Urth Digest, Vol 57, Issue 30

The Urth list — 3 messages, 3 voices, 19 May 2009
https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5438

David Stockhoff19 May 2009, 22:10
Thank you for this.
15 quoted lines
------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:51:17 -0500 From: Lane Haygood <lhaygood at gmail.com> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Message-ID: <9C6B0298-D857-46D7-80F4-0E74FA6F4720 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes ... The substitution of civil government/society with a profit driven market removes this universally-agreed as beneficial goal of cooperation and replaced it with a unilateral goal of profit. As wealth cannot be created ex nihilo, profit must arise from a producer taking more than a product is worth. This is only possible on a market where supply and demand are manipulated against the interest of the consumer. Thus, the market is merely the latest iteration of the master-slave relation. It is the battlefield of class conflict. How does calling taxes imposed by a lawful sovereign equal theft, but the creation of profit not equal extortion by a self-selected, undemocratic oligarchy? Individuals and individual liberty are only meaningful insofar as a civil legal system ensures they are protected. Authoritarian abuses by right and left ignore this. Free markets actively surpress it by economic manipulation. ...
John Watkins19 May 2009, 22:20

↳ in reply to David Stockhoff

Do economists still take the account of the nature of profit explained below seriously? I encountered it in school myself, laughed at it, and was assured that I wasn not expected to *believe *it.
28 quoted lines
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote: Thank you for this. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:51:17 -0500 From: Lane Haygood <lhaygood at gmail.com> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Message-ID: <9C6B0298-D857-46D7-80F4-0E74FA6F4720 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes ... The substitution of civil government/society with a profit driven market removes this universally-agreed as beneficial goal of cooperation and replaced it with a unilateral goal of profit. As wealth cannot be created ex nihilo, profit must arise from a producer taking more than a product is worth. This is only possible on a market where supply and demand are manipulated against the interest of the consumer. Thus, the market is merely the latest iteration of the master-slave relation. It is the battlefield of class conflict. How does calling taxes imposed by a lawful sovereign equal theft, but the creation of profit not equal extortion by a self-selected, undemocratic oligarchy? Individuals and individual liberty are only meaningful insofar as a civil legal system ensures they are protected. Authoritarian abuses by right and left ignore this. Free markets actively surpress it by economic manipulation. ... --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090519-0, 05/19/2009 Tested on: 5/19/2009 6:10:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________
brunians at brunians.org19 May 2009, 22:25

↳ in reply to John Watkins

I believe that Marxist economists (a contradiction in terms if ever I saw one) do take this seriously. Wealth is created literally all of the time. That it is not is one of the most destructive of Marxian delusions. .
32 quoted lines · 1–2 deep
Do economists still take the account of the nature of profit explained below seriously? I encountered it in school myself, laughed at it, and was assured that I wasn not expected to *believe *it. On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 6:10 PM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:
Thank you for this. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:51:17 -0500 From: Lane Haygood <lhaygood at gmail.com> Subject: Re: (urth) Gene Wolfe Fans Talk Politics (Again) To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net> Message-ID: <9C6B0298-D857-46D7-80F4-0E74FA6F4720 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes ... The substitution of civil government/society with a profit driven market removes this universally-agreed as beneficial goal of cooperation and replaced it with a unilateral goal of profit. As wealth cannot be created ex nihilo, profit must arise from a producer taking more than a product is worth. This is only possible on a market where supply and demand are manipulated against the interest of the consumer. Thus, the market is merely the latest iteration of the master-slave relation. It is the battlefield of class conflict. How does calling taxes imposed by a lawful sovereign equal theft, but the creation of profit not equal extortion by a self-selected, undemocratic oligarchy? Individuals and individual liberty are only meaningful insofar as a civil legal system ensures they are protected. Authoritarian abuses by right and left ignore this. Free markets actively surpress it by economic manipulation. ... --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090519-0, 05/19/2009 Tested on: 5/19/2009 6:10:42 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________

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