Subject: (urth) Chrasmologic

From: David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:56:44 +0000

You're right, Charismatic occurs in Lake. Usually it's "Chrasmologic." Blame the proofreader.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:37:31 +0000
From: "Son of Witz" <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Subject: Re: (urth) Urth Digest, Vol 53, Issue 7
To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
Message-ID: <W530981019487831231353451 at webmail25>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Fair enough about the British,
but about the typo, I meant that at one point he mentions "Charismatic Writings"(p 20 in Lake, or p290 in Litany) and at every other point he mentions "Chrasmalogical Writings"
I understand that the Chrasmatists did the writings.
I'm sure you're on to something with Khreshma / Khreshmos.  I wasn't able to find anything with the "CH" either.

~witz

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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:17:38 +0000

Proofreader.
Not a job for me.  As a designer, I'm thrilled one of my colleagues is a UCSB Valedictorian. I give her everything, even my weirdo album projects.
I considered for a brief second doing a proofreading of those pdfs. no fuckin way.  Since it's OCR, the punctuation is the most problematic, and one of the harder things to proofread since we tend to read punctuation subliminally.

While I was writing about laughs in Long Sun, I forgot to mention Oreb.  loving that damn bird. Do you pronounce Chough as "Chuff" "Choff" "Coff" "Cuff"????   I live right near a huge park and we've got fat ravens and crows all over the neighborhood.  My son and I have seen them catching rats and scarfing down on our neighbors' roofs.  I love their obnoxious cackles. If I could have a talking raven, I would. Fuck a parrot.  This is a Shakespeare allusion, no? talking ravens? I remember that from somewhere.

~wtiz

>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Stockhoff [mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 02:56 PM
>To: urth at lists.urth.net
>Subject: (urth) Chrasmologic
>
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From: Gwern Branwen <gwern0 at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:28:55 +0000

> While I was writing about laughs in Long Sun, I forgot to mention Oreb.  loving that damn bird. Do you pronounce Chough as "Chuff" "Choff" "Coff" "Cuff"????   I live right near a huge park and we'v…

Personally, talking ravens make me think more of Edgar Alan Poe than
Shakespeare.

- --
gwern

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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:40:12 +0000

>From: Gwern Branwen [mailto:gwern0 at gmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 03:28 PM
>To: 'The Urth Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: (urth) Chrasmologic
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA512
>

Caw. Nevermore.

---

From: Allan Anderson <rubel at goosemoon.org>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:30:58 +0000

> While I was writing about laughs in Long Sun, I forgot to mention Oreb.  loving that damn bird. Do you pronounce Chough as "Chuff" "Choff" "Coff" "Cuff"????   I live right near a huge park and we'v…
Makes me think of the ravens in The Hobbit, and the few Dwarves and 
Dalemen who remembered the ravenspeak.

I guess it goes back to Odin's Hugin and Munin: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugin_and_Munin -- I fear for Thought, but 
more for Memory.

I saw some serious-looking big black birds at Alamo Square last month. 
Maybe these were some of your friends.

---

From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:15:00 +0000

On Jan 7, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Allan Anderson wrote:

> Son of Witz wrote:
>> Proofreader.
>> Not a job for me.  As a designer, I'm thrilled one of my colleagues  
>> is a UCSB Valedictorian. I give her everything, even my weirdo  
>> album projects.
>> I considered for a brief second doing a proofreading of those pdfs.  
>> no fuckin way.  Since it's OCR, the punctuation is the most  
>> problematic, and one of the harder things to proofread since we  
>> tend to read punctuation subliminally.
>>
>> While I was writing about laughs in Long Sun, I forgot to mention  
>> Oreb.  loving that damn bird. Do you pronounce Chough as "Chuff"  
>> "Choff" "Coff" "Cuff"????   I live right near a huge park and we've  
>> got fat ravens and crows all over the neighborhood.  My son and I  
>> have seen them catching rats and scarfing down on our neighbors'  
>> roofs.  I love their obnoxious cackles. If I could have a talking  
>> raven, I would. Fuck a parrot.  This is a Shakespeare allusion, no?  
>> talking ravens? I remember that from somewhere.
>>
>> ~wtiz
>>
>>
> I guess it goes back to Odin's Hugin and Munin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugin_and_Munin 
>  -- I fear for Thought, but more for Memory.
>
> I saw some serious-looking big black birds at Alamo Square last  
> month. Maybe these were some of your friends.

Thanks for Hugin and Munin.  I hadn't met them yet.
Odin could handle thoughtlessness but not forgetfulness, I guess.

I don't remember that in the Hobbit.  Slowly making my way through it  
with my son. I'll watch for that.

Alamo Square?  I wish that was the park I lived by. I like it over  
there by the Painted Ladies.  I'm next to John McClaren, the huge,  
forgotten ghost town of a park, no one there but joggers, dog walkers,  
and ghosts.  But SF has seen the Raven population more or less  
dominate the crows which used to be more prevalent.  They're as big as  
cats. I remember a story about 10 years ago where a woman walking her  
little dog to Ocean Beach had a murder of ravens attack her dog to  
death while crossing the dunes.  If I remember right they actually  
lifted it off the ground.  (wait, wikiP says it's "an unkindness of  
Ravens".   an "unkindness" ?  sounds way too polite.)

~witz

---

From: Matthew Keeley <matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:40:37 +0000

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org> wrote:

> Alamo Square?  I wish that was the park I lived by. I like it over there by
> the Painted Ladies.  I'm next to John McClaren, the huge, forgotten ghost
> town of a park, no one there but joggers, dog walkers, and ghosts.  But SF
> has seen the Raven population more or less dominate the crows which used to
> be more prevalent.  They're as big as cats. I remember a story about 10
> years ago where a woman walking her little dog to Ocean Beach had a murder
> of ravens attack her dog to death while crossing the dunes.  If I remember
> right they actually lifted it off the ground.  (wait, wikiP says it's "an
> unkindness of Ravens".   an "unkindness" ?  sounds way too polite.)
>
> ~witz

I believe it's an unkindness of ravens and a murder of crows. I don't
know if there's any special name for a group of choughs.

-Matt

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From: Tim Walters <walters at doubtfulpalace.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:40:52 +0000

> forgotten ghost town of a park

You should come down to my local green/art spot, the amazing and
little-known Cayuga Park/Playground, not far away from you:

http://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/sfparks/ig/Cayuga-Park/

Bring the kid, he'll love it.

-- 
Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com

---

From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:59:27 +0000

On Jan 7, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Matthew Keeley wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org 
> > wrote:
>
>> there by

now you done made me look it up.
"A clattering of choughs"
"Clattering" is much better than "unkindness", IMHO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_collective_nouns_for_birds

~witz

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From: Stuart Hamm <hammstu at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 02:30:04 +0000

Charlotte had her socer game s@ mcCalren last year..isn't that near the golf course where people are robbed and killed

I love SF

???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624
???? Skype? stuart.hamm
myspace.com/stuhamm
? ??? stuarthamm.net

--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Tim Walters <walters at doubtfulpalace.com> wrote:

From: Tim Walters <walters at doubtfulpalace.com>
Subject: Re: (urth) Chrasmologic
To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 5:40 PM

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From: David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:24:59 +0000

The Bible (along with The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories and a good dictionary) is all you'll ever really need to understand Wolfe:

  Oreb

Meaning: raven [from Hebrew "black"]
a prince of Midian 
<http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/midian.html>, who, being 
defeated by Gideon 
<http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/gideon.html> and put to 
straits, was slain along with Zeeb 
<http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/zeeb.html> (Judg. 7:20-25 
<http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/judg7.html#20>)
Many of the Midianites 
<http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/midianite.html> perished 
along with him (Ps. 83:9 
<http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/psa83.html#9>; Isa. 10:26 
<http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/isa10.html#26>).

But Silk's Oreb is also clearly the Odin-like familiar of a witch, god, or prophet. Shakespeare referenced ravens in this sense:

"But the most frequent reference made by Shakespeare to this bird has regard to its supposed boding power. It is called the “fatal raven” [/Titus Andronicus — II, 3/]. A messenger of ill news is said to “sing a raven’s note” [/2nd Henry VI — III, 2/]."

Choughs are native to the Old World and very different from ravens, however. See Wiki for a photo.

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:17:38 +0000
From: "Son of Witz" <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Subject: Re: (urth) Chrasmologic
To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
Message-ID: <W698261462156361231370258 at webmail35>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

***************

~wtiz

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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:37:44 +0000

> Bring the kid, he'll love it.

Oh, that looks cool. dig the sculptures. definitely going to check  
that out. thanks for pointing it out.

On Jan 7, 2009, at 6:30 PM, Stuart Hamm wrote:

> Charlotte had her socer game s@ mcCalren last year..isn't that near  
> the golf course where people are robbed and killed
>
> I love SF

I don't know about the golf course (the sort of things I loathe) but  
yeah, it's a bit crazy over here. I'm about 8 blocks from where the  
Bologna family was slaughtered in their car last year. It was up in  
the neighborhood.  Good neighborhood for fireworks though! all sorts  
of expensive illegal stuff shooting off on any day that could possibly  
warrant fireworks.

On Jan 7, 2009, at 7:24 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:

> The Bible (along with The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories  
> and a good dictionary) is all you'll ever really need to understand  
> Wolfe:
>
>
> Oreb
>
> But Silk's Oreb is also clearly the Odin-like familiar of a witch,  
> god, or prophet. Shakespeare referenced ravens in this sense:

yeah, those and Wikipedia. ;-)
not having read the whole thing, I sense you're right about familiar  
vs harbinger.

On Jan 7, 2009, at 7:01 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:

> I propose a "hacking" of choughs. Or a "wheezing"?

Nice work there David.

On Jan 7, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Allan Anderson wrote:
> Dalemen who remembered the ravenspeak

oddly enough, that's the part I just finished reading my son moments  
ago (nighty night) , but it turns out that it's a Thrush, not a raven  
that they know the tongues of, mentioned after Bilbo's scorching near  
escape, a thrush is listening to his tale before Smaug comes and  
smotes the mountain, sealing them in.   As I read it, I made an aside,  
saying "that came up today", and my son, the sharp little sprat said  
"yeah, when Perseus talked with the robot owl."  We'd been watching  
Clash of the Titans earlier, his first time.  when he said "yeah," I  
was wondering what the hell he was gonna say. the aptness surprised  
me.  kids have memories like steel traps compared to my addled noodle.

nighty night.
~witz

---

From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:18:24 +0000

Hey Tim,
thanks for the Cayuga Park tip-off. what a cool place. had a nice walk  
and a picnic and some playground time.
really cool sculptures. Lot's of love in that place.
cheers,
~witz