{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5571", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5571, "subject": "TSH: I liked it!", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2010-03-24T19:02:00+00:00", "last": "2010-03-27T00:59:14+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Mullen", "address": "kieran at nhn.ou.edu" }, "date": "2010-03-24T19:02:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TSH: I liked it!", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " I finished \"The Sorcerer's House\" last week and I really enjoyed \nit. First, it has an engaging story that is more transparent than, \noh \"Peace\" or \"The Fifth Head of Cerberus\" (it's not transparent of \ncourse, just *more* transparent). I enjoyed it as a story, even \nwithout all the puzzles. Second, the story was one where Wolfe's \nspare style of \"show, don't tell\" really shines. The novel is based \non a set of letters, and the recorded dialog is pretty brief and there \nare no long prose descriptions, as one might expect in handwritten \nletters. It's a book I will enjoy re-reading, trying to suss out who \nis really who and when.\n\n\nSPOILER\n\n\n\n\n\n\nSPOILER\n\n\n\n\n\nSPOILER\n\n\n\n The picture of Ted that Doris has looks like the man who stopped \nIuean from beating up Baxter (p.134). That man is later identified \nas the Black, the father of Iuean and Emlyn. However, Doris does not \nseem to know about faerie. (On occasion I suspected her of knowing \nmore than she ever let on.) I think that Ted and Black are also \ntwins, one magical and the other not (as Black himself states is often \nthe case). \"He\" is also seen talking to Lupine and vanishing. I \ndon't know if this is Ted or Black. What is the wet thing left behind \non Doris's bed with the initials TAG?\n\n I need to re-read the book, for many reasons. One is, how are we \nto think of Baxter? Is Baxter really \"an evil guest?\" He needles \nhis brother cruelly, write seductive letters to his brother's wife, \nand undoubtedly kills him. He is a convicted fraud. How good is he \nreally? I admit I sometimes like my protagonists to be a bit more \nclear cut - either heroes or anti-heroes. I am not sure what we are \nsupposed to think of Baxter. He does confess his criminal behavior \nto a number of women. However, a real fraud doesn't hide such \nthings. He tells you about them in such detail that it makes him even \nmore believable. OTOH, I don't fault Baxter as much if he keeps \noffering a genuine olive branch to George and the latter insists on a \nduel to the death.\n\n The only clanging false note for me was the rape/assault of Cathy \nRuth. Not only did it seem gratuitous, it would have set off a whole \nslew of consequences that involve the police, hospitals, \ninvestigations, etc. These consequences are never played out.\n\n The quest for wisdom/George where Winkle leads Baxter into faerie \nand a divine voice speaks to Baxter also seems a bit out of place. \nI think I don't understand it well enough, yet.\n\n I am also intrigued by the \"unfinished numen.\" Emlyn points out \nthat Baxter is in big trouble due to the incorrectly terminated \n\"spell.\" How is that resolved? Is it simply that he gets more \nmoney and more fish? Or does it go deeper than that?\n\n I was trying to figure out how to explain to someone how \ndifferent Wolfean fantasy is compared to any other writer. I tried \nto imagine how Winkle would be handled, say, by Terry Brooks. I could \nsee the facefox pull the whole focus of the book as \"cewl.\" I don't \nknow how to put it into words the difference, how Wolfe lets faerie be \n\"other\" without it just becoming a set of DnD character stats.\n\n Anyway, I liked this much more that \"An Evil Guest.\" In AEG the \nlaconic storytelling was frustrating to me and unnatural to the \nstoryline. AEG also jumped about in genres and I *still* don't \nunderstand what really happened. The ambiguities in TSH makes \nmore sense as the authors of the various letters have much to hide, \nand many of them are resolved (to my satisfaction) in the story itself.\n\nKieran Mullen" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-03-24T19:50:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TSH: I liked it!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Kieran Mullen wrote:\n“The picture of Ted that Doris has looks like the man who stopped Iuean from\nbeating up Baxter (p.134). — That man is later identified as the Black, the\nfather of Iuean and Emlyn. ?However, Doris does not seem to know about\nfaerie. ?(On occasion I suspected her of knowing more than she ever let on.)\n? ?I think that Ted and Black are also twins, one magical and the other not\n(as Black himself states is often the case). — \"He\" is also seen talking to\nLupine and vanishing. — I don't know if this is Ted or Black. ?What is the\nwet thing left behind on Doris's bed with the initials TAG”" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've not figured that one out either. It's not a body part, and it's\napparently square or rectangular, and is likely made out of wood or\nmetal, since paper wouldn't stand being wet and there aren't many\nusable materials which could have initials stamped on it. I thought\nthat it might be the triannulus, but the shape isn't right. And the\ninitials are a mystery: the T might be for Ted, and the G for Griffin,\nbut A? The character index lists exactly one character who has any\nname starting with 'A': Ambrosius. As in, the supposed usurper of\nGoldwurm.\n\nPerhaps Ted pulled a Bax, if you will: shacking up with a mundane wife\nfor a while, and then vamoosing for faerie when he leveled up. At\nleast, this is the best explanation of Ted I have so far, though it\nstill doesn't explain what the object is or why he/his ghost visited\nDoris." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "“I am also intrigued by the \"unfinished numen.\" ? ?Emlyn points out that\nBaxter is in big trouble due to the incorrectly terminated \"spell.\" ? ?How\nis that resolved” “Is it simply that he gets more money and more fish” “Or\ndoes it go deeper than that”" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As I've written earlier, the numen is really frustrating. It's like\nAEG's time travel or clones - an extremely powerful game-breaking\nmechanic which apparently is used only for trivial things. The entire\nnovel could be controlled by numen. Or nothing but some fish and the\nwerewolf." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Thomas Bitterman", "address": "tom at bitterman.net" }, "date": "2010-03-27T00:59:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TSH: I liked it!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote:\nOn Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Kieran Mullen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " The picture of Ted that Doris has looks like the man who stopped Iuean\nfrom\nbeating up Baxter (p.134). That man is later identified as the Black,\nthe\nfather of Iuean and Emlyn. However, Doris does not seem to know about\nfaerie. (On occasion I suspected her of knowing more than she ever let\non.)\n I think that Ted and Black are also twins, one magical and the other\nnot\n(as Black himself states is often the case). \"He\" is also seen talking\nto\nLupine and vanishing. I don't know if this is Ted or Black. What is\nthe\nwet thing left behind on Doris's bed with the initials TAG?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I've not figured that one out either. It's not a body part, and it's\napparently square or rectangular, and is likely made out of wood or\nmetal, since paper wouldn't stand being wet and there aren't many\nusable materials which could have initials stamped on it. I thought\nthat it might be the triannulus, but the shape isn't right." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's a monogrammed handkerchief. She mentions (in the next paragraph but\none) that she was sure Ted was crying. That's why it was wet." } ] } ] }