{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5538",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 5538,
    "subject": "Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... ?",
    "messages": 6,
    "voices": 3,
    "first": "2010-01-18T00:48:46+00:00",
    "last": "2010-01-29T23:22:18+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<4B53AFEE.3080204@verizon.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Stockhoff",
        "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net"
      },
      "date": "2010-01-18T00:48:46+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... ?",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Severian's friend the Green Man always seemed quite plausible to me. I \nhadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently a sea slug has \nincorporate algae genes into its genome and produces and uses \nchlorophyll inside its body:\n\nhttp://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<92f04c0926e3c47a86eabf9d054e8154.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jeff Wilson",
        "address": "jwilson at io.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-01-18T02:44:49+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... ?",
      "in_reply_to": "<4B53AFEE.3080204@verizon.net>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Severian's friend the Green Man always seemed quite plausible to me. I\nhadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently a sea slug has\nincorporate algae genes into its genome and produces and uses\nchlorophyll inside its body:\n\nhttp://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "There's still a question of him being able to intercept enough sunlight to\nbe more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette in Earthly conditions\nintercepts less than 100 calories worth of sunlight a day. From the Green\nMan's sunny smile, his people apparently still have humanlike teeth, so\npresumably they can eat a variety of food to make up the deficit, but I'm\nnot sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is worth the hassle.\n\nIt might be that the chlorophyll isn't strictly for food, but for sensory\npurposes; can anyone think of an occasion when the Green Man would need to\nbe able to feel a shadow falling on him, or would have to distinguish\nbetween bright lights of different character?"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<866004.91683.qm@web50704.mail.re2.yahoo.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jerry Friedman",
        "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-01-18T04:14:16+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... ?",
      "in_reply_to": "<92f04c0926e3c47a86eabf9d054e8154.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote:\nSeverian's friend the Green Man\nalways seemed quite plausible to me. I\nhadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently a sea\nslug has\nincorporate algae genes into its genome and produces\nand uses\nchlorophyll inside its body:\n\nhttp://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "That's pretty amazing, if it's confirmed."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "There's still a question of him being able to intercept\nenough sunlight to\nbe more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette in\nEarthly conditions\nintercepts less than 100 calories worth of sunlight a day."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Is that with perfect efficiency?  Gosh, are you seriously\ntelling me to do the calculation?  Half a square meter in\nsunbathing position, 1 kilowatt, 8 hours, that's 14,400\nkJ or about 3400 big calories.  You're assuming something\nlike present photosynthetic efficiency."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "From the Green\nMan's sunny smile, his people apparently still have\nhumanlike teeth, so\npresumably they can eat a variety of food to make up the\ndeficit, but I'm\nnot sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is worth the\nhassle."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "The sun could be brighter in his time than ours, and genetic\nengineering could have improved the efficiency of\nphotosynthesis and that of metabolism."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "It might be that the chlorophyll isn't strictly for food,\nbut for sensory\npurposes; can anyone think of an occasion when the Green\nMan would need to\nbe able to feel a shadow falling on him, or would have to\ndistinguish\nbetween bright lights of different character?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I can't  We do fine with vision.  Though human color\nvision is rather klugy, I gather, and those same\ngenetic engineers could probably improve it without\nany cost by making it more like birds'.\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n\n      "
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<4B61401F.7020307@io.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jeff Wilson",
        "address": "jwilson at io.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-01-28T07:43:27+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... ?",
      "in_reply_to": "<866004.91683.qm@web50704.mail.re2.yahoo.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 1/17/2010 10:14 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:\n--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Jeff Wilson<jwilson at io.com>  wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "Severian's friend the Green Man\nalways seemed quite plausible to me. I\nhadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently a sea\nslug has\nincorporate algae genes into its genome and produces\nand uses\nchlorophyll inside its body:\n\nhttp://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "That's pretty amazing, if it's confirmed."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Did you see the thing last year? A predator microbe that becomes \nphotosynthetic if it eats this other microbe, then fissions into the \noriginal separate microbes again?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "There's still a question of him being able to intercept\nenough sunlight to\nbe more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette in\nEarthly conditions\nintercepts less than 100 calories worth of sunlight a day."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Is that with perfect efficiency?  Gosh, are you seriously\ntelling me to do the calculation?  Half a square meter in\nsunbathing position, 1 kilowatt, 8 hours, that's 14,400\nkJ or about 3400 big calories.  You're assuming something\nlike present photosynthetic efficiency."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "He said it was pond scum, so I presume it was something vaguely like \npond scum."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": " From the Green\nMan's sunny smile, his people apparently still have\nhumanlike teeth, so\npresumably they can eat a variety of food to make up the\ndeficit, but I'm\nnot sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is worth the\nhassle."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "The sun could be brighter in his time than ours, and genetic\nengineering could have improved the efficiency of\nphotosynthesis and that of metabolism."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "maybe, but 30x as efficient?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<378986.85096.qm@web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jerry Friedman",
        "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-01-29T01:52:02+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... ?",
      "in_reply_to": "<4B61401F.7020307@io.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "--- On Thu, 1/28/10, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote:\nOn 1/17/2010 10:14 PM, Jerry Friedman\nwrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Jeff Wilson<jwilson at io.com>?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 4,
          "text": "Severian's friend the Green Man\nalways seemed quite plausible to me. I\nhadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently\na sea slug has\nincorporate algae genes into its genome and\nproduces and uses\nchlorophyll inside its body:\n\nhttp://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "That's pretty amazing, if it's confirmed."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Did you see the thing last year? A predator microbe that\nbecomes \nphotosynthetic if it eats this other microbe, then fissions\ninto the original separate microbes again?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Missed that one."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "There's still a question of him being able to\nintercept enough sunlight to\nbe more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette\nin Earthly conditions\nintercepts less than 100 calories worth of\nsunlight a day."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Is that with perfect efficiency? Gosh, are you\nseriously\ntelling me to do the calculation? Half a square\nmeter in\nsunbathing position, 1 kilowatt, 8 hours, that's\n14,400\nkJ or about 3400 big calories. You're assuming\nsomething\nlike present photosynthetic efficiency."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "He said it was pond scum, so I presume it was something\nvaguely like pond scum."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Sure.  I just wanted to know what you were presuming."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "? From the Green\nMan's sunny smile, his people apparently still\nhave humanlike teeth, so\npresumably they can eat a variety of food to make\nup the deficit, but I'm\nnot sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is\nworth the hassle."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "The sun could be brighter in his time than ours, and\ngenetic\nengineering could have improved the efficiency of\nphotosynthesis and that of metabolism."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "maybe, but 30x as efficient?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "As you said, he probably still needs to eat.  If between\nmore sunlight and more efficient photosynthesis and\nmetabolism he gets ten times as much as we would, it\nwould reduce his need for food by about 1/3, which seems\nworth some hassle.\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n\n      "
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<4B636DAA.9080707@verizon.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Stockhoff",
        "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net"
      },
      "date": "2010-01-29T23:22:18+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... ?",
      "in_reply_to": "<378986.85096.qm@web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Furthermore, if those calculations are based on American calorie intake, you could cut the Green Man's food energy needs by up to 50% just by changing that assumption to a level more typical of the rest of humanity."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "------------------------------\n\nMessage: 4\nDate: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:52:02 -0800 (PST)\nFrom: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com>\nTo: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>\nSubject: Re: (urth) Today, a Sea Slug. Tomorrow, ... —\nMessage-ID: <378986.85096.qm at web50706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1\n\n--- On Thu, 1/28/10, Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com> wrote:\n\nOn 1/17/2010 10:14 PM, Jerry Friedman\nwrote:\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Jeff Wilson<jwilson at io.com>?\n    "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "wrote:\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 4,
          "text": "Severian's friend the Green Man\n        "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "always seemed quite plausible to me. I\n      "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 4,
          "text": "hadn't realized just how plausible. Apparently\n        "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "a sea slug has\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 4,
          "text": "incorporate algae genes into its genome and\n        "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "produces and uses\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 4,
          "text": "chlorophyll inside its body:\n\nhttp://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/53496/title/Sea_slug_steals_genes_for_greens,_makes_chlorophyll_like_a_plan\n        "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "That's pretty amazing, if it's confirmed.\n    "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Did you see the thing last year? A predator microbe that\nbecomes \nphotosynthetic if it eats this other microbe, then fissions\ninto the original separate microbes again?\n  \n\nMissed that one."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "There's still a question of him being able to\n      "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "intercept enough sunlight to\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "be more active than a slug. A man-sized silhouette\n      "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "in Earthly conditions\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "intercepts less than 100 calories worth of\n      "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "sunlight a day.\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Is that with perfect efficiency? Gosh, are you\n    "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "seriously\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "telling me to do the calculation? Half a square\n    "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "meter in\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "sunbathing position, 1 kilowatt, 8 hours, that's\n    "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "14,400\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "kJ or about 3400 big calories. You're assuming\n    "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "something\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "like present photosynthetic efficiency.\n    "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "He said it was pond scum, so I presume it was something\nvaguely like pond scum.\n  \n\nSure.  I just wanted to know what you were presuming."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "? From the Green\nMan's sunny smile, his people apparently still\n      "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "have humanlike teeth, so\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "presumably they can eat a variety of food to make\n      "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "up the deficit, but I'm\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 3,
          "text": "not sure if reducing your food needs by 1/30 is\n      "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "worth the hassle.\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "The sun could be brighter in his time than ours, and\n    "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "genetic\n  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "engineering could have improved the efficiency of\nphotosynthesis and that of metabolism.\n    "
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "maybe, but 30x as efficient?\n  \n\nAs you said, he probably still needs to eat.  If between\nmore sunlight and more efficient photosynthesis and\nmetabolism he gets ten times as much as we would, it\nwould reduce his need for food by about 1/3, which seems\nworth some hassle.\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n\n      \n\n\n------------------------------"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}