{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5378", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5378, "subject": "Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "messages": 16, "voices": 9, "first": "2009-03-20T18:36:39+00:00", "last": "2009-03-23T00:55:46+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<000001c9a98a$cf123df0$6d36b9d0$@com>", "from": { "name": "Brian Lovely", "address": "brian at studiobl.com" }, "date": "2009-03-20T18:36:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Remember that hybrids are a big part of the story. That long bit with\nSilk/Horn, the farmer, and how to cross corn wasn't there for nothing.\nPlus, in the books, transferring blood transfers more than...well, blood.\nThe blood confers some of the donor's being, creating a kind of hybrid.\n\nAlso, the neighbors resemble and/or are heavily associated with trees. When\nKrait is dying on Green, the trees are described in very human terms. The\ntree in the pit with Horn was a Neighbor who ate Horn, or consumed his\ncorpse, or somehow otherwise hybridized with him.\n\n-Brian Lovely\n\nJordon Flato wrote:\n\nI would agree that chasing the stag, falling in the Pit (which was in the\nmidst of a classic faerie circle of the ruins) represented a crossing over\nof sorts, but I don't think it necessitates Horns death. That is a turning\npoint in the narrative for a number of reasons, not the least of which is\nthat it brings Horn directly to the attention of the neighbors (without, I\nwould posit, necessitating a transfer of 'souls' into Horn).\n\nI grant it is possible, but I just don't see it yet." } ] }, { "message_id": "<273409710903201154l536d0fabgb7849b3c456b6466@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflato at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-03-20T18:54:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "<000001c9a98a$cf123df0$6d36b9d0$@com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You know, I just read this part, and I can't find any reference to a Tree\nbeing in there with him, much less anything close to resembling a tree\neating his corpse. A Neighbor comes in (he thinks it a spider or\nsomething). As a matter of fact, I just reread that, and there is not\nmention or even hint of a tree(s) being in the pit with Horn, so I don't\nknow where this comes from. Can you cite anything?\n\nI do see the Neigbors associated with Trees on some level, but not as\nprojections. The Neighbors as for permission to visit this world, and\nindicate they have left this world to go to another. How is that connected\nto the Trees? The trees obviously don't leave (no pun intended). Are the\ntrees Spirit Antennae or something which allow the Neighbors to transmit\nthemselves back to Blue?\n\nI don't see nearly as direct a connection between the trees and the\nNeighbors as some seem to, although I will admit there is some possible\nconnection, no doubt.\n\nBut there is no tree in the pit. Not from textual references anyway.\n\nRE: Hybridization. YES! This is the one thing which is making me\nseriously consider that a neighbor did something siginficant in this respect\nto Horn in the pit. It fits thematically." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Brian Lovely wrote:\nRemember that hybrids are a big part of the story. That long bit with\nSilk/Horn, the farmer, and how to cross corn wasn't there for nothing.\nPlus, in the books, transferring blood transfers more than...well, blood.\nThe blood confers some of the donor's being, creating a kind of hybrid.\n\nAlso, the neighbors resemble and/or are heavily associated with trees.\n When\nKrait is dying on Green, the trees are described in very human terms. The\ntree in the pit with Horn was a Neighbor who ate Horn, or consumed his\ncorpse, or somehow otherwise hybridized with him.\n\n-Brian Lovely\n\nJordon Flato wrote:\n\nI would agree that chasing the stag, falling in the Pit (which was in the\nmidst of a classic faerie circle of the ruins) represented a crossing over\nof sorts, but I don't think it necessitates Horns death. That is a turning\npoint in the narrative for a number of reasons, not the least of which is\nthat it brings Horn directly to the attention of the neighbors (without, I\nwould posit, necessitating a transfer of 'souls' into Horn).\n\nI grant it is possible, but I just don't see it yet.\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2009-03-20T19:00:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "<273409710903201154l536d0fabgb7849b3c456b6466@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mar 20, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:\nAre the trees Spirit Antennae or something which allow the Neighbors \nto transmit themselves back to Blue?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If they're Antennae then they're on the Neighbors' heads, and \ntherefore the Trees Are Their Hats.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<273409710903201202o4ee2155au4104cda419876948@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflato at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-03-20T19:02:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Very well played sir!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:\n\nOn Mar 20, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:\n\n Are the trees Spirit Antennae or something which allow the Neighbors to\ntransmit themselves back to Blue?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If they're Antennae then they're on the Neighbors' heads, and therefore the\nTrees Are Their Hats.\n\nAdam\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2009-03-20T20:06:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "<273409710903201202o4ee2155au4104cda419876948@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Jordon, what was that you were telling me about the Corn genetics that had a more metaphoric angle? I can't quite remember, yet I seem to think there was more resonance for me than this literal stuff.\n\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Jordon Flato [mailto:jordonflato at gmail.com]\nSent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:54 AM\nTo: 'The Urth Mailing List'\nSubject: Re: (urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)\n\nYou know, I just read this part, and I can't find any reference to a Tree\nbeing in there with him, much less anything close to resembling a tree\neating his corpse. A Neighbor comes in (he thinks it a spider or\nsomething). As a matter of fact, I just reread that, and there is not\nmention or even hint of a tree(s) being in the pit with Horn, so I don't\nknow where this comes from. Can you cite anything?\n\nI do see the Neigbors associated with Trees on some level, but not as\nprojections. The Neighbors as for permission to visit this world, and\nindicate they have left this world to go to another. How is that connected\nto the Trees? The trees obviously don't leave (no pun intended). Are the\ntrees Spirit Antennae or something which allow the Neighbors to transmit\nthemselves back to Blue?\n\nI don't see nearly as direct a connection between the trees and the\nNeighbors as some seem to, although I will admit there is some possible\nconnection, no doubt.\n\nBut there is no tree in the pit. Not from textual references anyway.\n\nRE: Hybridization. YES! This is the one thing which is making me\nseriously consider that a neighbor did something siginficant in this respect\nto Horn in the pit. It fits thematically.\n\nOn Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Brian Lovely wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Remember that hybrids are a big part of the story. That long bit with\nSilk/Horn, the farmer, and how to cross corn wasn't there for nothing.\nPlus, in the books, transferring blood transfers more than...well, blood.\nThe blood confers some of the donor's being, creating a kind of hybrid.\n\nAlso, the neighbors resemble and/or are heavily associated with trees.\n When\nKrait is dying on Green, the trees are described in very human terms. The\ntree in the pit with Horn was a Neighbor who ate Horn, or consumed his\ncorpse, or somehow otherwise hybridized with him.\n\n-Brian Lovely\n\nJordon Flato wrote:\n\nI would agree that chasing the stag, falling in the Pit (which was in the\nmidst of a classic faerie circle of the ruins) represented a crossing over\nof sorts, but I don't think it necessitates Horns death. That is a turning\npoint in the narrative for a number of reasons, not the least of which is\nthat it brings Horn directly to the attention of the neighbors (without, I\nwould posit, necessitating a transfer of 'souls' into Horn).\n\nI grant it is possible, but I just don't see it yet.\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<49C3F9D8.6070406@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2009-03-20T20:17:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "that IS a problem!\n\nSure, why not? ;)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\n\nMessage: 6\nDate: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:54:42 -0700\nFrom: Jordon Flato \nSubject: Re: (urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)\nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nMessage-ID:\n\t<273409710903201154l536d0fabgb7849b3c456b6466 at mail.gmail.com>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"iso-8859-1\"\n\n\n\nI do see the Neigbors associated with Trees on some level, but not as\nprojections. The Neighbors as for permission to visit this world, and\nindicate they have left this world to go to another. How is that connected\nto the Trees? The trees obviously don't leave (no pun intended). Are the\ntrees Spirit Antennae or something which allow the Neighbors to transmit\nthemselves back to Blue?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<273409710903201348j7d748d4fme54f725483869f24@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflato at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-03-20T20:48:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not ready to lay that out on the list yet, but maybe over lunch next week we\ncan spin it out. ;)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Son of Witz wrote:\nJordon, what was that you were telling me about the Corn genetics that had\na more metaphoric angle? I can't quite remember, yet I seem to think there\nwas more resonance for me than this literal stuff.\n\n~witz" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Jordon Flato [mailto:jordonflato at gmail.com]\nSent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:54 AM\nTo: 'The Urth Mailing List'\nSubject: Re: (urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)\n\nYou know, I just read this part, and I can't find any reference to a Tree\nbeing in there with him, much less anything close to resembling a tree\neating his corpse. A Neighbor comes in (he thinks it a spider or\nsomething). As a matter of fact, I just reread that, and there is not\nmention or even hint of a tree(s) being in the pit with Horn, so I don't\nknow where this comes from. Can you cite anything?\n\nI do see the Neigbors associated with Trees on some level, but not as\nprojections. The Neighbors as for permission to visit this world, and\nindicate they have left this world to go to another. How is that\nconnected\nto the Trees? The trees obviously don't leave (no pun intended). Are the\ntrees Spirit Antennae or something which allow the Neighbors to transmit\nthemselves back to Blue?\n\nI don't see nearly as direct a connection between the trees and the\nNeighbors as some seem to, although I will admit there is some possible\nconnection, no doubt.\n\nBut there is no tree in the pit. Not from textual references anyway.\n\nRE: Hybridization. YES! This is the one thing which is making me\nseriously consider that a neighbor did something siginficant in this\nrespect\nto Horn in the pit. It fits thematically.\n\nOn Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Brian Lovely \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Remember that hybrids are a big part of the story. That long bit with\nSilk/Horn, the farmer, and how to cross corn wasn't there for nothing.\nPlus, in the books, transferring blood transfers more than...well,\nblood.\nThe blood confers some of the donor's being, creating a kind of hybrid.\n\nAlso, the neighbors resemble and/or are heavily associated with trees.\n When\nKrait is dying on Green, the trees are described in very human terms." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " The\ntree in the pit with Horn was a Neighbor who ate Horn, or consumed his\ncorpse, or somehow otherwise hybridized with him." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "-Brian Lovely\n\nJordon Flato wrote:\n\nI would agree that chasing the stag, falling in the Pit (which was in\nthe\nmidst of a classic faerie circle of the ruins) represented a crossing\nover\nof sorts, but I don't think it necessitates Horns death. That is a\nturning\npoint in the narrative for a number of reasons, not the least of which\nis\nthat it brings Horn directly to the attention of the neighbors (without,\nI\nwould posit, necessitating a transfer of 'souls' into Horn).\n\nI grant it is possible, but I just don't see it yet.\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<00e601c9aaf4$2c245310$846cf930$@com>", "from": { "name": "Brian Lovely", "address": "brian at studiobl.com" }, "date": "2009-03-22T13:43:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "<273409710903201348j7d748d4fme54f725483869f24@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Y'know, I think I got the tree in the pit from all the other tree-references\nthroughout the books. Also because the Inhumi seem to be associated with\nparasitic vines-Incanto's staff is a vine that has a kind of face on the\ntop, and appears to unsettle people, as if it is more than just a stick of\nwood. I put this together with the \"bristly hand\" (not sure of the\ndescription from the book) that Horn feels, and got a tree. Isn't there\nalso a \"maw\" of some kind? I remember getting an image of a typical\nfairy-story anthropomorphic tree with some kind of hollow serving as a\nmouth. \"Spider\" and \"man with a long nose\" made me think of various\nimpressions a dying man might get from a mobile, anthropomorphic tree.\n \n.plus, there's the ruined greenhouse-dome Horn and Seawrack find. Has\nintelligent life on Green evolved from plants? Are the Neighbors\ntree-people, and know that they must retain their vigor through\nhybridization? As primitive as the Inhumi are without benefit of human\nblood-like leeches or fish-did they begin as parasitic vines? \n \n \nJordon Flato wrote:\n\n \n\n \n\nYou know, I just read this part, and I can't find any reference to a Tree\n\nbeing in there with him, much less anything close to resembling a tree\n\neating his corpse. A Neighbor comes in (he thinks it a spider or\n\nsomething). As a matter of fact, I just reread that, and there is not\n\nmention or even hint of a tree(s) being in the pit with Horn, so I don't\n\nknow where this comes from. Can you cite anything?\n\n \n\nI do see the Neigbors associated with Trees on some level, but not as\n\nprojections. The Neighbors as for permission to visit this world, and\n\nindicate they have left this world to go to another. How is that connected\n\nto the Trees? The trees obviously don't leave (no pun intended). Are the\n\ntrees Spirit Antennae or something which allow the Neighbors to transmit\n\nthemselves back to Blue?\n\n \n\nI don't see nearly as direct a connection between the trees and the\n\nNeighbors as some seem to, although I will admit there is some possible\n\nconnection, no doubt.\n\n \n\nBut there is no tree in the pit. Not from textual references anyway.\n\n \n\nRE: Hybridization. YES! This is the one thing which is making me\n\nseriously consider that a neighbor did something siginficant in this respect\n\nto Horn in the pit. It fits thematically.\n\n \n\n \n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<49C67428.60604@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2009-03-22T17:23:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "<00e601c9aaf4$2c245310$846cf930$@com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The inhumi are usually referred to as reptilian, but I got the impression from somewhere that they did indeed evolve from plants. Wouldn't be surprised if the Neighbors did too.\n\nIt fits that they can survive when buried (thus, inhumi), and it fits the discussion of plant hybridization." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMessage: 1\nDate: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:43:24 -0400\nFrom: \"Brian Lovely\" \nSubject: (urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)\nTo: \nMessage-ID: <00e601c9aaf4$2c245310$846cf930$@com>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"\n\nY'know, I think I got the tree in the pit from all the other tree-references\nthroughout the books. Also because the Inhumi seem to be associated with\nparasitic vines-Incanto's staff is a vine that has a kind of face on the\ntop, and appears to unsettle people, as if it is more than just a stick of\nwood. I put this together with the \"bristly hand\" (not sure of the\ndescription from the book) that Horn feels, and got a tree. Isn't there\nalso a \"maw\" of some kind? I remember getting an image of a typical\nfairy-story anthropomorphic tree with some kind of hollow serving as a\nmouth. \"Spider\" and \"man with a long nose\" made me think of various\nimpressions a dying man might get from a mobile, anthropomorphic tree.\n \n.plus, there's the ruined greenhouse-dome Horn and Seawrack find. Has\nintelligent life on Green evolved from plants? Are the Neighbors\ntree-people, and know that they must retain their vigor through\nhybridization? As primitive as the Inhumi are without benefit of human\nblood-like leeches or fish-did they begin as parasitic vines? " } ] }, { "message_id": "<0953BB5E840E4DCAB1334921F3804663@eMachinePC>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-03-22T21:16:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "<49C67428.60604@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The inhumi are usually referred to as reptilian, but I got the impression \nfrom somewhere that they did\nindeed evolve from plants. Wouldn't be surprised if the Neighbors did too.\nIt fits that they can survive when buried (thus, inhumi), and it fits the\ndiscussion of plant hybridization." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In some way that I haven't got my mind around, the Neighbors are trees on \nBlue and the Inhumi are vines. The story talks about the vines being the \nbrides of the trees IIRC and the trees and vines being in endless war with \neach other. This fits with the faerie motif of the stories which Tolkien was \nalso plugged into. It also works in a vague way with the Actaeon/Orpheus \nconnection.\n\nIf Rose can become a robot, if Chenille can be come an inhumi and then a \nwoman on Urth, if the Calde's girlfriend can become computer interface and \nthen a goddess of love and then sybil and then a general, if a Neighbor can \nbecome a stag and then Horn and then Silk, THEN if wouldn't surprise me if \nWolfe has figured out a way for inhumi to become vines.\n\nHowever, I have presumed all the talk of plant hybridization relates to the \nRajan after he is combined with Horn and Silk and whatever.\n\nJ. " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris P", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2009-03-22T22:21:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "<0953BB5E840E4DCAB1334921F3804663@eMachinePC>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The inhumi are usually referred to as reptilian, but I got the impression \nfrom somewhere that they did\nindeed evolve from plants. Wouldn't be surprised if the Neighbors did too.\nIt fits that they can survive when buried (thus, inhumi), and it fits the\ndiscussion of plant hybridization." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In some way that I haven't got my mind around, the Neighbors are trees on \nBlue and the Inhumi are vines. The story talks about the vines being the \nbrides of the trees IIRC and the trees and vines being in endless war with \neach other. This fits with the faerie motif of the stories which Tolkien was \nalso plugged into. It also works in a vague way with the Actaeon/Orpheus \nconnection.\n\nIf Rose can become a robot, if Chenille can be come an inhumi and then a \nwoman on Urth, if the Calde's girlfriend can become computer interface and \nthen a goddess of love and then sybil and then a general, if a Neighbor can \nbecome a stag and then Horn and then Silk, THEN if wouldn't surprise me if \nWolfe has figured out a way for inhumi to become vines.\n\nHowever, I have presumed all the talk of plant hybridization relates to the \nRajan after he is combined with Horn and Silk and whatever.\n\nJ. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Chenille became an inhumi? Maybe it's been far too long since I read the books, but I don't recall that at all.\n\n_________________________________________________________________\nInternet Explorer 8 — Now Available. Faster, safer, easier.\nhttp://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/141323790/direct/01/" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-03-22T22:32:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Chenille became an inhumi? Maybe it's been far too long since\nI read the books, but I don't recall that at all." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, there are doubters about almost everything in a Wolfe novel,\nisn't there? But there's a scene where Jahlee comes into a bar after\nfeeding on a drunk victim. The Raja hears her voice and thinks she's\nChenille. Based on that, I'm convinced that Jahlee's mother fed on\nChenille and so Jahlee has her soul within her, just as Sinew's soul\nis within Krait.\n\nHeck, maybe I'm out there alone regarding Krait as well.\n\nJ." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris P", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2009-03-22T22:55:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Chenille became an inhumi? Maybe it's been far too long since\nI read the books, but I don't recall that at all." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, there are doubters about almost everything in a Wolfe novel,\nisn't there? But there's a scene where Jahlee comes into a bar after\nfeeding on a drunk victim. The Raja hears her voice and thinks she's\nChenille. Based on that, I'm convinced that Jahlee's mother fed on\nChenille and so Jahlee has her soul within her, just as Sinew's soul\nis within Krait.\n\nHeck, maybe I'm out there alone regarding Krait as well.\n\nJ." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This may just be an extension of the general problem of identity in the books. I don't have a problem with seeing Sinew within Krait, in a sense, but the idea that Krait IS Sinew seems off to me. Similarly with Chenille." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-03-22T23:18:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, there are doubters about almost everything in a Wolfe novel,\nisn't there? But there's a scene where Jahlee comes into a bar after\nfeeding on a drunk victim. The Raja hears her voice and thinks she's\nChenille. Based on that, I'm convinced that Jahlee's mother fed on\nChenille and so Jahlee has her soul within her, just as Sinew's soul\nis within Krait.\nHeck, maybe I'm out there alone regarding Krait as well." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This may just be an extension of the general problem of identity in the\nbooks. I don't have a problem with seeing Sinew within Krait, in a sense,\nbut the idea that Krait IS Sinew seems off to me. Similarly with Chenille." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'd say it is exactly the issue of identity in the books and I don't\nsuppose we're going come to a meeting of the minds on this. To the\nextent that Rose becomes Marble, Sinew becomes Krait.\n\nResurrected Horn calls Krait his son. Add to that that IMO resurrected\nHorn is not exactly Horn anymore and you see (as I see it anyway)\nWolfe is deliberately pushing the idea of identity to its conceptional\nlimits.\n\nAlso, note that the Raja calls Jahlee his sister and his daughter. And\nhe tells Hoof or Hide (during dream travel) that Jahlee could be his\nsister.\n\nJ." } ] }, { "message_id": "<515079.34972.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2009-03-22T23:34:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I just read that confusing scene and this makes as much sense as anything IMHO\n\n\n???? Skype? stuart.hamm\nmyspace.com/stuhamm\n? ??? stuarthamm.net\n\n\n--- On Sun, 3/22/09, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: James Wynn \nSubject: Re: (urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 3:32 PM\nChenille became an inhumi? Maybe it's been far too long since\nI read the books, but I don't recall that at all." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, there are doubters about almost everything in a Wolfe novel,\nisn't there? But there's a scene where Jahlee comes into a bar after\nfeeding on a drunk victim. The Raja hears her voice and thinks she's\nChenille. Based on that, I'm convinced that Jahlee's mother fed on\nChenille and so Jahlee has her soul within her, just as Sinew's soul\nis within Krait.\n\nHeck, maybe I'm out there alone regarding Krait as well.\n\nJ." } ] }, { "message_id": "<93d4039f0903221755m211d2b30hbc666ffe01e78dbc@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-03-23T00:55:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Blood Pudding (was Neighbors as Faeries)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Chris P wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Chenille became an inhumi? Maybe it's been far too long since\nI read the books, but I don't recall that at all." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, there are doubters about almost everything in a Wolfe novel,\nisn't there? But there's a scene where Jahlee comes into a bar after\nfeeding on a drunk victim. The Raja hears her voice and thinks she's\nChenille. Based on that, I'm convinced that Jahlee's mother fed on\nChenille and so Jahlee has her soul within her, just as Sinew's soul\nis within Krait.\n\nHeck, maybe I'm out there alone regarding Krait as well.\n\nJ." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This may just be an extension of the general problem of identity in the\nbooks. I don't have a problem with seeing Sinew within Krait, in a sense,\nbut the idea that Krait IS Sinew seems off to me. Similarly with Chenille." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Krait has a copy of Sinew's soul, but it's a copy of Sinew's Thomistic soul\nfrom when Sinew was extremely young--they're more like identical twins then\nlike being \"the same person\" because Sinew's personality wasn't very\nindividualized at that point.\n\nChenille/Jahlee ought to be a little different--Jahlee would have the\npersonality of Chenille at an adult age, and so effectively be Chenille." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\nWindows Live? SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Check it out.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }