Subject: (urth) Wizard-Knight sucks, or, is there any scholarly research on it?

From: Gwern Branwen <gwern0 at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:59:03 +0000

I don't know whether to be more chagrined or amused at him. (I thought
of resurrecting my Yahoo account and telling him he'd've to pay for
the only scholarly work or spend several days reading through
urth.net.) I didn't think _The Knight_ was that bad, although I didn't
enjoy it nearly as much as _New Sun_ or _Cerberus_.

-- 
gwern

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From: Lane Haygood <lhaygood at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:26:36 +0000

Link him here! Fresh meat!

I found TWK heavy handed in it's symbolism and an attempt to recapture  
the heavily stylized prose of BOTNS without the organic nature of  
Severian's voice. Maybe Abel really is dumb and illiterate, but it was  
sometimes difficult to follow the narrative because Abel is a bad  
storyteller. I think the story would've been better told in the Whorl  
style

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Gwern Branwen <gwern0 at gmail.com> wrote:

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From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:18:59 +0000

> Maybe Abel really is dumb and illiterate, but it was  sometimes difficult 
> to follow the narrative because Abel is a bad  storyteller.

Well, honestly, the part about being a bad story-teller is true of Severian, 
as well (to the extent that it IS true). The Book of the New Sun was the 
first Wolfe story I'd read. I told the guy who recommended it that I thought 
Wolfe was a great creator of worlds but only a so-so writer. Then I read The 
Fifth Head of Cerberus and decided that --based on the two novels-- he was 
the best science fiction writer I'd ever read. But the "weaknesses" in the 
story-telling in TWK (if they are weaknesses) are the same as those in 
TBotNS.

J.

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:43:32 +0000

I thought Wizard-Knight was excellent.

.

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From: David Duffy <david.duffy at qimr.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:40:49 +0000

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, James Wynn wrote:

> as well (to the extent that it IS true).

And what about guy in _Peace_ -- he's all over the place ;)

David Duffy

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From: Lane Haygood <lhaygood at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:33:38 +0000

See, I found Severian's voice and prose engaging.  He's a liar
(maybe), and certainly not above shading the story to paint him in a
better light than the facts might justify, but I thoroughly enjoyed
reading what he wrote.  I got the sense that underneath, he's not
really a terrible guy.

Unlike Abel.  Abel is a brute and a bully.  Didn't identify with him
at all.  I still liked the book, even if the "subvert heathen beliefs
to Christianity!" theme was a little heavy-handed versus some of
Wolfe's other books.  Like I said, it's not Wolfe's most subtle work,
but it's a damn sight better than most books out there.

-LH

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:40 PM, David Duffy <David.Duffy at qimr.edu.au> wrote:
>>> Maybe Abel really is dumb and illiterate, but it was ?sometimes difficult
>>> to follow the narrative because Abel is a bad ?storyteller.
>>
>> Well, honestly, the part about being a bad story-teller is true of
>> Severian, as well (to the extent that it IS true).
>