{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5308", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5308, "subject": "Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "messages": 31, "voices": 11, "first": "2009-01-13T13:10:39+00:00", "last": "2009-01-14T20:05:09+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<05B97267F894403594AE3659BAEA566B@defaultyb2su9s>", "from": { "name": "Ken Rutsky", "address": "rkenneth at nycap.rr.com" }, "date": "2009-01-13T13:10:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just finished book 3 of the Long Sun. I am dazzled by this work, more than\nI was with the New Sun books.\n\n \n\nI suppose some of it has to do with learning how to \"read\" Wolfe, which I\nbelieve I'm just starting to do. Now, I'm not a dullard; my degree is in\nEnglish and my favorite writers include Borges, late-period Samuel Delany,\nNabokov.a lot of \"lit snob\" stuff. However, I've little background in\nstudying the Bible, which I'm realizing is key to Wolfe's work, and is\nsomething I'm rectifying on my own. In addition, I am getting better at\nspotting massive revelations about the book's characters and the Whorl\nitself in casual, almost throwaway asides and oblique references; in\nparticular, I was blown away by learning who Blood's father is in the last\npages of this volume. Having had these insights into his style, I'll have\nto go back and re-read New Sun in the future.\n\n \n\nOn to volume four! I can't wait to comb through the list archives to read\npast discussions on this series. I've been very impressed with what I've\nread here so far.\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "mfstraight at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-13T17:38:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<05B97267F894403594AE3659BAEA566B@defaultyb2su9s>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For me, one of the most important keys to enjoying Wolfe's work is to\nlet him take you where he wants to go. He's constantly doing this\nbait-and-switch, leading you up to some exciting event, making you\nwant to see it, then taking you aside to listen instead to some\nconversation that is (at least at first glance) completely unrelated.\nYou chafe, feeling like you're missing the real story. But the key is\n- you are not. That thing you're missing is a distraction, a\nmagician's trick. This conversation here is the real story. Don't\nmiss it.\n\n- Rostrum" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Ken Rutsky wrote:\nJust finished book 3 of the Long Sun. I am dazzled by this work, more than\nI was with the New Sun books.\n\n\n\nI suppose some of it has to do with learning how to \"read\" Wolfe, which I\nbelieve I'm just starting to do. Now, I'm not a dullard; my degree is in\nEnglish and my favorite writers include Borges, late-period Samuel Delany,\nNabokov a lot of \"lit snob\" stuff. However, I've little background in\nstudying the Bible, which I'm realizing is key to Wolfe's work, and is\nsomething I'm rectifying on my own. In addition, I am getting better at\nspotting massive revelations about the book's characters and the Whorl\nitself in casual, almost throwaway asides and oblique references; in\nparticular, I was blown away by learning who Blood's father is in the last\npages of this volume. Having had these insights into his style, I'll have\nto go back and re-read New Sun in the future.\n\n\n\nOn to volume four! I can't wait to comb through the list archives to read\npast discussions on this series. I've been very impressed with what I've\nread here so far.\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<51CF2366061545799A726F1A4D1ED247@defaultyb2su9s>", "from": { "name": "Ken Rutsky", "address": "rkenneth at nycap.rr.com" }, "date": "2009-01-13T22:56:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's a great point. I wonder if Loris saying \"Is this germane?\" during\nthe last scene of Calde is a humorous way of hinting at this mode of\nwriting/reading.\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: urth-bounces at lists.urth.net [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net] On\nBehalf Of Michael Straight\nSent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:39 PM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List\nSubject: Re: (urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe\n\nFor me, one of the most important keys to enjoying Wolfe's work is to\nlet him take you where he wants to go. He's constantly doing this\nbait-and-switch, leading you up to some exciting event, making you\nwant to see it, then taking you aside to listen instead to some\nconversation that is (at least at first glance) completely unrelated.\nYou chafe, feeling like you're missing the real story. But the key is\n- you are not. That thing you're missing is a distraction, a\nmagician's trick. This conversation here is the real story. Don't\nmiss it.\n\n- Rostrum" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Ken Rutsky wrote:\nJust finished book 3 of the Long Sun. I am dazzled by this work, more\nthan\nI was with the New Sun books.\n\n\n\nI suppose some of it has to do with learning how to \"read\" Wolfe, which I\nbelieve I'm just starting to do. Now, I'm not a dullard; my degree is in\nEnglish and my favorite writers include Borges, late-period Samuel Delany,\nNabokov.a lot of \"lit snob\" stuff. However, I've little background in\nstudying the Bible, which I'm realizing is key to Wolfe's work, and is\nsomething I'm rectifying on my own. In addition, I am getting better at\nspotting massive revelations about the book's characters and the Whorl\nitself in casual, almost throwaway asides and oblique references; in\nparticular, I was blown away by learning who Blood's father is in the last\npages of this volume. Having had these insights into his style, I'll have\nto go back and re-read New Sun in the future.\n\n\n\nOn to volume four! I can't wait to comb through the list archives to read\npast discussions on this series. I've been very impressed with what I've\nread here so far.\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2009-01-14T17:04:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<51CF2366061545799A726F1A4D1ED247@defaultyb2su9s>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just finished Calde of the Long Sun.\nwhat a read!\nI haven't searched the list yet, in order to avoid spoilers,but I can't find anything to define \"Calde\".\nI'm not clear if Calde is a higher office than Prolocutor.\nObviously it's the theocratic civil ruler, but I'm not clear on the hierarchy.\nIs Calde like a Bishop/Mayor or a Pope/Emperor? the book doesn't exactly make it clear. The fact that it's specific to Viron makes me think it's like a Bishop/Mayor role, and that the Prolocutor is the equivalent to a Pope for the whole whorl. \nany help?\n\nthanks\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Ken Rutsky [mailto:rkenneth at nycap.rr.com]\nSent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 02:56 PM\nTo: ''The Urth Mailing List''\nSubject: Re: (urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe\n\nThat's a great point. I wonder if Loris saying \"Is this germane?\" during\nthe last scene of Calde is a humorous way of hinting at this mode of\nwriting/reading.\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: urth-bounces at lists.urth.net [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net] On\nBehalf Of Michael Straight\nSent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:39 PM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List\nSubject: Re: (urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe\n\nFor me, one of the most important keys to enjoying Wolfe's work is to\nlet him take you where he wants to go. He's constantly doing this\nbait-and-switch, leading you up to some exciting event, making you\nwant to see it, then taking you aside to listen instead to some\nconversation that is (at least at first glance) completely unrelated.\nYou chafe, feeling like you're missing the real story. But the key is\n- you are not. That thing you're missing is a distraction, a\nmagician's trick. This conversation here is the real story. Don't\nmiss it.\n\n- Rostrum\n\nOn Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Ken Rutsky wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Just finished book 3 of the Long Sun. I am dazzled by this work, more\nthan\nI was with the New Sun books.\n\n\n\nI suppose some of it has to do with learning how to \"read\" Wolfe, which I\nbelieve I'm just starting to do. Now, I'm not a dullard; my degree is in\nEnglish and my favorite writers include Borges, late-period Samuel Delany,\nNabokov.a lot of \"lit snob\" stuff. However, I've little background in\nstudying the Bible, which I'm realizing is key to Wolfe's work, and is\nsomething I'm rectifying on my own. In addition, I am getting better at\nspotting massive revelations about the book's characters and the Whorl\nitself in casual, almost throwaway asides and oblique references; in\nparticular, I was blown away by learning who Blood's father is in the last\npages of this volume. Having had these insights into his style, I'll have\nto go back and re-read New Sun in the future.\n\n\n\nOn to volume four! I can't wait to comb through the list archives to read\npast discussions on this series. I've been very impressed with what I've\nread here so far.\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370901140918u11755ee6gec1469b0aabcac4a@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T17:18:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"Alcalde\" is Spanish for \"mayor.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Son of Witz wrote:\nJust finished Calde of the Long Sun.\nwhat a read!\nI haven't searched the list yet, in order to avoid spoilers,but I can't find anything to define \"Calde\".\nI'm not clear if Calde is a higher office than Prolocutor.\nObviously it's the theocratic civil ruler, but I'm not clear on the hierarchy.\nIs Calde like a Bishop/Mayor or a Pope/Emperor? the book doesn't exactly make it clear. The fact that it's specific to Viron makes me think it's like a Bishop/Mayor role, and that the Prolocutor is the equivalent to a Pope for the whole whorl.\nany help?\n\nthanks\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Ken Rutsky [mailto:rkenneth at nycap.rr.com]\nSent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 02:56 PM\nTo: ''The Urth Mailing List''\nSubject: Re: (urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe\n\nThat's a great point. I wonder if Loris saying \"Is this germane?\" during\nthe last scene of Calde is a humorous way of hinting at this mode of\nwriting/reading.\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: urth-bounces at lists.urth.net [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net] On\nBehalf Of Michael Straight\nSent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:39 PM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List\nSubject: Re: (urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe\n\nFor me, one of the most important keys to enjoying Wolfe's work is to\nlet him take you where he wants to go. He's constantly doing this\nbait-and-switch, leading you up to some exciting event, making you\nwant to see it, then taking you aside to listen instead to some\nconversation that is (at least at first glance) completely unrelated.\nYou chafe, feeling like you're missing the real story. But the key is\n- you are not. That thing you're missing is a distraction, a\nmagician's trick. This conversation here is the real story. Don't\nmiss it.\n\n- Rostrum\n\nOn Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Ken Rutsky wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Just finished book 3 of the Long Sun. I am dazzled by this work, more\nthan\nI was with the New Sun books.\n\n\n\nI suppose some of it has to do with learning how to \"read\" Wolfe, which I\nbelieve I'm just starting to do. Now, I'm not a dullard; my degree is in\nEnglish and my favorite writers include Borges, late-period Samuel Delany,\nNabokov.a lot of \"lit snob\" stuff. However, I've little background in\nstudying the Bible, which I'm realizing is key to Wolfe's work, and is\nsomething I'm rectifying on my own. In addition, I am getting better at\nspotting massive revelations about the book's characters and the Whorl\nitself in casual, almost throwaway asides and oblique references; in\nparticular, I was blown away by learning who Blood's father is in the last\npages of this volume. Having had these insights into his style, I'll have\nto go back and re-read New Sun in the future.\n\n\n\nOn to volume four! I can't wait to comb through the list archives to read\npast discussions on this series. I've been very impressed with what I've\nread here so far.\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90901140924r49220a74g4bdc9daeb8df6f48@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T17:24:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A \"calde\" is a mayor if etymology and the things we see Caldes do have\nanything to say about it. The word, like \"ayuntamiento\" and \"juzgado\" has\nSpanish roots in \"alcalde\" which means \"mayor\", which itself comes from the\nArabic \"al-quadi\", \"the judge\". There is no theocratic component to it,\nwhich is fitting since neither Silk's predecessor nor successor (a teeny\nspoiler from RttW) are religious authorities.\nKeep in mind that Viron is one city among many, so terms like Pope and\nEmperor are right out.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Son of Witz wrote:\nJust finished Calde of the Long Sun.\nwhat a read!\nI haven't searched the list yet, in order to avoid spoilers,but I can't\nfind anything to define \"Calde\".\nI'm not clear if Calde is a higher office than Prolocutor.\nObviously it's the theocratic civil ruler, but I'm not clear on the\nhierarchy.\nIs Calde like a Bishop/Mayor or a Pope/Emperor? the book doesn't exactly\nmake it clear. The fact that it's specific to Viron makes me think it's\nlike a Bishop/Mayor role, and that the Prolocutor is the equivalent to a\nPope for the whole whorl.\nany help?\n\nthanks\n~witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90901140925j751e46d9n55fa89ab3907e0e4@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T17:25:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370901140918u11755ee6gec1469b0aabcac4a@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Heh, beaten to the punch!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\n\"Alcalde\" is Spanish for \"mayor.\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2009-01-14T17:38:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901140925j751e46d9n55fa89ab3907e0e4@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "A \"calde\" is a mayor if etymology and the things we see Caldes do have\nanything to say about it. The word, like \"ayuntamiento\" and \"juzgado\" has\nSpanish roots in \"alcalde\" which means \"mayor\", which itself comes from the\nArabic \"al-quadi\", \"the judge\". There is no theocratic component to it,\nwhich is fitting since neither Silk's predecessor nor successor (a teeny\nspoiler from RttW) are religious authorities.\nKeep in mind that Viron is one city among many, so terms like Pope and\nEmperor are right out.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks.\noops. I'd forgotten that I had considered Alcalde.\nthe other spanish words were easier to find.\nYou don't suppose there is a theocratic component when it's sanctioned by the charter? I guess it need not be.\nand yeah, I had that same feeling that it could not be emperor.\n~witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "<93d4039f0901140942v4f4579deq792ba3da4e480ae0@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T17:42:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I feel like Wolfe is making a somewhat common point with regard to\nAmerican constitutionalism with the quasi-religious significance he\ngives to the Charter." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/14/09, Son of Witz wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "A \"calde\" is a mayor if etymology and the things we see Caldes do have\nanything to say about it. The word, like \"ayuntamiento\" and \"juzgado\" has\nSpanish roots in \"alcalde\" which means \"mayor\", which itself comes from the\nArabic \"al-quadi\", \"the judge\". There is no theocratic component to it,\nwhich is fitting since neither Silk's predecessor nor successor (a teeny\nspoiler from RttW) are religious authorities.\nKeep in mind that Viron is one city among many, so terms like Pope and\nEmperor are right out.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Thanks.\noops. I'd forgotten that I had considered Alcalde.\nthe other spanish words were easier to find.\nYou don't suppose there is a theocratic component when it's sanctioned by the charter? I guess it need not be.\nand yeah, I had that same feeling that it could not be emperor.\n~witz\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<923213.7104.qm@web37601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T17:42:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You don't suppose there is a theocratic component when it's sanctioned by the charter? I guess it need not be.\nand yeah, I had that same feeling that it could not be emperor." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't remember there being any official theocratic overtone to the position. But of course \"Silk for Calde\" was scrawled on the wall because rumor of his enlightenment got around (at least according to Horn).\n\nAnd some other cities in Short Sun (no spoilers) have \"Calde\" as well (and also \"Duko\"), so mayor is the closest analogue.\n\nCraig\n\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<371564.77088.qm@web37607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T17:46:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<93d4039f0901140942v4f4579deq792ba3da4e480ae0@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I feel like Wolfe is making a somewhat common point with regard to\nAmerican constitutionalism with the quasi-religious significance he\ngives to the Charter." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That could well be. But it gets more complicated since it's the people of the city, and not Silk, who give it that significance. And, of course, by the end, the Charter starts to seem incredibly \"local\" once the Whorl is seen for what it is.\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90901141005r403a702ay7cd6c4b03ec9aaeb@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:05:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<923213.7104.qm@web37601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This reminds me of an interesting point that was addressed on the list\nbriefly, but inconclusively if I remember correctly. That being, who really\ngot the ball rolling on \"Silk for Calde\"? As far as plausible motives, the\nones considered were unknown confederates of Tussah for somewhat obvious\nreasons, and Quetzal for less obvious ones (he somehow had to have\nforeknowledge that Silk would have the best shot at starting the\nevacuation). The other possibilities are the Neighbors, who also\ninfiltrated the Whorl as per RttW (and have reason to support the evacuation\ntoo), and common folk who all of a sudden became very impressed with Silk\n(but why?!)\nIs there any conclusive evidence out there?\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Craig Brewer wrote:\nBut of course \"Silk for Calde\" was scrawled on the wall because rumor of\nhis enlightenment got around (at least according to Horn)." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370901141008y2fb9e0f4s7c4def4d71b7b231@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:08:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141005r403a702ay7cd6c4b03ec9aaeb@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Crane." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Paul B wrote:\nThis reminds me of an interesting point that was addressed on the list\nbriefly, but inconclusively if I remember correctly. That being, who really\ngot the ball rolling on \"Silk for Calde\"? As far as plausible motives, the\nones considered were unknown confederates of Tussah for somewhat obvious\nreasons, and Quetzal for less obvious ones (he somehow had to have\nforeknowledge that Silk would have the best shot at starting the\nevacuation). The other possibilities are the Neighbors, who also\ninfiltrated the Whorl as per RttW (and have reason to support the evacuation\ntoo), and common folk who all of a sudden became very impressed with Silk\n(but why?!)\nIs there any conclusive evidence out there?\n\nPaul\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Craig Brewer wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But of course \"Silk for Calde\" was scrawled on the wall because rumor of\nhis enlightenment got around (at least according to Horn)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<93d4039f0901141010t21f9e719k35bb0c770243ad91@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:10:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141005r403a702ay7cd6c4b03ec9aaeb@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I thought Pas was behind it..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:\nThis reminds me of an interesting point that was addressed on the list\nbriefly, but inconclusively if I remember correctly. That being, who really\ngot the ball rolling on \"Silk for Calde\"? As far as plausible motives, the\nones considered were unknown confederates of Tussah for somewhat obvious\nreasons, and Quetzal for less obvious ones (he somehow had to have\nforeknowledge that Silk would have the best shot at starting the\nevacuation). The other possibilities are the Neighbors, who also\ninfiltrated the Whorl as per RttW (and have reason to support the evacuation\ntoo), and common folk who all of a sudden became very impressed with Silk\n(but why?!)\nIs there any conclusive evidence out there?\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Craig Brewer wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But of course \"Silk for Calde\" was scrawled on the wall because rumor of\nhis enlightenment got around (at least according to Horn)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90901141011k2a350814y52c74e53c8b62bc8@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:11:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370901141008y2fb9e0f4s7c4def4d71b7b231@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If I remember correctly, wasn't the slogan chalked on a rather high wall? I\nsuppose he could have gotten a ladder, and it's certainly true that he has a\nmotive. But does he, or do his superiors, actually admit to it?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nCrane.\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Paul B wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "This reminds me of an interesting point that was addressed on the list\nbriefly, but inconclusively if I remember correctly. That being, who\nreally\ngot the ball rolling on \"Silk for Calde\"? As far as plausible motives,\nthe\nones considered were unknown confederates of Tussah for somewhat obvious\nreasons, and Quetzal for less obvious ones (he somehow had to have\nforeknowledge that Silk would have the best shot at starting the\nevacuation). The other possibilities are the Neighbors, who also\ninfiltrated the Whorl as per RttW (and have reason to support the\nevacuation\ntoo), and common folk who all of a sudden became very impressed with Silk\n(but why?!)\nIs there any conclusive evidence out there?\n\nPaul\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Craig Brewer \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "But of course \"Silk for Calde\" was scrawled on the wall because rumor of\nhis enlightenment got around (at least according to Horn)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370901141016i1d9b1dao15e98e0a73a7b528@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:16:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141011k2a350814y52c74e53c8b62bc8@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm going from memory but - doesn't he imply in his report to his superiors\nthat he has sparked the \"Silk for Calde\" movement?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Paul B wrote:\nIf I remember correctly, wasn't the slogan chalked on a rather high wall? I\nsuppose he could have gotten a ladder, and it's certainly true that he has a\nmotive. But does he, or do his superiors, actually admit to it?\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Crane.\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Paul B wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "This reminds me of an interesting point that was addressed on the list\nbriefly, but inconclusively if I remember correctly. That being, who\nreally\ngot the ball rolling on \"Silk for Calde\"? As far as plausible motives,\nthe\nones considered were unknown confederates of Tussah for somewhat obvious\nreasons, and Quetzal for less obvious ones (he somehow had to have\nforeknowledge that Silk would have the best shot at starting the\nevacuation). The other possibilities are the Neighbors, who also\ninfiltrated the Whorl as per RttW (and have reason to support the\nevacuation\ntoo), and common folk who all of a sudden became very impressed with\nSilk\n(but why?!)\nIs there any conclusive evidence out there?\n\nPaul\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Craig Brewer \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "But of course \"Silk for Calde\" was scrawled on the wall because rumor\nof\nhis enlightenment got around (at least according to Horn)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<598627.38574.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:24:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901140924r49220a74g4bdc9daeb8df6f48@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "?A buddy of mine in Madrid has a good pun the Spanish use with/for ayuntamiento...\n\nI'll get the correct version and pass it on\n\n~S~\n\n\n???? Mobile — (415) 786-3624\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:\n\nFrom: Paul B \nSubject: Re: (urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 9:24 AM\n\n\nA \"calde\" is a mayor if etymology and the things we see Caldes do have anything to say about it. The word, like \"ayuntamiento\" and \"juzgado\" has Spanish roots in \"alcalde\" which means \"mayor\", which itself comes from the Arabic \"al-quadi\", \"the judge\". There is no theocratic component to it, which is fitting since neither Silk's predecessor nor successor (a teeny spoiler from RttW) are religious authorities.\nKeep in mind that Viron is one city among many, so terms like Pope and Emperor are right out.\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Son of Witz wrote:\n\nJust finished Calde of the Long Sun.\nwhat a read!\nI haven't searched the list yet, in order to avoid spoilers,but I can't find anything to define \"Calde\".\nI'm not clear if Calde is a higher office than Prolocutor.\nObviously it's the theocratic civil ruler, but I'm not clear on the hierarchy.\nIs Calde like a Bishop/Mayor or a Pope/Emperor? “the book doesn't exactly make it clear. ?The fact that it's specific to Viron makes me think it's like a Bishop/Mayor role, and that the Prolocutor is the equivalent to a Pope for the whole whorl.\nany help”\n\nthanks\n~witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90901141026o37e5b854s96335fececad626d@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:26:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370901141016i1d9b1dao15e98e0a73a7b528@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I found what he was writing in \"Nightside\", p 252, which suggests he\nactually didn't.\n\n\"There is a movement to restore the Charter ... Thus far it seems confined\nto the lower orders. The watchword 'Silk for calde' is written on walls,\nalthough not\" (it was a guess , but Crane felt confident of his ground) \"on\nthe Palatine. I am in contact with him and am gaining his trust. I have\nseen to it that he has an azoth. This can be reported if it proves\nnecessary to destroy him.\"\n\nIf nothing else, Crane isn't aware of all the instances of \"Silk for Calde\"\nand thinks they (and the movement itself) have origins with the commoners.\nAlso, he doesn't treat the movement as a planned diversion, but simply\nstates its existence.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nI'm going from memory but - doesn't he imply in his report to his superiors\nthat he has sparked the \"Silk for Calde\" movement?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370901141027x10be8f03i3512845c208e3848@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:27:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141026o37e5b854s96335fececad626d@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You're right." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Paul B wrote:\nI found what he was writing in \"Nightside\", p 252, which suggests he\nactually didn't.\n\n\"There is a movement to restore the Charter ... Thus far it seems confined\nto the lower orders. The watchword 'Silk for calde' is written on walls,\nalthough not\" (it was a guess , but Crane felt confident of his ground) \"on\nthe Palatine. I am in contact with him and am gaining his trust. I have\nseen to it that he has an azoth. This can be reported if it proves\nnecessary to destroy him.\"\n\nIf nothing else, Crane isn't aware of all the instances of \"Silk for Calde\"\nand thinks they (and the movement itself) have origins with the commoners.\nAlso, he doesn't treat the movement as a planned diversion, but simply\nstates its existence.\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm going from memory but - doesn't he imply in his report to his\nsuperiors\nthat he has sparked the \"Silk for Calde\" movement?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<93d4039f0901141032i4dc22155r3e4a5779e36826f3@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:32:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<1f7617370901141027x10be8f03i3512845c208e3848@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Brings us back to Pas." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/14/09, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nYou're right.\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Paul B wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I found what he was writing in \"Nightside\", p 252, which suggests he\nactually didn't.\n\n\"There is a movement to restore the Charter ... Thus far it seems confined\nto the lower orders. The watchword 'Silk for calde' is written on walls,\nalthough not\" (it was a guess , but Crane felt confident of his ground) \"on\nthe Palatine. I am in contact with him and am gaining his trust. I have\nseen to it that he has an azoth. This can be reported if it proves\nnecessary to destroy him.\"\n\nIf nothing else, Crane isn't aware of all the instances of \"Silk for Calde\"\nand thinks they (and the movement itself) have origins with the commoners.\nAlso, he doesn't treat the movement as a planned diversion, but simply\nstates its existence.\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I'm going from memory but - doesn't he imply in his report to his\nsuperiors\nthat he has sparked the \"Silk for Calde\" movement?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90901141052x7eb8f0c6g59d41cc0d0b27e77@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:52:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<93d4039f0901141032i4dc22155r3e4a5779e36826f3@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sure, Pas has a motive, but there are problems.\nFirstly, Pas is likely dead during the early part of the tetralogy as he\nmakes his comeback in Epiphany. Secondly, he also has a foreknowledge\nproblem regarding Silk being the best for the evacuation. Finally, I am\nspecifically interested in actual evidence as we have seen that there are\nlots of people with motives to get Silk installed.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:32 PM, John Watkins wrote:\nBrings us back to Pas." } ] }, { "message_id": "<917609.43051.qm@web37602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:54:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141052x7eb8f0c6g59d41cc0d0b27e77@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think it's Maytera Rose. She just wanted him out of the palaestra." } ] }, { "message_id": "<93d4039f0901141059r1a25cf57m2f1db60c1f53435c@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T18:59:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141052x7eb8f0c6g59d41cc0d0b27e77@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think either of those is a problem. The Plan of Pas is in\nmotion even during the period that Pas is \"dead,\" and depending on\nwhat we accept about Silk's parentage, that foreknowledge problem gets\ncleared up right away." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:\nSure, Pas has a motive, but there are problems.\nFirstly, Pas is likely dead during the early part of the tetralogy as he\nmakes his comeback in Epiphany. Secondly, he also has a foreknowledge\nproblem regarding Silk being the best for the evacuation. Finally, I am\nspecifically interested in actual evidence as we have seen that there are\nlots of people with motives to get Silk installed.\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:32 PM, John Watkins \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Brings us back to Pas." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90901141107y749f9748w9c5c13fd085f6348@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T19:07:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<93d4039f0901141059r1a25cf57m2f1db60c1f53435c@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I suppose Kypris could have had it written in Pas' absence, sure.\nWhat do you mean regarding his parentage? He was a special embryo bought by\nTussah for his own purpose. Pas may know about his leadership abilities,\nbut that alone doesn't seem to get him to evacuating the cargo.\nEven if I grant you the above two, there's the original problem of\nconclusive evidence. Assuming Pas has the proper motive and agency, he is\nstill one among many candidates.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:59 PM, John Watkins wrote:\nI don't think either of those is a problem. The Plan of Pas is in\nmotion even during the period that Pas is \"dead,\" and depending on\nwhat we accept about Silk's parentage, that foreknowledge problem gets\ncleared up right away.\n\nOn 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Sure, Pas has a motive, but there are problems.\nFirstly, Pas is likely dead during the early part of the tetralogy as he\nmakes his comeback in Epiphany. Secondly, he also has a foreknowledge\nproblem regarding Silk being the best for the evacuation. Finally, I am\nspecifically interested in actual evidence as we have seen that there are\nlots of people with motives to get Silk installed.\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:32 PM, John Watkins \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Brings us back to Pas." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1f7617370901141110r2c2614fdi778a708f4a4384df@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T19:10:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141107y749f9748w9c5c13fd085f6348@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Paul B wrote:\nI suppose Kypris could have had it written in Pas' absence, sure.\nWhat do you mean regarding his parentage? He was a special embryo bought by\nTussah for his own purpose." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There is a strong belief among many on this list that the embryo that grows\nup to be Silk was intended by Pas to be his own body when the _Whorl_\nreached its destination." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, writer, trainer, bon vivant\n-----\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer\nhttp://www.danehyoakes.com\n\nI once absend-mindedly ordered Three Mile Island dressing in a\nrestaurant and, with great presence of mind, they brought Thousand\nIsland Dressing and a bottle of chili sauce. -- T. Pratchett" } ] }, { "message_id": "<93d4039f0901141112iefea275ubd9050a179bb2d94@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T19:12:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141107y749f9748w9c5c13fd085f6348@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Kypris or, potentially, a flyer.\n\nIf Silk is a special embryo with heightened leadership abilities,\netc., then it's entirely possible that his purpose from the beginning\nwas to lead an exodus." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:\nI suppose Kypris could have had it written in Pas' absence, sure.\nWhat do you mean regarding his parentage? He was a special embryo bought by\nTussah for his own purpose. Pas may know about his leadership abilities,\nbut that alone doesn't seem to get him to evacuating the cargo.\nEven if I grant you the above two, there's the original problem of\nconclusive evidence. Assuming Pas has the proper motive and agency, he is\nstill one among many candidates.\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:59 PM, John Watkins \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I don't think either of those is a problem. The Plan of Pas is in\nmotion even during the period that Pas is \"dead,\" and depending on\nwhat we accept about Silk's parentage, that foreknowledge problem gets\ncleared up right away.\n\n\n\n\nOn 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Sure, Pas has a motive, but there are problems.\nFirstly, Pas is likely dead during the early part of the tetralogy as he\nmakes his comeback in Epiphany. Secondly, he also has a foreknowledge\nproblem regarding Silk being the best for the evacuation. Finally, I am\nspecifically interested in actual evidence as we have seen that there\nare\nlots of people with motives to get Silk installed.\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:32 PM, John Watkins \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Brings us back to Pas." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90901141115g1987d311w169f077369c7b9c9@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T19:15:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<93d4039f0901141112iefea275ubd9050a179bb2d94@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sure, why not, all sorts of things are possible, now bring on the conclusive\nevidence! Unless you simply meant to add Pas to my list of people with\nmotives." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:12 PM, John Watkins wrote:\nKypris or, potentially, a flyer.\n\nIf Silk is a special embryo with heightened leadership abilities,\netc., then it's entirely possible that his purpose from the beginning\nwas to lead an exodus.\n\nOn 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I suppose Kypris could have had it written in Pas' absence, sure.\nWhat do you mean regarding his parentage? He was a special embryo bought\nby\nTussah for his own purpose. Pas may know about his leadership abilities,\nbut that alone doesn't seem to get him to evacuating the cargo.\nEven if I grant you the above two, there's the original problem of\nconclusive evidence. Assuming Pas has the proper motive and agency, he\nis\nstill one among many candidates.\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:59 PM, John Watkins \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I don't think either of those is a problem. The Plan of Pas is in\nmotion even during the period that Pas is \"dead,\" and depending on\nwhat we accept about Silk's parentage, that foreknowledge problem gets\ncleared up right away.\n\n\n\n\nOn 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Sure, Pas has a motive, but there are problems.\nFirstly, Pas is likely dead during the early part of the tetralogy as\nhe\nmakes his comeback in Epiphany. Secondly, he also has a\nforeknowledge\nproblem regarding Silk being the best for the evacuation. Finally, I\nam\nspecifically interested in actual evidence as we have seen that there\nare\nlots of people with motives to get Silk installed.\n\nPaul\n\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:32 PM, John Watkins <\njohn.watkins04 at gmail.com>\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Brings us back to Pas." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1bf4dd40901141134la5a9acw4b815f441c916dac@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T19:34:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141115g1987d311w169f077369c7b9c9@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "John Watkins wrote:\nBrings us back to Pas." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Or back to the Outsider, who enlightened Silk with the mission to \"save the\nmanteoin,\" (which actually meant save the people of his city and evacuate\nthem to Blue). Silk's public discussion of that enlightenment got rumors to\nspread about him, probably boosted by the Outsider. If the Outsider could\ninspire one, he could inspire many others.\n\nKypris gave things a big boost a couple of days later by giving an\nappearance at the funeral -- those sacred windows had been inactive so long\nthat hardly anyone believed they would see it happen in their lifetime. That\nit happened to the same enlightened holy auger everyone was talking about\nwas a sure sign of the favor of the gods, so they must have thought." } ] }, { "message_id": "<496DEA3F.BE06.00EF.1@olivet.edu>", "from": { "name": "Stephen Case", "address": "scase at olivet.edu" }, "date": "2009-01-14T19:35:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe", "in_reply_to": "<1bf4dd40901141134la5a9acw4b815f441c916dac@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can't remember why I thought it, but I was under the impression that Chenille had been writing \"Silk for Calde\" on walls.\n \n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<558942.63780.qm@web180003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "John Smith", "address": "jsmith2627 at att.net" }, "date": "2009-01-14T19:59:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Silk for Calde", "in_reply_to": "<3e1fa2e90901141011k2a350814y52c74e53c8b62bc8@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Silk himself is responsible for one piece of graffiti When he goes to the home of Teasel, the girl who was dying from the bite of the vampire Quetzal, he tries to protect her from evil spirits by writing his name outside her window (also Patera Pike's name, if I recall correctly). I don't have the books with me, but I think the apartment was on the 5th floor. I believe that later someone reports that Silk's name had appeared high up, perhaps 5 floors up.\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:\nFrom: Paul B \nSubject: Re: (urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 1:11 PM\nIf I remember correctly, wasn't the slogan chalked on a\nrather high wall? I\nsuppose he could have gotten a ladder, and it's\ncertainly true that he has a\nmotive. But does he, or do his superiors, actually admit\nto it?\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Crane.\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Paul B\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "This reminds me of an interesting point that was\naddressed on the list\nbriefly, but inconclusively if I remember\ncorrectly. That being, who\nreally\ngot the ball rolling on \"Silk for\nCalde\"? As far as plausible motives,\nthe\nones considered were unknown confederates of\nTussah for somewhat obvious\nreasons, and Quetzal for less obvious ones (he\nsomehow had to have\nforeknowledge that Silk would have the best shot\nat starting the\nevacuation). The other possibilities are the\nNeighbors, who also\ninfiltrated the Whorl as per RttW (and have\nreason to support the\nevacuation\ntoo), and common folk who all of a sudden became\nvery impressed with Silk\n(but why?!)\nIs there any conclusive evidence out there?\n\nPaul\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Craig Brewer\n\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "But of course \"Silk for Calde\" was\nscrawled on the wall because rumor of\nhis enlightenment got around (at least\naccording to Horn)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e1fa2e90901141205q3659bdc6ib6f630c201ddffbd@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-01-14T20:05:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Silk for Calde", "in_reply_to": "<558942.63780.qm@web180003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's interesting. However, I was talking about the full \"Silk for Calde\"\nslogan, which someone must have intentionally written.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:59 PM, John Smith wrote:\nSilk himself is responsible for one piece of graffiti When he goes to\nthe home of Teasel, the girl who was dying from the bite of the vampire\nQuetzal, he tries to protect her from evil spirits by writing his name\noutside her window (also Patera Pike's name, if I recall correctly). I\ndon't have the books with me, but I think the apartment was on the 5th\nfloor. I believe that later someone reports that Silk's name had appeared\nhigh up, perhaps 5 floors up.\n\nBest wishes,\n\nJack\n\n\n--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Paul B wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: Paul B \nSubject: Re: (urth) Calde of the Long Sun and Learning to Read Wolfe\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 1:11 PM\nIf I remember correctly, wasn't the slogan chalked on a\nrather high wall? I\nsuppose he could have gotten a ladder, and it's\ncertainly true that he has a\nmotive. But does he, or do his superiors, actually admit\nto it?\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Crane.\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Paul B\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "This reminds me of an interesting point that was\naddressed on the list\nbriefly, but inconclusively if I remember\ncorrectly. That being, who\nreally\ngot the ball rolling on \"Silk for\nCalde\"? As far as plausible motives,\nthe\nones considered were unknown confederates of\nTussah for somewhat obvious\nreasons, and Quetzal for less obvious ones (he\nsomehow had to have\nforeknowledge that Silk would have the best shot\nat starting the\nevacuation). The other possibilities are the\nNeighbors, who also\ninfiltrated the Whorl as per RttW (and have\nreason to support the\nevacuation\ntoo), and common folk who all of a sudden became\nvery impressed with Silk\n(but why?!)\nIs there any conclusive evidence out there?\n\nPaul\n\nOn Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Craig Brewer\n\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "But of course \"Silk for Calde\" was\nscrawled on the wall because rumor of\nhis enlightenment got around (at least\naccording to Horn)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }