{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5507", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5507, "subject": "Wizard-Knight sucks, or,\n\tis there any scholarly research on it?", "messages": 6, "voices": 5, "first": "2009-11-09T23:59:03+00:00", "last": "2009-11-10T05:33:38+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-11-09T23:59:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wizard-Knight sucks, or,\n\tis there any scholarly research on it?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091108215604AAFwQWS\n\nI don't know whether to be more chagrined or amused at him. (I thought\nof resurrecting my Yahoo account and telling him he'd've to pay for\nthe only scholarly work or spend several days reading through\nurth.net.) I didn't think _The Knight_ was that bad, although I didn't\nenjoy it nearly as much as _New Sun_ or _Cerberus_." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1CCC3E14-B024-43E4-9DCB-CFE8C64B70D3@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-11-10T00:26:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wizard-Knight sucks, or,\n\tis there any scholarly research on it?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Link him here! Fresh meat!\n\nI found TWK heavy handed in it's symbolism and an attempt to recapture \nthe heavily stylized prose of BOTNS without the organic nature of \nSeverian's voice. Maybe Abel really is dumb and illiterate, but it was \nsometimes difficult to follow the narrative because Abel is a bad \nstoryteller. I think the story would've been better told in the Whorl \nstyle\n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote:\nhttp://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091108215604AAFwQWS\n\nI don't know whether to be more chagrined or amused at him. (I thought\nof resurrecting my Yahoo account and telling him he'd've to pay for\nthe only scholarly work or spend several days reading through\nurth.net.) I didn't think _The Knight_ was that bad, although I didn't\nenjoy it nearly as much as _New Sun_ or _Cerberus_.\n\n-- \ngwern\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<0BBF4DDCD1B34379934AD0C15DE19953@eMachinePC>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-11-10T02:18:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wizard-Knight sucks, or,\n\tis there any scholarly research on it?", "in_reply_to": "<1CCC3E14-B024-43E4-9DCB-CFE8C64B70D3@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Maybe Abel really is dumb and illiterate, but it was sometimes difficult \nto follow the narrative because Abel is a bad storyteller." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, honestly, the part about being a bad story-teller is true of Severian, \nas well (to the extent that it IS true). The Book of the New Sun was the \nfirst Wolfe story I'd read. I told the guy who recommended it that I thought \nWolfe was a great creator of worlds but only a so-so writer. Then I read The \nFifth Head of Cerberus and decided that --based on the two novels-- he was \nthe best science fiction writer I'd ever read. But the \"weaknesses\" in the \nstory-telling in TWK (if they are weaknesses) are the same as those in \nTBotNS.\n\nJ. " } ] }, { "message_id": "<7317.67.142.130.47.1257821012.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2009-11-10T02:43:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wizard-Knight sucks, or,\n is there any scholarly research on it?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I thought Wizard-Knight was excellent.\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091108215604AAFwQWS\n\nI don't know whether to be more chagrined or amused at him. (I thought\nof resurrecting my Yahoo account and telling him he'd've to pay for\nthe only scholarly work or spend several days reading through\nurth.net.) I didn't think _The Knight_ was that bad, although I didn't\nenjoy it nearly as much as _New Sun_ or _Cerberus_.\n\n--\ngwern\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2009-11-10T03:40:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wizard-Knight sucks, or,\n is there any scholarly research on it?", "in_reply_to": "<0BBF4DDCD1B34379934AD0C15DE19953@eMachinePC>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, James Wynn wrote:\nMaybe Abel really is dumb and illiterate, but it was sometimes difficult \nto follow the narrative because Abel is a bad storyteller." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, honestly, the part about being a bad story-teller is true of Severian, \nas well (to the extent that it IS true)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And what about guy in _Peace_ -- he's all over the place ;)\n\nDavid Duffy" } ] }, { "message_id": "<272706220911092133g7b0b8f0embf4ae448c9f4b735@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2009-11-10T05:33:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wizard-Knight sucks, or,\n\tis there any scholarly research \ton it?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "See, I found Severian's voice and prose engaging. He's a liar\n(maybe), and certainly not above shading the story to paint him in a\nbetter light than the facts might justify, but I thoroughly enjoyed\nreading what he wrote. I got the sense that underneath, he's not\nreally a terrible guy.\n\nUnlike Abel. Abel is a brute and a bully. Didn't identify with him\nat all. I still liked the book, even if the \"subvert heathen beliefs\nto Christianity!\" theme was a little heavy-handed versus some of\nWolfe's other books. Like I said, it's not Wolfe's most subtle work,\nbut it's a damn sight better than most books out there.\n\n-LH" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:40 PM, David Duffy wrote:\nOn Mon, 9 Nov 2009, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Maybe Abel really is dumb and illiterate, but it was ?sometimes difficult\nto follow the narrative because Abel is a bad ?storyteller." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, honestly, the part about being a bad story-teller is true of\nSeverian, as well (to the extent that it IS true)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And what about guy in _Peace_ -- he's all over the place ;)\n\nDavid Duffy\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }