{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5477", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5477, "subject": "OT: French translations", "messages": 7, "voices": 3, "first": "2009-08-05T06:12:06+00:00", "last": "2009-08-10T02:28:36+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "gwern0 at gmail.com", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-08-05T06:12:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: French translations", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi everyone. This is a rather off-topic request, but bear with me. I'm desultorily learning myself some French this summer, and I've decided that since I'm only really interested in reading French (and not so much in speaking or writing it), that the best thing to do would be to simply translate some large French work into English and learn as I go*.\n\nBut when I tried with one text, I discovered my motivation was zero - as it was already translated. So I need something which hasn't been translated before; unfortunately, all the texts I know worth translating are the ones which *have* been translated!\n\nSince Urth.netters seem to know everyone and everything worth knowing in literature, here's my challenge: what reasonably short, reasonably basic yet untranslated French text is there which I could translate? Bonus points if it's in the public domain, and triple bonus points if it's also Gene-Wolfe-related.\n\n* I'm also developing a little program along the lines of http://jtauber.com/blog/2008/02/10/a_new_kind_of_graded_reader/ but I can currently only test it on English texts; being able to work through a French text and see how it performs would let me tweak it." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern" } ] }, { "message_id": "<49648.66.126.239.225.1249453581.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2009-08-05T06:26:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: French translations", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Why not translate some GW short stories into French?\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hi everyone. This is a rather off-topic request, but bear with me. I'm\ndesultorily learning myself some French this summer, and I've decided that\nsince I'm only really interested in reading French (and not so much in\nspeaking or writing it), that the best thing to do would be to simply\ntranslate some large French work into English and learn as I go*.\n\nBut when I tried with one text, I discovered my motivation was zero - as\nit was already translated. So I need something which hasn't been\ntranslated before; unfortunately, all the texts I know worth translating\nare the ones which *have* been translated!\n\nSince Urth.netters seem to know everyone and everything worth knowing in\nliterature, here's my challenge: what reasonably short, reasonably basic\nyet untranslated French text is there which I could translate? Bonus\npoints if it's in the public domain, and triple bonus points if it's also\nGene-Wolfe-related.\n\n* I'm also developing a little program along the lines of\nhttp://jtauber.com/blog/2008/02/10/a_new_kind_of_graded_reader/ but I can\ncurrently only test it on English texts; being able to work through a\nFrench text and see how it performs would let me tweak it.\n\n--\ngwern_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<323039.37086.qm@web50710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-08-05T13:49:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: French translations", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Wed, 8/5/09, gwern0 at gmail.com wrote:\nHi everyone. This is a rather\noff-topic request, but bear with me. I'm desultorily\nlearning myself some French this summer, and I've decided\nthat since I'm only really interested in reading French (and\nnot so much in speaking or writing it), that the best thing\nto do would be to simply translate some large French work\ninto English and learn as I go*." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Si tu m'avais pos? la question, je t'aurais dit que c'est\ncompl?tement fou. Mais tu te connais — toi-m?me, et moi\nje ne te connais pas.\n\n(Lucky for you my French isn't good enough to answer your\nquestion, so the rest of this post will be in English.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But when I tried with one text, I discovered my motivation\nwas zero - as it was already translated. So I need something\nwhich hasn't been translated before; unfortunately, all the\ntexts I know worth translating are the ones which *have*\nbeen translated!\n\nSince Urth.netters seem to know everyone and everything\nworth knowing in literature, here's my challenge: what\nreasonably short, reasonably basic yet untranslated French\ntext is there which I could translate? Bonus points if it's\nin the public domain, and triple bonus points if it's also\nGene-Wolfe-related." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't know any, but have you tried searching for \"Gene\nWolfe\" on French-language pages (using Google Advanced\nSearch, for example)? Or searching http://www.amazon.fr/ ?\n\nI suppose a French text on this subject is unlikely to be\nat a basic level, though.\n\nFor non-Wolfe pages, see\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_needing_translation_from_French_Wikipedia\n\nIf you decide to do that, you'll also want to read\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TRANSLATION\n\nWikipedia is nice for this (and likewise for practicing\nwriting in a foreign language, for those who want to do\nthat) because you often get corrected.\n\nI know people who have gotten good results from a different\nstrategy for learning a foreign language--read a book in\nthat language that they know well in their own. If you\nchoose TBotNS, you can learn the French for quite common\nwords such as \"bordereau\".\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-08-05T16:08:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: French translations", "in_reply_to": "<49648.66.126.239.225.1249453581.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:26 AM, wrote:\nWhy not translate some GW short stories into French?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I find French->English much easier; also, translations of anything by Wolfe would be derivative works and so copyvios. I'm sure Wolfe would not sue me if I happened to post a French translation online, but if I'm doing all this purely for my own edification, I can at least hew to my principles and produce Free stuff." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-08-05T16:22:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: French translations", "in_reply_to": "<323039.37086.qm@web50710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:\n--- On Wed, 8/5/09, gwern0 at gmail.com wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hi everyone. This is a rather\noff-topic request, but bear with me. I'm desultorily\nlearning myself some French this summer, and I've decided\nthat since I'm only really interested in reading French (and\nnot so much in speaking or writing it), that the best thing\nto do would be to simply translate some large French work\ninto English and learn as I go*." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Si tu m'avais pos? la question, je t'aurais dit que c'est\ncompl?tement fou. ?Mais tu te connais — toi-m?me, et moi\nje ne te connais pas." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ouch. It seemed like a good idea to me - if I want to read French, then the logical direction is French->English, not vice-versa...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't know any, but have you tried searching for \"Gene\nWolfe\" on French-language pages (using Google Advanced\nSearch, for example)? ?Or searching http://www.amazon.fr/ ?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Amazon has a very impressive selection of Wolfe works - I was expecting to see Book of the New Sun at most, but I see Fifth Head of Cerberus, New Sun, Long Sun, Wizard-Knight, The Island of Doctor Death (strangely, it's just 'L'?le du docteur Mort et autres histoires'. Maybe the publisher didn't get the joke.), the Book of Days, Peace... But same objection as with Brunians." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I suppose a French text on this subject is unlikely to be\nat a basic level, though.\n\nFor non-Wolfe pages, see\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_needing_translation_from_French_Wikipedia\n\nIf you decide to do that, you'll also want to read\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TRANSLATION\n\nWikipedia is nice for this (and likewise for practicing\nwriting in a foreign language, for those who want to do\nthat) because you often get corrected." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...I feel very foolish now. Here I am, 5-6 years of Wikipedia editing, and my one thought was 'well, I don't want English->French, so anything Wikipedia (en->fr) is out' - never once thinking that there might be need of the other direction.\n\n(Short articles aren't very good for testing my program, but that was the most minor of my desiderata, so no point carping about it.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I know people who have gotten good results from a different\nstrategy for learning a foreign language--read a book in\nthat language that they know well in their own. ?If you\nchoose TBotNS, you can learn the French for quite common\nwords such as \"bordereau\".\n\nJerry Friedman" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern" } ] }, { "message_id": "<786475.3868.qm@web50702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-08-05T17:06:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: French translations", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Gwern Branwen wrote:\nOn Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Jerry\nFriedman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "--- On Wed, 8/5/09, gwern0 at gmail.com\n\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Hi everyone. This is a rather\noff-topic request, but bear with me. I'm\ndesultorily\nlearning myself some French this summer, and I've\ndecided\nthat since I'm only really interested in reading\nFrench (and\nnot so much in speaking or writing it), that the\nbest thing\nto do would be to simply translate some large\nFrench work\ninto English and learn as I go*." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Si tu m'avais pos? la question, je t'aurais dit que\nc'est\ncompl?tement fou. ?Mais tu te connais — toi-m?me,\net moi\nje ne te connais pas." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Ouch. It seemed like a good idea to me - if I want to read\nFrench, then the logical direction is French->English,\nnot vice-versa...." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What I was thinking of as crazy was taking on a large\nwork and giving yourself the extra task of putting it\ninto good English, instead of just reading something\nthat interests you. However, I may have underestimated\nyour knowledge of French." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I don't know any, but have you tried searching for\n\"Gene\nWolfe\" on French-language pages (using Google\nAdvanced\nSearch, for example)? ?Or searching http://www.amazon.fr/ ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Amazon has a very impressive selection of Wolfe works - I\nwas expecting to see Book of the New Sun at most, but I see\nFifth Head of Cerberus, New Sun, Long Sun, Wizard-Knight,\nThe Island of Doctor Death (strangely, it's just 'L'?le du\ndocteur Mort et autres histoires'. Maybe the publisher\ndidn't get the joke.), the Book of Days, Peace... But same\nobjection as with Brunians." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...\n\nI seem to have left out my point. I was hoping you could\nfind an essay on Wolfe or a review of one of his writings.\nAnd I didn't realize you wanted a free text.\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-08-10T02:28:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: French translations", "in_reply_to": "<786475.3868.qm@web50702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:\n\nI seem to have left out my point. ?I was hoping you could\nfind an essay on Wolfe or a review of one of his writings.\nAnd I didn't realize you wanted a free text." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, in my first email I had public domain as a desideratum, and in\nmy second I clarified/expanded that to 'Free' works. (Can't say I\ndidn't try!)" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern" } ] } ] }