{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5609", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5609, "subject": "the wall and baldanders", "messages": 11, "voices": 8, "first": "2010-05-18T14:39:37+00:00", "last": "2010-05-18T21:27:46+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Cliff Judge", "address": "transentient at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T14:39:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What is the deal with Baldanders claiming he never dreams the morning after\nthe show at Cteiphon's Cross, when the morning after Severian sleeps next to\nhim he describes having a dream, possibly the same dream as Sev?\n\nThe Wall is a Long Sun class colony ship, isn't it? Sticking up out of the\nground like the ships in the Citadel. Either incomplete or mostly buried." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Pedro Pereira", "address": "domus_artemis at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T14:43:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You mean the Wall around Nexus? I think it's a cyclothron (a particle accelerator).\n \n\n\nDate: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:39:37 -0400\nFrom: transentient at gmail.com\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: (urth) the wall and baldanders\n\nWhat is the deal with Baldanders claiming he never dreams the morning after the show at Cteiphon's Cross, when the morning after Severian sleeps next to him he describes having a dream, possibly the same dream as Sev?\n\nThe Wall is a Long Sun class colony ship, isn't it? Sticking up out of the ground like the ships in the Citadel. Either incomplete or mostly buried. \n \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "John Watkins", "address": "john.watkins04 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T14:44:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...that's a really good idea.\n\nMy question is, wouldn't constructing such a ship in-atmosphere be much more\ndifficult than doing it in space?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Cliff Judge wrote:\nWhat is the deal with Baldanders claiming he never dreams the morning after\nthe show at Cteiphon's Cross, when the morning after Severian sleeps next to\nhim he describes having a dream, possibly the same dream as Sev?\n\nThe Wall is a Long Sun class colony ship, isn't it? Sticking up out of the\nground like the ships in the Citadel. Either incomplete or mostly buried.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T14:54:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The Wall is a Long Sun class colony ship, isn't it? Sticking up out of the\nground like the ships in the Citadel. Either incomplete or mostly buried." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Wall's big, but not that big." } ] }, { "message_id": "<728696.17466.qm@web50701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T17:18:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Cliff Judge \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Tue, May 18, 2010 8:39:37 AM\nSubject: (urth) the wall and baldanders\nWhat is the deal with Baldanders claiming he never dreams the morning after the show at Cteiphon's Cross, when the morning after Severian sleeps\nnext to him he describes having a dream, possibly the same dream as Sev?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As I recall, he had a dream with images from Severian's memory (I feel I should call it a Memory), and Severian had a dream with images from Baldanders's memory or thoughts or future or something. But that's a good question. Maybe Baldanders stopped dreaming? Maybe it was a random lie?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The Wall is a Long Sun class colony ship, isn't it? Sticking up out of the ground like the ships in the Citadel. Either incomplete or mostly buried. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It seems too circular for that, unless you think it's the end layer, like the first coil of a pot. But I don't think building a Whorl-class ship on Earth or Urth, instead of in space, makes any sense at all (which is my answer to John Watkins's question).\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T17:22:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "<728696.17466.qm@web50701.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Isn't it directly stated that the Whorl (and thus presumably any ship\nof its class) was constructed by hollowing out/inflating an asteroid?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Jerry Friedman\n wrote:\nFrom: Cliff Judge \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Tue, May 18, 2010 8:39:37 AM\nSubject: (urth) the wall and baldanders" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "What is the deal with Baldanders claiming he never dreams the morning\nafter the show at Cteiphon's Cross, when the morning after Severian sleeps\nnext to him he describes having a dream, possibly the same dream as Sev?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As I recall, he had a dream with images from Severian's memory (I feel I\nshould call it a Memory), and Severian had a dream with images from\nBaldanders's memory or thoughts or future or something. But that's a good\nquestion. Maybe Baldanders stopped dreaming? Maybe it was a random lie?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The Wall is a Long Sun class colony ship, isn't it? Sticking up out of the\nground like the ships in the Citadel. Either incomplete or mostly buried." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It seems too circular for that, unless you think it's the end layer, like\nthe first coil of a pot. But I don't think building a Whorl-class ship on\nEarth or Urth, instead of in space, makes any sense at all (which is my\nanswer to John Watkins's question).\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<000901caf6b6$1c8c06a0$78cd4a0c@rclackey>", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2010-05-18T18:15:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dan'l wrote:\nIsn't it directly stated that the Whorl (and thus presumably any ship\nof its class) was constructed by hollowing out/inflating an asteroid?<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah. From the list of proper names in RTTW:\n\n\"The _WHORL_, a spaceship whose vast interior cavity constitutes a small\nworld -- originally, an asteroid.\"\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Cliff Judge", "address": "transentient at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T18:43:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It would most likely be vastly more difficult to build the thing on earth.\nBut if you have access to good contragrav technology, not impossible, right?\n\nWasn't Typhon at odds with some hiero-people when he was building the Whorl?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:44 AM, John Watkins wrote:\n...that's a really good idea.\n\nMy question is, wouldn't constructing such a ship in-atmosphere be much\nmore difficult than doing it in space?\n\nOn Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Cliff Judge wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "What is the deal with Baldanders claiming he never dreams the morning\nafter the show at Cteiphon's Cross, when the morning after Severian sleeps\nnext to him he describes having a dream, possibly the same dream as Sev?\n\nThe Wall is a Long Sun class colony ship, isn't it? Sticking up out of the\nground like the ships in the Citadel. Either incomplete or mostly buried.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T19:06:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'd always thought the Wall was just a scaled-up version of the Citadel\nwall. (And I thought that one was a blast shield for lifting spaceships\nlike the Matachin tower.) That requires thinking that in some earlier age,\nplanetfall-capable spaceships were a lot bigger - but not Whorl-sized.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Cliff Judge wrote:\nIt would most likely be vastly more difficult to build the thing on earth.\nBut if you have access to good contragrav technology, not impossible, right?\n\nWasn't Typhon at odds with some hiero-people when he was building the\nWhorl?\n\nOn Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:44 AM, John Watkins wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "...that's a really good idea.\n\nMy question is, wouldn't constructing such a ship in-atmosphere be much\nmore difficult than doing it in space?\n\nOn Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Cliff Judge wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "What is the deal with Baldanders claiming he never dreams the morning\nafter the show at Cteiphon's Cross, when the morning after Severian sleeps\nnext to him he describes having a dream, possibly the same dream as Sev?\n\nThe Wall is a Long Sun class colony ship, isn't it? Sticking up out of\nthe ground like the ships in the Citadel. Either incomplete or mostly\nburied.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Cliff Judge", "address": "transentient at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T21:06:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I assumed Nessus was really really big. It's very old, still expanding, and\nyet there is a bunch of real estate inside the wall that is rural.\n\nHow big in diameter does the Whorl need to be? Fifty miles?\n\nApparently the Citadel is in the center of Nessus...and Sev leaves it,\nspends all day and all night walking, stays at the Inn and meets Dr Talos\nand Baldanders, encounters Agia, has a crazy ride in a fiacre, winds up at\nthe Sanguniary Field, then after executing Agilus and rejoining the troupe,\nit seems like the next day they don't have to walk too far to get to the\nWall.\n\nIt seems to me he could have crossed a pretty considerable distance in that\ntime." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nThe Wall is a Long Sun class colony ship, isn't it? Sticking up out of\nthe\nground like the ships in the Citadel. Either incomplete or mostly buried." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The Wall's big, but not that big.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3e4750c6617a9868811ee34f20a7253d.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-05-18T21:27:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the wall and baldanders", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I assumed Nessus was really really big. It's very old, still expanding,\nand\nyet there is a bunch of real estate inside the wall that is rural.\n\nHow big in diameter does the Whorl need to be? Fifty miles?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "They might have similar diameters, but the Whorl is similarly long or\nlonger lengthwise, and is visibly (from the outside) made from an\nasteroid. The Wall is overtly artificial and there's just not enough room\nfor miles of height extending into the sky or depth below the soil.\n\n\nThe best-sounding guess I've heard is that the great Wall surrounded the\nworld's primary spaceport in some earlier age, partly for controlling\ningress and egress and partly as a protective berm in case of an accident.\nThe towers of the citadel are the grounded ships of course, and the\ncitadel's curtain wall was added in a later but still antique age to form\na redoubt within the Wall. The curtain wall is generally masonry, but the\nGreat Wall may also be an atom smasher or otherwise serve a third purpose." } ] } ] }