{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5492", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5492, "subject": "Theological Science Fiction (Was: Silk for calde blog: Wolfe\n\tthesis)", "messages": 5, "voices": 5, "first": "2009-09-22T20:34:48+00:00", "last": "2009-09-23T00:43:10+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<65D78AC2-9334-4BEA-A828-69ED3EEE20BA@phyast.nhn.ou.edu>", "from": { "name": "Kieran Mullen", "address": "kieran at nhn.ou.edu" }, "date": "2009-09-22T20:34:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Theological Science Fiction (Was: Silk for calde blog: Wolfe\n\tthesis)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " As a Catholic research physicist, theological science fiction has \nlong been an interest of mine. I have toyed with teaching a course \non the topic but am not sure if I am competent to do so (I have only \nan undergraduate major in theology and no graduate training in \nliterature or theology).\n\n I wouldn't quite go with the two choices you select for priests \nin SF (affirmation/debunking). When I think about it , I first \nthink about the \"author's cosmology\" first -\n\n\t(1) There is a transcendent being/reality.\n\t\t(a) It agrees to some degree with the character's religious views.\n\t\t(b) It contradicts the character's religious views.\n\t(2) There is no transcendent being.\n\t\t(a) The protagonist goes through some sort of spiritual crisis.\n\t\t(b) The protagonist struggles against those who mistakenly think \nthere is.\n\t(3) The author leaves it ambiguous.\n\n\n\nStories of the 1a variety are not always happy - James Blish's \"Black \nEaster,\" for example. One of my favorite type (3)'s is Blish's \"A \nCase of Conscience.\" An example of 1b is Phillip Farmer's \"Mask of \nChaos,\" in which the characters vie for influence on a sort of \nuniverse-consciousness that is only starting to come to sentience.\n\nAnyway, I have a lot of collections/novels in this vein. Has anyone \norganized a course around such ideas?\n\nKieran Mullen" } ] }, { "message_id": "<22E22987-BDD5-4DEE-BC1A-53904CB91977@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2009-09-22T21:07:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Theological Science Fiction (Was: Silk for calde blog:\n\tWolfe thesis)", "in_reply_to": "<65D78AC2-9334-4BEA-A828-69ED3EEE20BA@phyast.nhn.ou.edu>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sep 22, 2009, at 3:34 PM, Kieran Mullen wrote:\n\n\t(3) The author leaves it ambiguous.\n\n\n\nStories of the 1a variety are not always happy - James Blish's \n\"Black Easter,\" for example. One of my favorite type (3)'s is \nBlish's \"A Case of Conscience.\" An example of 1b is Phillip \nFarmer's \"Mask of Chaos,\" in which the characters vie for influence \non a sort of universe-consciousness that is only starting to come to \nsentience." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think _A Case of Conscience_ is at ALL ambiguous.\n\nI also think it started out promising and then went in precisely the \nleast interesting direction it could have gone. Not a fan. Russ \nAllbery has put it well here: http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/reviews/books/0-345-24480-X.html\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2009-09-22T21:41:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Theological Science Fiction (Was: Silk for calde blog:\n Wolfethesis)", "in_reply_to": "<65D78AC2-9334-4BEA-A828-69ED3EEE20BA@phyast.nhn.ou.edu>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Kieran Mullen wrote:\nConscience.\" An example of 1b is Phillip Farmer's \"Mask of Chaos,\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A nice nosology. Except PJF's _Night of Light_ is 1a and 1b, isn't it?\n\nThere *is* one stereotypic story, of course: aliens martyr missionary \nbecause they think this is the kindest thing to do. I was recently \nreading Lem's version of this in _The Star Diaries_.\n\nCheers, David Duffy." } ] }, { "message_id": "<87bpl2jzlm.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>", "from": { "name": "Russ Allbery", "address": "rra at stanford.edu" }, "date": "2009-09-23T00:04:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Theological Science Fiction", "in_reply_to": "<22E22987-BDD5-4DEE-BC1A-53904CB91977@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Adam Thornton writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't think _A Case of Conscience_ is at ALL ambiguous." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I also think it started out promising and then went in precisely the\nleast interesting direction it could have gone. Not a fan. Russ\nAllbery has put it well here:\nhttp://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/reviews/books/0-345-24480-X.html" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "To be fair, I should note that I read that book in complete isolation of\nthe surrounding context, and a recent NYRSF contains a cogent argument\nthat I should have read it in context with Dr. Mirablis, Black Easter, and\nThe Day After Judgement. Based on that essay (the author of which I don't\nrecall and don't have with me, alas), I'm at least open to the possibility\nI could have seen a lot more in it.\n\nIt remains the case, however, that I thought (and think) the writing is\nmechanically poor, which is a big impediment to enjoying it.\n\nI'll second the recommendation for Mary Doria Russell's _The Sparrow_,\nwhich I thought was an excellent treatment of the interaction between\nreligious faith and first contact with respectful treatment of the\ncapabilities of religion, although that one is definitely in the crisis of\nfaith category. (There's a sequel, _Children of God_, which I have not\nyet read.)" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Russ Allbery (rra at stanford.edu) " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Crossley", "address": "ishmael at drizzle.com" }, "date": "2009-09-23T00:43:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Theological Science Fiction", "in_reply_to": "<87bpl2jzlm.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/22/09 5:04 PM, \"Russ Allbery\" wrote:\nAdam Thornton writes:\nI'll second the recommendation for Mary Doria Russell's _The Sparrow_,\nwhich I thought was an excellent treatment of the interaction between\nreligious faith and first contact with respectful treatment of the\ncapabilities of religion, although that one is definitely in the crisis of\nfaith category. (There's a sequel, _Children of God_, which I have not\nyet read.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just wanted to throw out a mention of an anthology many of you might already\nknow, _A Cross of Centuries: Twenty-five Imaginative Tales about the\nChrist_, edited by Michael Bishop. Seemed relevant.\n\nJames" } ] } ] }