{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5593", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5593, "subject": "TSH: Rip van Winkle and John Duns Scotus", "messages": 6, "voices": 4, "first": "2010-05-04T06:53:24+00:00", "last": "2010-05-05T04:01:41+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<105620.48921.qm@web84404.mail.ac2.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stephen Hoy", "address": "stephenhoy at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2010-05-04T06:53:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TSH: Rip van Winkle and John Duns Scotus", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Half-baked thoughts, thought I'd share them in case someone finds something useful thereby.\n\nThe philosopher/theologian John Duns Scotus is found by lining up three iterations of the Zwart Black line, \n- Ieuian, a representation of John in Welsh, which matches his brother Emlyn's Welsh name.\n- the two Dunns, Baxter and George\n- Alexander Skotus (presumably an alias used by Zwart)\n\n'Alexander' heads round to Johannes Duns Scotus via Scotus' treatises elaborating the views of Aristotle. The Greek philosopher Aristotle tutored Alexander the Great. I'm not sure what more to make of this--I can't get past thoughts about Don Defore on the TV show Hazel.\n\n\nAs to Bax's familiar, Winker/Winkle suggests a link to the story of the Urashima Taro, a \nJapanese Rip van Winkle who went away to fairyland for a few days and \nreturned home only to find years had passed.\n\nStrengthening this \nsupposition is the second half of the fox's name, Inari, which refers to a Japanese god of success & prosperity, often depicted as an old man \nriding a white fox." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mr Thalassocrat", "address": "thalassocrat08 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-04T11:45:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TSH: Rip van Winkle and John Duns Scotus", "in_reply_to": "<105620.48921.qm@web84404.mail.ac2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Stephen Hoy wrote:\nHalf-baked thoughts, thought I'd share them in case someone finds something\nuseful thereby.\n\nThe philosopher/theologian John Duns Scotus is found by lining up three\niterations of the Zwart Black line,\n- Ieuian, a representation of John in Welsh, which matches his brother\nEmlyn's Welsh name.\n- the two Dunns, Baxter and George\n- Alexander Skotus (presumably an alias used by Zwart)\n\nNice!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It reminds me that Bax describes himself to Martha as being of Scots\ndescent. He also says that the name \"Dunn\" comes from a town there (I\nthink). Wikipedia says that Duns Scotus was named after Duns in Scotland (so\nI guess his name is really \"John of Duns in Scotland\").\n\nLess interestingly: I assume that \"Ted\" is short for \"Theodore\", \"gift of\nGod\". But presumably \"Doris\" also comes from the Greek for gift (despite the\nsilly assertion on name sites on the net that its best meaning is \"Dorian\nwoman\"). No idea what that means; probably nuthin'.\n\nBut off on a tangent - do we know what Ted did for a living? My guess is\nreal estate, and that \"Ambrosius\" when he wasn't in faerie was the \"A\" in \"A\n& I Inc\", and that Ted worked for him. And also, as I said before, that Ted\nis/was Goldwurm.\n\nI have an image of small town real estate sharks with second lives as\nsorcerers fighting magical battles with each other. Apart from anything\nelse, it sounds like a good concept for a sit-com ..." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-04T12:48:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TSH: Rip van Winkle and John Duns Scotus", "in_reply_to": "<105620.48921.qm@web84404.mail.ac2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:53 AM, Stephen Hoy wrote:\n..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As to Bax's familiar, Winker/Winkle suggests a link to the story of the Urashima Taro, a\nJapanese Rip van Winkle who went away to fairyland for a few days and\nreturned home only to find years had passed.\n\nStrengthening this\nsupposition is the second half of the fox's name, Inari, which refers to a Japanese god of success & prosperity, often depicted as an old man\nriding a white fox." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Whoa, I don't see any connection there at all. I don't remember\nUrashima Taro being connected with foxes/kitsune at all - dragons, if\nanything. Nor did I ever hear of Taro as being rewarded with great\nwealth, and I'm not sure about there being any Rip van Winkle-style\ntime travel in the story." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern" } ] }, { "message_id": "<005d01caebb3$45da7ae0$35d14a0c@rclackey>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2010-05-04T17:57:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TSH: Rip van Winkle and John Duns Scotus", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Andrew quoted and wrote:\nOn Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Stephen Hoy wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Half-baked thoughts, thought I'd share them in case someone finds\nsomething\nuseful thereby.\n\nThe philosopher/theologian John Duns Scotus is found by lining up three\niterations of the Zwart Black line,\n- Ieuian, a representation of John in Welsh, which matches his brother\nEmlyn's Welsh name.\n- the two Dunns, Baxter and George\n- Alexander Skotus (presumably an alias used by Zwart)\n\nNice!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It reminds me that Bax describes himself to Martha as being of Scots\ndescent. He also says that the name \"Dunn\" comes from a town there (I\nthink). Wikipedia says that Duns Scotus was named after Duns in Scotland\n(so\nI guess his name is really \"John of Duns in Scotland\")." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That may be, but the surname Dunn came to Bax and George by way of adoption\n(17). I don't see how the surname is or can be related to the Zwart Black\nline. Martha said she was a Scot, but her original surname of Murrey is\ncloser, in terms of color, to Black than Dunn.\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mr Thalassocrat", "address": "thalassocrat08 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-05T02:06:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TSH: Rip van Winkle and John Duns Scotus", "in_reply_to": "<005d01caebb3$45da7ae0$35d14a0c@rclackey>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Roy C. Lackey wrote:\n\n\nThat may be, but the surname Dunn came to Bax and George by way of adoption\n(17). I don't see how the surname is or can be related to the Zwart Black\nline. Martha said she was a Scot, but her original surname of Murrey is\ncloser, in terms of color, to Black than Dunn." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think Duns Scotus' name is just a nice little easter egg - anyway, I hope\nunderstanding TSH doesn't require reading all of Duns Scotus' works :)\n\nSmall correction: Martha's original surname was \"Murray\", of course." } ] }, { "message_id": "<003801caec07$af6a83c0$63d14a0c@rclackey>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2010-05-05T04:01:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TSH: Rip van Winkle and John Duns Scotus", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Andrew quoted and wrote:\nThat may be, but the surname Dunn came to Bax and George by way of\nadoption\n(17). I don't see how the surname is or can be related to the Zwart\nBlack\nline. Martha said she was a Scot, but her original surname of Murrey is\ncloser, in terms of color, to Black than Dunn." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think Duns Scotus' name is just a nice little easter egg - anyway, I\nhope\nunderstanding TSH doesn't require reading all of Duns Scotus' works :)\n\nSmall correction: Martha's original surname was \"Murray\", of course." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You are, of course, quite correct. That's three I've made in the last couple\nweeks!\n\n-Roy" } ] } ] }