{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5505", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5505, "subject": "The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each other\n\tas kids and call them stink bombs.", "messages": 9, "voices": 3, "first": "2009-11-03T18:29:34+00:00", "last": "2009-11-04T15:53:32+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<51689E4643829846ACEE6B537CC1BB5202A84033@cleralawexc02.ralaw.com>", "from": { "name": "Herbert, Joseph", "address": "jherbert at ralaw.com" }, "date": "2009-11-03T18:29:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each other\n\tas kids and call them stink bombs.", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The spiny orange of Able's bow. Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick\nof osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew.\nMaclura pomifera" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Osage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic\nBullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous plant\nspecies, with male and female flowers on different\nplants. It is a small deciduous tree or\nlarge shrub , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)\ntall. The fruit , a multiple fruit \n, is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is\nfilled with a sticky white latex sap . In\nfall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor\nsimilar to that of oranges .[1] <> \nThe Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak\n in prairie states, which gives it one of its\ncolloquial names, \"hedge apple\".\nThe trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or \"bow-wood\", from early French\n settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs\nand bow-making by Native Americans\n .[3] <> Meriwether Lewis\nwas told that the people of the Osage Nation \n\"esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they\ntravel many hundred miles in quest of it.\" Many modern bowyers assert\nthe wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this\npurpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are\nalso known as \"bordarch\" trees, most likely originating from a\ncorruption of \"bois d'arc.\"\n\n\nAny federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment \nhereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1)\navoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or \n(2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or \nmatter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S. \nTreasury Regulations governing tax practice." } ] }, { "message_id": "<2210.72.171.0.142.1257277285.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2009-11-03T19:41:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each\n other as kids and call them stink bombs.", "in_reply_to": "<51689E4643829846ACEE6B537CC1BB5202A84033@cleralawexc02.ralaw.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "These plants with seperate male and female flowers are mostly ancient\ncultivers.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The spiny orange of Able's bow. Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick\nof osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew.\nMaclura pomifera\nFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\nOsage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic\nBullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous plant\nspecies, with male and female flowers on different\nplants. It is a small deciduous tree or\nlarge shrub , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)\ntall. The fruit , a multiple fruit \n, is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is\nfilled with a sticky white latex sap . In\nfall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor\nsimilar to that of oranges .[1] <>\nThe Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak\n in prairie states, which gives it one of its\ncolloquial names, \"hedge apple\".\nThe trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or \"bow-wood\", from early French\n settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs\nand bow-making by Native Americans\n .[3] <> Meriwether Lewis\nwas told that the people of the Osage Nation \n\"esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they\ntravel many hundred miles in quest of it.\" Many modern bowyers assert\nthe wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this\npurpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are\nalso known as \"bordarch\" trees, most likely originating from a\ncorruption of \"bois d'arc.\"\n\n\nAny federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment\nhereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1)\navoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or\n(2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or\nmatter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S.\nTreasury Regulations governing tax\npractice._______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<12342.72.171.0.142.1257277665.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2009-11-03T19:47:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each\n other as kids and call them stink bombs.", "in_reply_to": "<2210.72.171.0.142.1257277285.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Pardon, I meant seperate male and female plants, not seperate flowers on\nthe same stem.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "These plants with seperate male and female flowers are mostly ancient\ncultivers.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The spiny orange of Able's bow. Wolfe has a hand carved walking stick\nof osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew.\nMaclura pomifera\nFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\nOsage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know as the Drewedic\nBullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous plant\nspecies, with male and female flowers on different\nplants. It is a small deciduous tree or\nlarge shrub , typically growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)\ntall. The fruit , a multiple fruit \n, is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in diameter, and it is\nfilled with a sticky white latex sap . In\nfall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it has a faint odor\nsimilar to that of oranges .[1] <>\nThe Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row windbreak\n in prairie states, which gives it one of its\ncolloquial names, \"hedge apple\".\nThe trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or \"bow-wood\", from early French\n settlers who observed the wood being used for war clubs\nand bow-making by Native Americans\n .[3] <> Meriwether Lewis\nwas told that the people of the Osage Nation \n\"esteem the wood of this tree for the making of their bows, that they\ntravel many hundred miles in quest of it.\" Many modern bowyers assert\nthe wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to English Yew for this\npurpose, though this opinion is by no means unanimous. The trees are\nalso known as \"bordarch\" trees, most likely originating from a\ncorruption of \"bois d'arc.\"\n\n\nAny federal tax advice contained herein or in any attachment\nhereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to (1)\navoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or\n(2) support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or\nmatter. This legend has been affixed to comply with U.S.\nTreasury Regulations governing tax\npractice._______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<740322.64555.qm@web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-11-04T00:15:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each\n\tother as kids and call them stink bombs.", "in_reply_to": "<12342.72.171.0.142.1257277665.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Do you have any basis for that extremely strange claim about\ndioecious plants? Is there even a single example?\n\nJerry Friedman" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org wrote:\nFrom: brunians at brunians.org \nPardon, I meant seperate male and\nfemale plants, not seperate flowers on\nthe same stem. ." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "These plants with seperate male and female flowers are\nmostly ancient cultivers.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "The spiny orange of Able's bow. — Wolfe\nhas a hand carved walking stick\nof osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew.\nMaclura pomifera\nFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\nOsage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know\nas the Drewedic\nBullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous\n? plant\nspecies, with male and female flowers\n? on different\nplants. It is a small deciduous\n? tree ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "or\nlarge shrub , typically\ngrowing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "tall. The fruit , a multiple\nfruit \n, is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in\ndiameter, and it is\nfilled with a sticky white latex\n? sap . In\nfall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it\nhas a faint odor\nsimilar to that of oranges\n .[1] <>\nThe Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row\nwindbreak\n? in prairie states,\nwhich gives it one of its\ncolloquial names, \"hedge apple\".\nThe trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or\n\"bow-wood\", from early French\n? settlers who observed\nthe wood being used for war clubs\nand bow-making by Native Americans" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " .[3]\n<>? Meriwether Lewis\nwas told that the people of the Osage Nation\n\n\"esteem the wood of this tree for the making of\ntheir bows, that they\ntravel many hundred miles in quest of it.\" Many\nmodern bowyers assert\nthe wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to\nEnglish Yew for this\npurpose, though this opinion is by no means\nunanimous. The trees are\nalso known as \"bordarch\" trees, most likely\noriginating from a\ncorruption of \"bois d'arc.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any\nattachment\nhereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be\nused, to (1)\navoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue\nCode or\n(2) support the promotion or marketing of any\ntransaction or\nmatter. This legend has been affixed to\ncomply with U.S.\nTreasury Regulations governing tax" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "practice._______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1846.72.171.0.145.1257293832.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2009-11-04T00:17:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each\n other as kids and call them stink bombs.", "in_reply_to": "<740322.64555.qm@web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's not really a claim. I wouldn't call it a claim.\n\nI do have reasons why I say it, yes.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Do you have any basis for that extremely strange claim about\ndioecious plants? Is there even a single example?\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: brunians at brunians.org \nPardon, I meant seperate male and\nfemale plants, not seperate flowers on\nthe same stem. ." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "These plants with seperate male and female flowers are\nmostly ancient cultivers.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "The spiny orange of Able's bow. — Wolfe\nhas a hand carved walking stick\nof osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew.\nMaclura pomifera\nFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\nOsage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc even know\nas the Drewedic\nBullochus (Maclura pomifera) is dioeceous\n? plant\nspecies, with male and female flowers\n? on different\nplants. It is a small deciduous\n? tree ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "or\nlarge shrub , typically\ngrowing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "tall. The fruit , a multiple\nfruit \n, is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and 7-15 cm in\ndiameter, and it is\nfilled with a sticky white latex\n? sap . In\nfall, its color turns a bright yellow-green and it\nhas a faint odor\nsimilar to that of oranges\n .[1] <>\nThe Osage-orange is commonly used as a tree row\nwindbreak\n? in prairie states,\nwhich gives it one of its\ncolloquial names, \"hedge apple\".\nThe trees acquired the name bois d'arc, or\n\"bow-wood\", from early French\n? settlers who observed\nthe wood being used for war clubs\nand bow-making by Native Americans" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " .[3]\n<>? Meriwether Lewis\nwas told that the people of the Osage Nation\n\n\"esteem the wood of this tree for the making of\ntheir bows, that they\ntravel many hundred miles in quest of it.\" Many\nmodern bowyers assert\nthe wood of the Osage Orange is superior even to\nEnglish Yew for this\npurpose, though this opinion is by no means\nunanimous. The trees are\nalso known as \"bordarch\" trees, most likely\noriginating from a\ncorruption of \"bois d'arc.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Any federal tax advice contained herein or in any\nattachment\nhereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be\nused, to (1)\navoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue\nCode or\n(2) support the promotion or marketing of any\ntransaction or\nmatter. This legend has been affixed to\ncomply with U.S.\nTreasury Regulations governing tax" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "practice._______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<739721.29649.qm@web50702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-11-04T00:24:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each\n\tother as kids and call them stink bombs.", "in_reply_to": "<1846.72.171.0.145.1257293832.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Then would you mind elaborating on those reasons? An\nexample of such a plant would be helpful.\n\nI'll give an example of why I doubt it: all willows are\ndioecious, and very few have been cultivated.\n\nJerry Friedman" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org wrote:\nIt's not really a claim. I wouldn't\ncall it a claim.\n\nI do have reasons why I say it, yes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Do you have any basis for that extremely strange claim\nabout dioecious plants? Is there even a single\nexample?\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org\n\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "From: brunians at brunians.org\n\nPardon, I meant seperate male and\nfemale plants, not seperate flowers on\nthe same stem. ." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "These plants with seperate male and female\nflowers are\nmostly ancient cultivers.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "The spiny orange of Able's bow. ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Wolfe\nhas a hand carved walking stick\nof osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Maclura pomifera\nFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\nOsage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc\neven know\nas the Drewedic\nBullochus (Maclura pomifera) is\ndioeceous\n? plant\nspecies, with male and female flowers\n? on different\nplants. It is a small deciduous\n? tree\n?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "or\nlarge shrub ,\ntypically\ngrowing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "tall. The fruit , a\nmultiple\nfruit \n, is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and\n7-15 cm in\ndiameter, and it is\nfilled with a sticky white latex\n? sap . In\nfall, its color turns a bright\nyellow-green and it\nhas a faint odor\nsimilar to that of oranges\n .[1] <>\nThe Osage-orange is commonly used as a\ntree row\nwindbreak\n? in prairie\nstates,\nwhich gives it one of its\ncolloquial names, \"hedge apple\".\nThe trees acquired the name bois d'arc,\nor\n\"bow-wood\", from early French\n? settlers who\nobserved\nthe wood being used for war clubs\nand bow-making by Native Americans" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " .[3]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "<>? Meriwether Lewis\nwas told that the people of the Osage\nNation\n\n\"esteem the wood of this tree for the\nmaking of\ntheir bows, that they\ntravel many hundred miles in quest of\nit.\" Many\nmodern bowyers assert\nthe wood of the Osage Orange is superior\neven to\nEnglish Yew for this\npurpose, though this opinion is by no\nmeans\nunanimous. The trees are\nalso known as \"bordarch\" trees, most\nlikely\noriginating from a\ncorruption of \"bois d'arc.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Any federal tax advice contained herein\nor in any\nattachment\nhereto is not intended to be used, and\ncannot be\nused, to (1)\navoid penalties imposed under the\nInternal Revenue\nCode or\n(2) support the promotion or marketing of\nany\ntransaction or\nmatter. This legend has been affixed\nto\ncomply with U.S.\nTreasury Regulations governing tax" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "practice._______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<2663.72.171.0.145.1257295233.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2009-11-04T00:40:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each\n other as kids and call them stink bombs.", "in_reply_to": "<739721.29649.qm@web50702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I didn't know that. I am actually a very ignorant person.\n\nI would have to modify my statement in light of that knowledge. I have no\ndoubt that you are correct when you say this,\n\nSome plants that have male and female flowers on seperate stems seem to be\nancient cultivers. These plants tend to be useful for food, drugs, as\nmaterial for making tools etc. Good examples include cannabis and osage\norange.\n\nI have to say that while this makes sense to me, I don't expect it to make\nsense to everybody. I have some ideas about history and deep history that\nare seriously at variance with the versions generally accepted these days,\nthough (coincidentally or not) they are basically the same as Gene Wolfe's\nviews on the same subjects. I do not know whether he agrees with my\nopinion expressed above: I hope to ask him some time. I suspect that he\ndoes or would.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Then would you mind elaborating on those reasons? An\nexample of such a plant would be helpful.\n\nI'll give an example of why I doubt it: all willows are\ndioecious, and very few have been cultivated.\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "It's not really a claim. I wouldn't\ncall it a claim.\n\nI do have reasons why I say it, yes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Do you have any basis for that extremely strange claim\nabout dioecious plants? Is there even a single\nexample?\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org\n\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "From: brunians at brunians.org\n\nPardon, I meant seperate male and\nfemale plants, not seperate flowers on\nthe same stem. ." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "These plants with seperate male and female\nflowers are\nmostly ancient cultivers.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "The spiny orange of Able's bow. ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Wolfe\nhas a hand carved walking stick\nof osage orange - carved by Joe Mayhew." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Maclura pomifera\nFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\nOsage-orange, Horse-apple or Bois D'Arc\neven know\nas the Drewedic\nBullochus (Maclura pomifera) is\ndioeceous\n? plant\nspecies, with male and female flowers\n? on different\nplants. It is a small deciduous\n? tree\n?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "or\nlarge shrub ,\ntypically\ngrowing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "tall. The fruit , a\nmultiple\nfruit \n, is roughly spherical, but bumpy, and\n7-15 cm in\ndiameter, and it is\nfilled with a sticky white latex\n? sap . In\nfall, its color turns a bright\nyellow-green and it\nhas a faint odor\nsimilar to that of oranges\n .[1] <>\nThe Osage-orange is commonly used as a\ntree row\nwindbreak\n? in prairie\nstates,\nwhich gives it one of its\ncolloquial names, \"hedge apple\".\nThe trees acquired the name bois d'arc,\nor\n\"bow-wood\", from early French\n? settlers who\nobserved\nthe wood being used for war clubs\nand bow-making by Native Americans" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " .[3]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "<>? Meriwether Lewis\nwas told that the people of the Osage\nNation\n\n\"esteem the wood of this tree for the\nmaking of\ntheir bows, that they\ntravel many hundred miles in quest of\nit.\" Many\nmodern bowyers assert\nthe wood of the Osage Orange is superior\neven to\nEnglish Yew for this\npurpose, though this opinion is by no\nmeans\nunanimous. The trees are\nalso known as \"bordarch\" trees, most\nlikely\noriginating from a\ncorruption of \"bois d'arc.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Any federal tax advice contained herein\nor in any\nattachment\nhereto is not intended to be used, and\ncannot be\nused, to (1)\navoid penalties imposed under the\nInternal Revenue\nCode or\n(2) support the promotion or marketing of\nany\ntransaction or\nmatter. This legend has been affixed\nto\ncomply with U.S.\nTreasury Regulations governing tax" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "practice._______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<205951.95384.qm@web50705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2009-11-04T06:16:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each\n\tother as kids and call them stink bombs.", "in_reply_to": "<2663.72.171.0.145.1257295233.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can't argue with your new formulation, especially after\nyou gave the examples I requested. On the other hand,\nit's easy to think of ancient cultivated plants that have\nflowers with both male and female parts--legumes, most\ncereals, fruits of the rose family, cotton, and flax--and\nothers that have separate male and female flowers on the\nsame plant--squashes, the calabash, and for a Wolfean\nconnection, corn.\n\nOf course, if you ever learn Gene Wolfe's thoughts on\nthese subjects, I hope you'll share them on this list.\n\nJerry Friedman" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org wrote:\nI didn't know that. I am actually a very ignorant person.\n\nI would have to modify my statement in light of that\nknowledge. I have no\ndoubt that you are correct when you say this,\n\nSome plants that have male and female flowers on seperate\nstems seem to be\nancient cultivers. These plants tend to be useful for food,\ndrugs, as\nmaterial for making tools etc. Good examples include\ncannabis and osage orange.\n\nI have to say that while this makes sense to me, I don't\nexpect it to make\nsense to everybody. I have some ideas about history and\ndeep history that\nare seriously at variance with the versions generally\naccepted these days,\nthough (coincidentally or not) they are basically the same\nas Gene Wolfe's\nviews on the same subjects. I do not know whether he agrees\nwith my\nopinion expressed above: I hope to ask him some time. I\nsuspect that he\ndoes or would.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Then would you mind elaborating on those\nreasons? An\nexample of such a plant would be helpful.\n\nI'll give an example of why I doubt it: all willows\nare\ndioecious, and very few have been cultivated.\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org\n\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "It's not really a claim. I wouldn't\ncall it a claim.\n\nI do have reasons why I say it, yes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Do you have any basis for that extremely\nstrange claim\nabout dioecious plants? Is there even a single\nexample?\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org\n\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "From: brunians at brunians.org\n\nPardon, I meant seperate male and\nfemale plants, not seperate flowers on\nthe same stem. ." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "These plants with seperate male and\nfemale\nflowers are\nmostly ancient cultivers.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "The spiny orange of Able's\nbow. ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Wolfe\nhas a hand carved walking stick\nof osage orange - carved by Joe\nMayhew." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "Maclura pomifera\nFrom Wikipedia, the free\nencyclopedia\nOsage-orange, Horse-apple or\nBois D'Arc\neven know\nas the Drewedic\nBullochus (Maclura pomifera) is\ndioeceous\n? plant\nspecies, with male and female\nflowers\n? on different\nplants. It is a small deciduous\n? tree\n?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "or\nlarge shrub \n,\ntypically\ngrowing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "tall. The fruit\n , a\nmultiple\nfruit \n, is roughly spherical, but\nbumpy, and\n7-15 cm in\ndiameter, and it is\nfilled with a sticky white\nlatex\n? sap\n . In\nfall, its color turns a bright\nyellow-green and it\nhas a faint odor\nsimilar to that of oranges\n .[1]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "<>\nThe Osage-orange is commonly\nused as a\ntree row\nwindbreak\n? in\nprairie\nstates,\nwhich gives it one of its\ncolloquial names, \"hedge\napple\"." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "The trees acquired the name bois\nd'arc,\nor\n\"bow-wood\", from early French\n? settlers\nwho\nobserved\nthe wood being used for war clubs\nand bow-making by Native\nAmericans" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " .[3]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "<>? Meriwether Lewis\nwas told that the people of the\nOsage\nNation\n\n\"esteem the wood of this tree\nfor the\nmaking of\ntheir bows, that they\ntravel many hundred miles in\nquest of\nit.\" Many\nmodern bowyers assert\nthe wood of the Osage Orange is\nsuperior\neven to\nEnglish Yew for this\npurpose, though this opinion is\nby no\nmeans\nunanimous. The trees are\nalso known as \"bordarch\" trees,\nmost\nlikely\noriginating from a\ncorruption of \"bois d'arc.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "Any federal tax advice contained\nherein\nor in any\nattachment\nhereto is not intended to be\nused, and\ncannot be\nused, to (1)\navoid penalties imposed under\nthe\nInternal Revenue\nCode or\n(2) support the promotion or\nmarketing of\nany\ntransaction or\nmatter. This legend has been\naffixed\nto\ncomply with U.S.\nTreasury Regulations governing\ntax" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "practice._______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1341.67.142.130.48.1257350012.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2009-11-04T15:53:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each\n other as kids and call them stink bombs.", "in_reply_to": "<205951.95384.qm@web50705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sure, not all ancient cultivated plants are like this.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I can't argue with your new formulation, especially after\nyou gave the examples I requested. On the other hand,\nit's easy to think of ancient cultivated plants that have\nflowers with both male and female parts--legumes, most\ncereals, fruits of the rose family, cotton, and flax--and\nothers that have separate male and female flowers on the\nsame plant--squashes, the calabash, and for a Wolfean\nconnection, corn.\n\nOf course, if you ever learn Gene Wolfe's thoughts on\nthese subjects, I hope you'll share them on this list.\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I didn't know that. I am actually a very ignorant person.\n\nI would have to modify my statement in light of that\nknowledge. I have no\ndoubt that you are correct when you say this,\n\nSome plants that have male and female flowers on seperate\nstems seem to be\nancient cultivers. These plants tend to be useful for food,\ndrugs, as\nmaterial for making tools etc. Good examples include\ncannabis and osage orange.\n\nI have to say that while this makes sense to me, I don't\nexpect it to make\nsense to everybody. I have some ideas about history and\ndeep history that\nare seriously at variance with the versions generally\naccepted these days,\nthough (coincidentally or not) they are basically the same\nas Gene Wolfe's\nviews on the same subjects. I do not know whether he agrees\nwith my\nopinion expressed above: I hope to ask him some time. I\nsuspect that he\ndoes or would.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Then would you mind elaborating on those\nreasons? An\nexample of such a plant would be helpful.\n\nI'll give an example of why I doubt it: all willows\nare\ndioecious, and very few have been cultivated.\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org\n\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "It's not really a claim. I wouldn't\ncall it a claim.\n\nI do have reasons why I say it, yes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Do you have any basis for that extremely\nstrange claim\nabout dioecious plants? Is there even a single\nexample?\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n--- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org\n\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "From: brunians at brunians.org\n\nPardon, I meant seperate male and\nfemale plants, not seperate flowers on\nthe same stem. ." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "These plants with seperate male and\nfemale\nflowers are\nmostly ancient cultivers.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "The spiny orange of Able's\nbow. ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Wolfe\nhas a hand carved walking stick\nof osage orange - carved by Joe\nMayhew." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "Maclura pomifera\nFrom Wikipedia, the free\nencyclopedia\nOsage-orange, Horse-apple or\nBois D'Arc\neven know\nas the Drewedic\nBullochus (Maclura pomifera) is\ndioeceous\n? plant\nspecies, with male and female\nflowers\n? on different\nplants. It is a small deciduous\n? tree\n?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "or\nlarge shrub \n,\ntypically\ngrowing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "tall. The fruit\n , a\nmultiple\nfruit \n, is roughly spherical, but\nbumpy, and\n7-15 cm in\ndiameter, and it is\nfilled with a sticky white\nlatex\n? sap\n . In\nfall, its color turns a bright\nyellow-green and it\nhas a faint odor\nsimilar to that of oranges\n .[1]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "<>\nThe Osage-orange is commonly\nused as a\ntree row\nwindbreak\n? in\nprairie\nstates,\nwhich gives it one of its\ncolloquial names, \"hedge\napple\"." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "The trees acquired the name bois\nd'arc,\nor\n\"bow-wood\", from early French\n? settlers\nwho\nobserved\nthe wood being used for war clubs\nand bow-making by Native\nAmericans" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " .[3]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "<>? Meriwether Lewis\nwas told that the people of the\nOsage\nNation\n\n\"esteem the wood of this tree\nfor the\nmaking of\ntheir bows, that they\ntravel many hundred miles in\nquest of\nit.\" Many\nmodern bowyers assert\nthe wood of the Osage Orange is\nsuperior\neven to\nEnglish Yew for this\npurpose, though this opinion is\nby no\nmeans\nunanimous. The trees are\nalso known as \"bordarch\" trees,\nmost\nlikely\noriginating from a\ncorruption of \"bois d'arc.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "Any federal tax advice contained\nherein\nor in any\nattachment\nhereto is not intended to be\nused, and\ncannot be\nused, to (1)\navoid penalties imposed under\nthe\nInternal Revenue\nCode or\n(2) support the promotion or\nmarketing of\nany\ntransaction or\nmatter. This legend has been\naffixed\nto\ncomply with U.S.\nTreasury Regulations governing\ntax" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "practice._______________________________________________" } ] } ] }