{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5618", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5618, "subject": "On the allocation of blankets", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2010-06-02T18:14:37+00:00", "last": "2010-06-03T11:02:09+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tony Ellis", "address": "tonyellis69 at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2010-06-02T18:14:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) On the allocation of blankets", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I really don't think it's that convoluted. Everyone except Thais can\nsee that it is only Odilo's old-fashioned gallantry that is making him\nrefuse the blanket he badly needs. Severian's \"why don't you use it\nuntil I'm ready for it?\" is transparently a way of getting him to take\nit without losing face.\n\nThais doesn't say anything until Severian has said this, so most\nlikely she was about to say \"I could do with another blanket, if it's\ngoing spare.\"\n\nOdilo would never have accepted the blanket after that, so the\ncompassionate Pega, who has already taken a shine to him, quickly\nshuts Thais up." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Scott Cooper", "address": "sec6 at adelphia.net" }, "date": "2010-06-02T23:05:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) On the allocation of blankets", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right: just because it's Wolfe doesn't mean it has to be convoluted. \nI strongly agree with that.\n\nI hadn't thought of your interpretation, and it fits the text well. \nWhat's more, it explains why the first word out of her mouth was \"I,\" \nand relates it to the foregoing passage where Pega is talking to Odilo \nin a low voice. On the other hand, asking for a *second* blanket \nwould have been extraordinarily selfish. Do we really have any \nindication she's -- not just that selfish, but that indifferent to \nwhat people think of her selfishness? She'd be like Jolenta, in that \ncase.\n\nIf we're going with a \"not convoluted\" explanation, then I'd go with \nmy #3, i.e. what she's about to say is \"You can share MY blanket any \ntime, big boy\" or words to that effect.\n\nMy reason for thinking there might be a \"convoluted\" interpretation \nwas the following principle of Lupine exegesis: where there's a \nmystery, there's a clue. I think we can agree there's some mystery \nabout Thais. The typical Wolfe clue is (I assert) a minor detail \nwhich, if you even notice it makes you ask \"why did he even include \nthat?\" The whole Odilo/Pega/Thais episode only occupies a few pages, \nand, looking within it for such a detail, I found the elbow-in-the- \nribs episode. That's why I thought it a question worth asking.\n\nAlso, incidentally:\nAre you sure old fashioned gallantry would have prevented Odilo from \naccepting the blanket after Thais asked for it? What he's displayed \ntowards her up to that point isn't gallantry -- it's irritation. I \nthink a more likely explanation why he wouldn't accept the blanket if \nshe asked for it is that he suspects she's of exultant caste (but \nsuspects, too, that she's only pretending to be.) I think his \nirritation's provoked by that ambiguity: it's just the sort of thing \nthat would get on his nerves." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/2/10, at 2:14 PM, Tony Ellis wrote:\nI really don't think it's that convoluted. Everyone except Thais can\nsee that it is only Odilo's old-fashioned gallantry that is making him\nrefuse the blanket he badly needs. Severian's \"why don't you use it\nuntil I'm ready for it?\" is transparently a way of getting him to take\nit without losing face.\n\nThais doesn't say anything until Severian has said this, so most\nlikely she was about to say \"I could do with another blanket, if it's\ngoing spare.\"\n\nOdilo would never have accepted the blanket after that, so the\ncompassionate Pega, who has already taken a shine to him, quickly\nshuts Thais up.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tony Ellis", "address": "tonyellis69 at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2010-06-03T11:02:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) On the allocation of blankets", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Do we really have any\nindication she's -- not just that selfish, but that indifferent to\nwhat people think of her selfishness?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "She's cynical, secretive... and a prostitute, with all the hardened\nself-interest that implies. Works for me." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If we're going with a \"not convoluted\" explanation, then I'd go with\nmy #3, i.e. what she's about to say is \"You can share MY blanket any\ntime, big boy\" or words to that effect." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Also a good explanation. But as I say, Thais doesn't start to speak\nuntil *after* Severian has said he doesn't need his blanket — whereas\nif Wolfe only wanted to show that blanket-sharing was her agenda, he\ncould have had her speak up before. The implication is that whatever\nshe was about to say was prompted by the possibility of a spare\nblanket.\n\nThere's also the matter of aesthetics. Pega has taken a fancy to\nOdilo. Pega protecting Odilo, with a sharp elbow to the ribs of the\nself-interested Thais, is a nice payoff to this little vignette. Pega\nelbowing Thais simply for impropriety... is not." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Are you sure old fashioned gallantry would have prevented Odilo from\naccepting the blanket after Thais asked for it?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's how Odilo seems to me - but it's how Odilo seems to Pega that matters." } ] } ] }