{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5606",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 5606,
    "subject": "the garden of sleep and a couple of other things",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2010-05-17T15:58:34+00:00",
    "last": "2010-05-17T15:58:34+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<AANLkTinwb8cSqwuuaJ1kqjWARe9FN-SvtSoV88FgiMdy@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Cliff Judge",
        "address": "transentient at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-05-17T15:58:34+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) the garden of sleep and a couple of other things",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "When Severian is nearly drowned by the nenuphars, his description of the\nevents show that he was confused about which direction is up and which is\ndown. This is something that I have read people who are nearly drowned\ndescribe. I believe it was something like, he felt like he was pushed up,\nand then pulled down....when really what must have happened is the undine\nwho freed him pulled him down, to get him under the mats of nenuphar, and\nthen pushed him up to the surface.\n\nIn the garden of sleep he reaches down to retrieve Terminus Est and one hand\ngives it to him, then another grasps his other hand and pulls him down. Then\nthe chapter breaks and he is being helped UP onto the path by Dorcas.\n\nWhile in the boat with Hildegrinn later, he sees a manatee - an Undine -\nunder the water. So what I think happened is, the Undine handed him his\nsword, and then Dorcas pulled him up.\n\nCas = Dorcas?\n\nAlso, for reasons I shall you spare you all from, I have embarked on a\ndo-it-yourself fence repair project in my yard. As I entered my second hour\nof trying to free this lump of badly-poured concrete from the earth in my\nbackyard, for the twelfth time the writing on Hildegrinn's card flashed\nthrough my head. Why, oh why, could I not call upon his services?\n\nMoving along...did Agia really stash the Claw in Severian's sabretache when\nthey initially wrecked the Pelegrines' altar, and then tried to pickpocket\nit in Agilus's cell? Or did she plant it on him during the encounter in the\ncell? We had already established that the Claw goes where it will at that\npoint in the story, perhaps it compelled Agia to hand it to Severian. And we\nhad also established that Agia was, as some women I have known, bat-shit\ninsane. I think it might be interesting to see her as an unwitting tool of\ndivine will, instead of an independent actor or random element.\n\nAnother thing I find interesting about Agilus and Agia's plot to kill Sev\nwas that it was apparently motivated by a lust for his sword? On the surface\nlevel, sure, that's basically a complex form of banditry - they run this\nshop, when they see people with nice things they pretend to be a Septention\nand issue a challenge to a duel with Averns, which most people who don't\nlive in those quarters will, no doubt, be quite unprofficient with. But on a\ndeeper level, you've got two lower-class people who are willing to kill for\nSeverian's sword, which is his symbol of office, an emblem of his station in\nthe ancient power structure of the world.\n\nAlso...I was at this exhibition of sword-related martial arts the other week\n(Swordfest 2010) and saw a demo by a guy who is trying to reconstruct\nBolognese dueling techniques from some old manuscripts. There was some\ninteresting explanations of what Bolognese dueling was about in the 1600s.\nApparently if the courts were unable to come to a verdict in a suit between\ngentlemen, they'd order them to duel, to basically leave the matter up to\nGod and whoever had greater skill. The DEFENDANT was the one who chose the\nweapons used - anything from a small rapier to a halberd to a gigantic\ngreatsword called a \"spidoon\". And the plaintiff had to make the initial\nattack - which generally speaking puts him at a disadvantage. At any rate,\nallowing the challenger to choose weapons seems to be an unfair type of\njudicial dueling.\n\nSeverian was distracted by the sight of the two Avern leaves engaging in a\nmid-flight duel, and Agilus put another leaf in his chest. Then, as he was\ncoming back to life, he describes a reassuring presence pressing on his\nback, spine-to-spine. Now that I've read the whole three series once, that's\ngot to be the presence of God he feels. Any thoughts as to why he feels God\nis back-to-back with him?"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}