Titus Andronicus — II, 3/]. A messenger of ill news is said to “sing a raven’s note” [/2nd Henry VI — III, 2/].\"\n\nChoughs are native to the Old World and very different from ravens, however. See Wiki for a photo." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\n\n\nMessage: 2\nDate: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:17:38 +0000\nFrom: \"Son of Witz\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) Chrasmologic" } ] }, { "message_id": "<0FC34EA3-CA58-490B-A95E-D8C2B46DEF6C@butcherbaker.org>", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2009-01-08T05:37:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chough Parks", "in_reply_to": "<41347.198.1231378852.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 7, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Tim Walters wrote:\nYou should come down to my local green/art spot, the amazing and\nlittle-known Cayuga Park/Playground, not far away from you:\n\nhttp://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/sfparks/ig/Cayuga-Park/\n\nBring the kid, he'll love it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh, that looks cool. dig the sculptures. definitely going to check \nthat out. thanks for pointing it out." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 7, 2009, at 6:30 PM, Stuart Hamm wrote:\nCharlotte had her socer game s@ mcCalren last year..isn't that near \nthe golf course where people are robbed and killed\n\nI love SF" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't know about the golf course (the sort of things I loathe) but \nyeah, it's a bit crazy over here. I'm about 8 blocks from where the \nBologna family was slaughtered in their car last year. It was up in \nthe neighborhood. Good neighborhood for fireworks though! all sorts \nof expensive illegal stuff shooting off on any day that could possibly \nwarrant fireworks." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 7, 2009, at 7:24 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nThe Bible (along with The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories \nand a good dictionary) is all you'll ever really need to understand \nWolfe:\n\n\nOreb\n\nBut Silk's Oreb is also clearly the Odin-like familiar of a witch, \ngod, or prophet. Shakespeare referenced ravens in this sense:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "yeah, those and Wikipedia. ;-)\nnot having read the whole thing, I sense you're right about familiar \nvs harbinger." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 7, 2009, at 7:01 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nI propose a \"hacking\" of choughs. Or a \"wheezing\"?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nice work there David." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Jan 7, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Allan Anderson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Makes me think of the ravens in The Hobbit, and the few Dwarves and \nDalemen who remembered the ravenspeak" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "oddly enough, that's the part I just finished reading my son moments \nago (nighty night) , but it turns out that it's a Thrush, not a raven \nthat they know the tongues of, mentioned after Bilbo's scorching near \nescape, a thrush is listening to his tale before Smaug comes and \nsmotes the mountain, sealing them in. As I read it, I made an aside, \nsaying \"that came up today\", and my son, the sharp little sprat said \n\"yeah, when Perseus talked with the robot owl.\" We'd been watching \nClash of the Titans earlier, his first time. when he said \"yeah,\" I \nwas wondering what the hell he was gonna say. the aptness surprised \nme. kids have memories like steel traps compared to my addled noodle.\n\nnighty night.\n~witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5B236825-7674-49D6-8681-02AAA069EC3E@butcherbaker.org>", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2009-01-11T19:18:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Chrasmologic", "in_reply_to": "<41347.198.1231378852.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hey Tim,\nthanks for the Cayuga Park tip-off. what a cool place. had a nice walk \nand a picnic and some playground time.\nreally cool sculptures. Lot's of love in that place.\ncheers,\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 7, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Tim Walters wrote:\n\nYou should come down to my local green/art spot, the amazing and\nlittle-known Cayuga Park/Playground, not far away from you:\n\nhttp://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/sfparks/ig/Cayuga-Park/\n\nBring the kid, he'll love it.\n\n-- \nTim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com" } ] } ] }