{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/533", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 533, "subject": "ExultantsComing2Urth", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1998-05-01T17:22:54+00:00", "last": "1998-05-01T19:33:00+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.geis.com" }, "date": "1998-05-01T19:33:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) ExultantsComing2Urth", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #5001329 from URTH at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET01#\n\nSeems to me, fwiw, etc. ad naseum, that the exultants are from\noffworld, probably from outsystem. They grow tall because of the\ntechnobloodmagic they practice upon their khaibits (the khaibits stay\nat their natural height of around 6 feet tall; the exultants, using\nthe royal jelly extracted from their khaibits, grow and grow, like\nBaldanders [and along the same principles] but within tasteful\nlimits, lest they turn into undines). They use a birth zodiac\nincluding the constellation of the Swan, which is more than a little\nimpossible from our solar system, but incredibly easy from any other\nstar. Severian says exultants are ancient; Jonas, who is more than\nancient, looks upon exultants with wonder and says they are quite\nnew.\n\nWhy would exultants leave Urth (if there were any true exultants on\nUrth before they came along with Typhon--see Jonas's attitude above)?\nUh, umm, because it is a hellhole backwater toxic waste dump? Lacking\nlow tech resources that have all been locked up in dead and buried\nsupercities, if not flown downstream into the ocean's trenches, in\nthose cases where they have not been blasted out into space with ships\nand offworld colonies. The main exports are slaves, furs, meat and\ntrinkets (appendix to CITADEL). In the solar system sense, it is far\nbelow \"third world\" status--it is more like equatorial Africa at the\nheight of the slave trade. The nice places to live are Verthandi\nand Lune. Typhon moving his capital to Urth (from where ever it was\nbefore) was a symbolic move that probably caused more trouble than it\nwas worth.\n\nRe: cataclysms. Well, there was a great deal of extinction, due to\npollution, over use of land, overpopulation, and/or whatever else.\nThe last animals that survived were the farm animals. Then when Urth\nwas reseeded with creatures, they came from alien worlds. (The alzabo\nis a case in point.)\n\nRe: Beunos Aires as Nessus. Step one: draw your map of the\nCommonwealth. Step two: look at the map given in PLAN[E]T\nENGINEERING. Repeat as necessary.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mark Millman", "address": "mark_millman at hmco.com" }, "date": "1998-05-01T17:22:54+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) ExultantsComing2Urth", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hey mantis--\n\nWhile I personally agree that the exultants, whether they are\nsystematically (i.e., genetically) taller or individually (i.e.,\nroyally-jellied) taller, probably have returned from outsystem (and, by the\nway, I don't believe they first left for the stars as exultants; I think\nthat must be a later development), who's to say that the Swan (the only\nzodiacal sign mentioned in BotNS, no?) is the same one we see? Just to\nplay devil's advocate: how different will the constellations be after one\nor two or fifty million years? The Swan could well be a New Swan and not\nour Cygnus. The fact that Wolfe, as \"translator\", chooses to say \"Swan\"\nrather than \"Cygnus\" may be significant. And Severian doesn't seem to\nthink it odd that Thecla mentions the Swan rather than one of our canonical\nsigns.\n\nA side issue in relation to this: Severian refers to the exultants as\nancient families, while Jonas claims that they are the newest of families.\nDoes this imply that Jonas actually knows of older surviving families? (A\nside note to the side note: While the time scales are of course totally\ndifferent, in Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover books, the Hasturs are an\nold and powerful family. It's known, however (at least to the\nwell-informed), that there are older families than those of the powerful\npsis; these, we find out, are families surviving from several of the\noriginal colonists who first landed on Darkover, and who were usurped by\nthe Hasturs and their allies.) I'd argue yes; though Jonas almost\ncertainly has not been traveling in the haunts of power, he has undoubtedly\nbeen much further, geographically, than we've been told. Perhaps, like\nEata, he's visited the Xanthic Lands. While we only get to see the\nCommonwealth and a sliver of Ascian society, it appears that exultants may\nbe limited to the Autarch's dominions. Certainly, if there had been Ascian\nexultants, they at least have long since been subsumed, perhaps subverted,\nby the Populace (could the blind mounts that Severian faced once have been\nexultants?). But there's no reason to suppose that they exist outside of\nthe Commonwealth. They should at first have clustered around the seat of\npower (I doubt, if they were Typhon's generals, for example, that he\ntrusted them out of his sight), and later may have remained where they were\nthrough inertia or a desire to remain near their compatriots. The book of\nexultant lineages that Gurloes shows Severian doesn't seem to imply that\nthere are any extra-Commonwealth ones; there would surely have been some\nintermarriage between nations if exultants were more widely distributed.\nBut wait! In UotNS, Severian never mentions seeing any exultants (though I\ngrant that he doesn't mention an unusual lack of them, either), either in\nTyphon's mountain city or in the pre-Citadel port. These are the haunts of\npower. perhaps the exultant families aren't created, or don't arrive,\nuntil the Commonwealth period has begun, and their \"ancientness\" is an\nartifact of their power and visibility. Valeria's family, which Severian\nsuggests is the oldest of which he personally knows, is certainly not an\nexulted one.\n\nWell, enough of that. I'm really more interested in whether anyone has\nread most or all of Shirley Jackson's works, and whether there are other\npossible influences on Wolfe among them.\n\nMark Millman" } ] } ] }