{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5577", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5577, "subject": "Sorcerer's House: First Impressions *spoilage*", "messages": 13, "voices": 10, "first": "2010-04-05T15:36:08+00:00", "last": "2010-04-12T07:43:35+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-04-05T15:36:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Sorcerer's House: First Impressions *spoilage*", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm writing this up before reading any of the stuff that's come over\nthe list, which I've kept isolated in a folder of its own.\n\nI finished TSH yesterday and it seemed to me remarkably free of\n\"Huh?\"s. By which I mean, by the end of the book I think Wolfe cleared\nup most if not all of the mysteries pretty, uh, clearly. By the time\nwe find out who Bax's birth-parents are, the rest seems pretty\nstraighforward.\n\nStraighforward for Wolfe, that is..." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "<111366.25796.qm@web37605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2010-04-05T15:43:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Sorcerer's House: First Impressions *spoilage*", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "John Clute's review just appeared in NYRSF (alongside yours of _The Long Man_, so this is probably not news to you in particular), and his reaction was remarkably similar!\n\nSince I just read it a few minutes ago, I have it at hand. His summary: \"...I believe in Baxter Dunn... Because I wanted a Wolfe novel to read in a single sitting without escaping us utterly, and that by virtue of that single sitting love might be conveyed: Wolfe's love of telling, the love of the main characters of _House_ for each other, the love felt by the reader for a book whose author may, for once in his life, have told a tall tale around the campfire. I believed every word of it.\"\n\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Mon, April 5, 2010 10:36:08 AM\nSubject: (urth) Sorcerer's House: First Impressions *spoilage*\n\nI'm writing this up before reading any of the stuff that's come over\nthe list, which I've kept isolated in a folder of its own.\n\nI finished TSH yesterday and it seemed to me remarkably free of\n\"Huh?\"s. By which I mean, by the end of the book I think Wolfe cleared\nup most if not all of the mysteries pretty, uh, clearly. By the time\nwe find out who Bax's birth-parents are, the rest seems pretty\nstraighforward.\n\nStraighforward for Wolfe, that is..." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-04-05T17:48:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Sorcerer's House: First Impressions *spoilage*", "in_reply_to": "<111366.25796.qm@web37605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Craig Brewer wrote:\nJohn Clute's review just appeared in NYRSF (alongside yours of _The Long Man_, so this is probably not news to you in particular), and his reaction was remarkably similar!\n\nSince I just read it a few minutes ago, I have it at hand. His summary: \"...I believe in Baxter Dunn... Because I wanted a Wolfe novel to read in a single sitting without escaping us utterly, and that by virtue of that single sitting love might be conveyed: Wolfe's love of telling, the love of the main characters of _House_ for each other, the love felt by the reader for a book whose author may, for once in his life, have told a tall tale around the campfire. I believed every word of it.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh noes - he believed the last letter too?\n\n/me shakes head at Clute\n\nWhat happened, man? You used to be cool." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jonathan Goodwin", "address": "joncgoodwin at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-04-05T18:24:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Sorcerer's House: First Impressions *spoilage*", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I haven't read the review, but \"love of the main characters for each\nother\" strikes me as irony." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote:\nOn Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Craig Brewer wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "John Clute's review just appeared in NYRSF (alongside yours of _The Long Man_, so this is probably not news to you in particular), and his reaction was remarkably similar!\n\nSince I just read it a few minutes ago, I have it at hand. His summary: \"...I believe in Baxter Dunn... Because I wanted a Wolfe novel to read in a single sitting without escaping us utterly, and that by virtue of that single sitting love might be conveyed: Wolfe's love of telling, the love of the main characters of _House_ for each other, the love felt by the reader for a book whose author may, for once in his life, have told a tall tale around the campfire. I believed every word of it.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Oh noes - he believed the last letter too?\n\n/me shakes head at Clute\n\nWhat happened, man? You used to be cool.\n\n--\ngwern\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Thornton", "address": "oblate777 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-04-09T00:38:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Neil Gaiman on Wolfe and Sorcerer's House", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi folks,\n\nI am a member of Goodreads, a site where readers and authors can share their experiences with books. Each member can post a rating and a small review of books that they have read/are reading. \n\nNeil Gaiman is also a member and he posted a brief review of Sorcerer's House at: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6845909-the-sorcerer-s-house\n\nI will quote the most interesting part of the review here:\n\n\"As a side note, I have a mad theory that you can always find a Wolf in a Gene Wolfe book, and it will always be the key, or a key, to the text. This book does nothing to disprove my theory.\" \n\nRob" } ] }, { "message_id": "<13631.67.142.130.29.1270774928.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-04-09T01:02:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Neil Gaiman on Wolfe and Sorcerer's House", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's an excellent book.\n\nI am going to have to reread it before I form any opinions.\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4BBF5C2A.9010908@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-04-09T16:56:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Neil Gaiman on Wolfe and Sorcerer's House", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 4/8/2010 7:38 PM, Robert Thornton wrote:\nI will quote the most interesting part of the review here:\n\n\"As a side note, I have a mad theory that you can always find a Wolf in a Gene Wolfe book, and it will always be the key, or a key, to the text. This book does nothing to disprove my theory.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Some times it's madder than others: he was on the nose with all the \nclues that the 5HC narrator was \"Gene Wolfe\", but also nominated the \nalzabo as a sort of gene-seeking wolf." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-04-09T19:20:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Neil Gaiman on Wolfe and Sorcerer's House", "in_reply_to": "<4BBF5C2A.9010908@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Some times it's madder than others: he was on the nose with all the clues\nthat the 5HC narrator was \"Gene Wolfe\", but also nominated the alzabo as a\nsort of gene-seeking wolf." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I thought it was Robert Borski who nailed this one first.\n\nJ." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-04-09T21:52:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Neil Gaiman on Wolfe and Sorcerer's House", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Some times it's madder than others: he was on the nose with all the\nclues\nthat the 5HC narrator was \"Gene Wolfe\", but also nominated the alzabo as\na\nsort of gene-seeking wolf." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I thought it was Robert Borski who nailed this one first." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Could be; it was maybe about 1996 when Neil and I discussed his theory\nthat the other GEnie network Wolfe topic denizens like Mantiss and Joe\nMayhew seemed to already know about. CAVE CANEM seems to imply that\nLEXICON URTHUS (1994) helped Borski figure it out, so it might be a close\nthing." } ] }, { "message_id": "<501595.92893.qm@smtp823.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar / UKG", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2010-04-09T22:46:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Neil Gaiman on Wolfe and Sorcerer's House", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "At 22:52 09/04/2010, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nSome times it's madder than others: he was on the nose with all the\nclues\nthat the 5HC narrator was \"Gene Wolfe\", but also nominated the alzabo as\na\nsort of gene-seeking wolf." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I thought it was Robert Borski who nailed this one first." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Could be; it was maybe about 1996 when Neil and I discussed his theory\nthat the other GEnie network Wolfe topic denizens like Mantiss and Joe\nMayhew seemed to already know about. CAVE CANEM seems to imply that\nLEXICON URTHUS (1994) helped Borski figure it out, so it might be a close\nthing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm not sure about that last:\n\n\"Once upon a time, a not-so-young man read a book called THE FIFTH \nHEAD OF CERBERUS ... Then along came a book called STROKES by John \nClute, where he learned FIFTH HEAD had a somewhat more sophisticated \nstructure and that it was even possible to deduce Number Five's real \nname, followed still later by Michael Andre-Driussi's LEXICON URTHUS...\"\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=CaveCanem.Intro\n\nSuggests to me that he deduced the name after reading Strokes (pub \n1988), but before reading LU (pub 1994).\n\nbest,\n\nMo\n\n\n# ~ # ~ #\n\nWolfeWiki -- a wiki about Gene Wolfe\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/ " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-04-09T23:05:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Neil Gaiman on Wolfe and Sorcerer's House", "in_reply_to": "<501595.92893.qm@smtp823.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 22:52 09/04/2010, Jeff Wilson wrote:\n\"Once upon a time, a not-so-young man read a book called THE FIFTH\nHEAD OF CERBERUS ... Then along came a book called STROKES by John\nClute, where he learned FIFTH HEAD had a somewhat more sophisticated\nstructure and that it was even possible to deduce Number Five's real\nname, followed still later by Michael Andre-Driussi's LEXICON URTHUS...\"\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=CaveCanem.Intro\n\nSuggests to me that he deduced the name after reading Strokes (pub\n1988), but before reading LU (pub 1994" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What about Clute, then?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4BBFE0C4.6010002@hyraxes.com>", "from": { "name": "Dave Lebling", "address": "dlebling at hyraxes.com" }, "date": "2010-04-10T02:21:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Neal Gaiman and 5HC", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This thread makes me wish I had published that (somewhere?) back when I \nfirst figured it out, which was the first time I read 5HC in Damon \nKnight's Orbit 10, in 1972 or '73. Too bad there was barely even an \nArpanet then, much less the Urth list. I think SF-Lovers was later, but \nI'm not sure.\n\nThe name of the narrator was pretty obvious from the library scene \nalone; the narrator looking for his father's books near works by \"Winge\" \n(Vernor Vinge), \"some German\" (Kate Wilhelm), Virginia Woolf, and \nBertram Wolfe. Not terribly subtle. Figuring out the other two segments \nwas much harder; that took many rereadings many years later. I was \ncompletely bewildered by them.\n\n-- Dave Lebling, aka vizcacha" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "James Wynn wrote:\nSome times it's madder than others: he was on the nose with all the clues\nthat the 5HC narrator was \"Gene Wolfe\", but also nominated the alzabo as a\nsort of gene-seeking wolf.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I thought it was Robert Borski who nailed this one first.\n\nJ.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<884955.36552.qm@smtp818.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar / UKG", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2010-04-12T07:43:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Neil Gaiman on Wolfe and Sorcerer's House", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "At 00:05 10/04/2010, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nAt 22:52 09/04/2010, Jeff Wilson wrote:\n\"Once upon a time, a not-so-young man read a book called THE FIFTH\nHEAD OF CERBERUS ... Then along came a book called STROKES by John\nClute, where he learned FIFTH HEAD had a somewhat more sophisticated\nstructure and that it was even possible to deduce Number Five's real\nname, followed still later by Michael Andre-Driussi's LEXICON URTHUS...\"\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=CaveCanem.Intro\n\nSuggests to me that he deduced the name after reading Strokes (pub\n1988), but before reading LU (pub 1994" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "What about Clute, then?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I haven't read Strokes (or anything else of Clute's on the subject), \nso I can't comment about that. Anyone else?\n\nMo\n\n\n# ~ # ~ #\n\nWolfeWiki -- a wiki about Gene Wolfe\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/ " } ] } ] }