{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5641", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5641, "subject": "Someday they'll want us", "messages": 13, "voices": 7, "first": "2010-06-25T13:48:16+00:00", "last": "2010-06-28T04:03:36+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2010-06-25T13:48:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think the only manipulator who actually counts is Mr. Million. All the \nother clones are his test subjects. Note that Auntie Jeanine died rather \nprecipitously after she began acting as though she owned the house." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nAn interesting perspective! I had tended to think of Mr. Million as a kindly\ngreat grandfather with a true soft spot for his boys (David too, yes?) who \nperhaps regretted the process he set in motion and was concerned for the \nself-clones which had been sold around the city as slaves. I guess that \nkindly aspect is perverted by the fact that it is a monstrous sort of conceited\nself-love.\n \nIf you are correct that Mr. Million remains a manipulative, murderous person\nI guess that is hardly a shocker, given the details of the plot. Thanks for a\nnew perspective. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C24BFF1.5040602@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-06-25T14:40:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I think the only manipulator who actually counts is Mr. Million. All the\nother clones are his test subjects. Note that Auntie Jeanine died rather\nprecipitously after she began acting as though she owned the house.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "An interesting perspective! I had tended to think of Mr. Million as a kindly\ngreat grandfather with a true soft spot for his boys (David too, yes?) who\nperhaps regretted the process he set in motion and was concerned for the\nself-clones which had been sold around the city as slaves. I guess that\nkindly aspect is perverted by the fact that it is a monstrous sort of conceited\nself-love.\n\nIf you are correct that Mr. Million remains a manipulative, murderous person\nI guess that is hardly a shocker, given the details of the plot. Thanks for a\nnew perspective. \t\t \t \t\t\n\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Another hint is Number 5's dream. The dead man steering the ship has Mr \nMillion's face. Obviously it is his own face too. But Number 5 \nspecifically connected it with Mr. Million." } ] }, { "message_id": "<599a1.4a36aa8c.3957b496@aol.com>", "from": { "name": "JBarach at aol.com", "address": "jbarach at aol.com" }, "date": "2010-06-26T19:52:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<4C24BFF1.5040602@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n_severiansola at hotmail.com_ (mailto:severiansola at hotmail.com) writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I think the only manipulator who actually counts is Mr. Million. All the \nother clones are his test subjects. Note that Auntie Jeanine died rather \nprecipitously after she began acting as though she owned the house." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "An interesting perspective! I had tended to think of Mr. Million as a\nkindly great grandfather with a true soft spot for his boys (David too,\nyes?) who perhaps regretted the process he set in motion and was\nconcerned for the self-clones which had been sold around the city\nas slaves. I guess that kindly aspect is perverted by the fact that\nit is a monstrous sort of conceited self-love.\n\nIf you are correct that Mr. Million remains a manipulative, murderous\nperson I guess that is hardly a shocker, given the details of the plot.\nThanks for a new perspective. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nWhy have a robot raise the children? It seems to me that it's to ensure \nthat the education they receive is exactly the same. After all, \"Gene \nWolfe\" wants to make sure that all the other Gene Wolfes that follow him are not \nonly Gene-etic (a pun I suspect Wolfe had in mind, given the focus on his \nname throughout the story: we think he's only talking about wolves in \nstories, but I suspect he's also talking about genes) replicas but also replicas \nin every other way, especially education and upbringing. Of course, he \ncan't control *everything* but as many things as he can control he is \ncontrolling in order to make sure that every cloned son is as like him as \npossible until he/they finally achieve/s his/their full potential. \n \nOur own Jim Jordan (aka Patera Nutria) has pointed out the similarities \nbetween cloning and incest in one of his essays, and he mentions Fifth Head \n(and the movie Chinatown) in this connection. Both cloning and incest \nexclude the other -- cloning more dramatically, of course. Cloning, as Maitre \npractices it, is designed to keep \"yourself\" intact, to keep exactly the \nsame genes instead of mixing them with the genes of others and thereby \n\"debasing\" them. Mr. Million allows you to give your clones and their clones and \nso forth *exactly* the same upbringing, with no pollution from outside. \nBut the result is that there can be no growth. The result is stagnation. \n \nThe same is true, mutatis mutandis, with incest: The family is idolized, \nand to keep the family going *and staying the same*, you have children with \nyour daughter (idolatry in particular of the father: \"I father my children, \nmy grandchildren, and so forth\") or your son marries your daughter (that \nis, a girl with exactly the same upbringing, same family traditions, etc.). \nAfter all, you've developed your traditions (e.g., opening gifts on \nChristmas Eve, not on Christmas Day) but if your son marries some girl outside \nyour family, he might change all those traditions. He might not even come \nhome for Thanksgiving. You have your family secrets, but if your daughter \nmarries some guy outside the family, she might tell him your secrets. And so \non. To \"keep the family strong,\" the family is restricted to its own \nbounds ... and the result, instead of strength, is weakness, stagnation, and \ndebasement.\n \nChange and growth and maturity and glorification require interaction with \nand intermarriage with the Other, with someone outside. (There are some \nprofound theological reasons behind this, which Jordan explores in his essay, \nas does Peter Leithart in a forthcoming essay in a festschrift for \nJordan). You have to marry someone different, someone outside your own family. \nYou don't clone your children; attempting to \"save your life\" (your genes) \nin that way will result in losing it and losing the world. The only way to \n\"save your life\" and gain the world is to lose it, to give it away, to care \nnot at all about preserving your genes. If you're concerned about your \nGenes, you become a Wolf.\n \nJohn\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C265F66.50503@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-06-26T20:13:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<599a1.4a36aa8c.3957b496@aol.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "BotNS has similar concerns.\n\nNice punwork!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "JBarach at aol.com wrote:\nseveriansola at hotmail.com writes:\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I think the only manipulator who actually counts is Mr. Million. All \nthe\nother clones are his test subjects. Note that Auntie Jeanine died \nrather\nprecipitously after she began acting as though she owned the house." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "An interesting perspective! I had tended to think of Mr. Million as a\nkindly great grandfather with a true soft spot for his boys (David too,\nyes?) who perhaps regretted the process he set in motion and was\nconcerned for the self-clones which had been sold around the city\nas slaves. I guess that kindly aspect is perverted by the fact that\nit is a monstrous sort of conceited self-love.\n\nIf you are correct that Mr. Million remains a manipulative, murderous\nperson I guess that is hardly a shocker, given the details of the plot.\nThanks for a new perspective. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " \nWhy have a robot raise the children? It seems to me that it's to \nensure that the education they receive is exactly the same. After \nall, \"Gene Wolfe\" wants to make sure that all the other Gene Wolfes \nthat follow him are not only Gene-etic (a pun I suspect Wolfe had in \nmind, given the focus on his name throughout the story: we think he's \nonly talking about wolves in stories, but I suspect he's also talking \nabout genes) replicas but also replicas in every other way, especially \neducation and upbringing. Of course, he can't control *everything* \nbut as many things as he can control he is controlling in order to \nmake sure that every cloned son is as like him as possible until \nhe/they finally achieve/s his/their full potential. \n \nOur own Jim Jordan (aka Patera Nutria) has pointed out the \nsimilarities between cloning and incest in one of his essays, and he \nmentions /Fifth Head/ (and the movie /Chinatown/) in this connection. \nBoth cloning and incest exclude the other -- cloning more \ndramatically, of course. Cloning, as Maitre practices it, is designed \nto keep \"yourself\" intact, to keep exactly the same genes instead of \nmixing them with the genes of others and thereby \"debasing\" them. Mr. \nMillion allows you to give your clones and their clones and so forth \n*exactly* the same upbringing, with no pollution from outside. But \nthe result is that there can be no growth. The result is stagnation. \n \nThe same is true, mutatis mutandis, with incest: The family is \nidolized, and to keep the family going *and staying the same*, you \nhave children with your daughter (idolatry in particular of the \nfather: \"I father my children, my grandchildren, and so forth\") or \nyour son marries your daughter (that is, a girl with exactly the same \nupbringing, same family traditions, etc.). After all, you've \ndeveloped your traditions (e.g., opening gifts on Christmas Eve, not \non Christmas Day) but if your son marries some girl outside your \nfamily, he might change all those traditions. He might not even come \nhome for Thanksgiving. You have your family secrets, but if your \ndaughter marries some guy outside the family, she might tell him your \nsecrets. And so on. To \"keep the family strong,\" the family is \nrestricted to its own bounds ... and the result, instead of strength, \nis weakness, stagnation, and debasement.\n \nChange and growth and maturity and glorification require interaction \nwith and intermarriage with the Other, with someone outside. (There \nare some profound theological reasons behind this, which Jordan \nexplores in his essay, as does Peter Leithart in a forthcoming essay \nin a festschrift for Jordan). You have to marry someone different, \nsomeone outside your own family. You don't clone your children; \nattempting to \"save your life\" (your genes) in that way will result in \nlosing it and losing the world. The only way to \"save your life\" and \ngain the world is to lose it, to give it away, to care not at all \nabout preserving your genes. If you're concerned about your Genes, \nyou become a Wolf.\n \nJohn\n \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerryq at indigo.ie" }, "date": "2010-06-27T11:19:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<599a1.4a36aa8c.3957b496@aol.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Why have a robot raise the children? It seems to me that it's to ensure that the education they receive is exactly the same. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Possibly. But it may also be that in Port Mimizon, public education leaves something to be desired. Indeed, it appears standard among the rich or middle clesses of Port Mimizon not to be attending whaty we would recognise as an ordinary school - though it could also simply be, of course, that Phaedra, Marydol etc. are the only other children the narrator knows. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "After all, \"Gene Wolfe\" wants to make sure that all the other Gene Wolfes that follow him are not only Gene-etic (a pun I suspect Wolfe had in mind, given the focus on his name throughout the story: we think he's only talking about wolves in stories, but I suspect he's also talking about genes) replicas but also replicas in every other way, especially education and upbringing. Of course, he can't control *everything* but as many things as he can control he is controlling in order to make sure that every cloned son is as like him as possible until he/they finally achieve/s his/their full potential. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Controlling everything? I suppose you could consider writing a book that way..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Change and growth and maturity and glorification require interaction with and intermarriage with the Other, with someone outside. (There are some profound theological reasons behind this, which Jordan explores in his essay, as does Peter Leithart in a forthcoming essay in a festschrift for Jordan). You have to marry someone different, someone outside your own family. You don't clone your children; attempting to \"save your life\" (your genes) in that way will result in losing it and losing the world. The only way to \"save your life\" and gain the world is to lose it, to give it away, to care not at all about preserving your genes. If you're concerned about your Genes, you become a Wolf." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "See also Urth/Ushas.\n\nAnd maybe 'The Outsider'?\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C274809.4010200@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-06-27T12:46:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Why have a robot raise the children? It seems to me that it's to \nensure that the education they receive is exactly the same." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The purpose of their education was to observe the differences in \nintelligence and adaptability between the clone (N5) and the \"control\" \n(David). This experiment could not be performed in a sterile environment \nin any other setting. The variant chance experiences would be impossible \nto calculate.\n\nPresumably, the robot was the most educated person there.\n\nOf course, I think there is a third, over-riding issue. Million was \nperforming the experiment, so he was the only one to do it. He was \nobserving N5 and the control, just as he was observing Maitre's \nperformance simultaneously.\n\nU+16B9" } ] }, { "message_id": "<77b1c.3904ad51.3958c77e@aol.com>", "from": { "name": "JBarach at aol.com", "address": "jbarach at aol.com" }, "date": "2010-06-27T15:25:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<4C274809.4010200@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wrote:\nAfter all, \"Gene Wolfe\" wants to make sure that all\nthe other Gene Wolfes that follow him are not only\nGene-etic (a pun I suspect Wolfe had in mind, given\nthe focus on his name throughout the story: we think\nhe's only talking about wolves in stories, but I suspect\nhe's also talking about genes) replicas but also replicas\nin every other way, especially education and upbringing. \nOf course, he can't control *everything* but as many\nthings as he can control he is controlling in order to\nmake sure that every cloned son is as like him as\npossible until he/they finally achieve/s his/their full potential. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nGerry responds:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Controlling everything? I suppose you could consider writing\na book that way..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nSorry for the confusion. I put \"Gene Wolfe\" in quotation marks because I \nwasn't referring to the *author* of Fifth Head of Cerberus, but to the \ncharacter. Number 5's name (and the name of his father) is \"Gene Wolfe,\" \naccording to Borski's essay, and I think he's right. So the \"Gene Wolfe\" I was \nreferring to was Maitre.\n \nJohn\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<1026664305AA40D8BE4FCC58AF562A56@jill>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerryq at indigo.ie" }, "date": "2010-06-27T20:08:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<77b1c.3904ad51.3958c77e@aol.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I understood that. I agree that 'Gene Wolfe' can very well be the name of the narrator of 'Fifth Head' (same applies to 'Procreation') and I wasn't disagreeing with you... I was alluding to the fact that Wolfe controls everying in his books. He is known to edit multi-volume works as a whole, going back to change things in the early pages that might disagree with his grand scheme - I was only making a reference to this, not to anything that you said.\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n\n ----- Original Message ----- \n From: JBarach at aol.com \n To: urth at lists.urth.net \n Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 4:25 PM\n Subject: Re: (urth) Someday they'll want us" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I wrote:\nAfter all, \"Gene Wolfe\" wants to make sure that all\nthe other Gene Wolfes that follow him are not only\nGene-etic (a pun I suspect Wolfe had in mind, given\nthe focus on his name throughout the story: we think\nhe's only talking about wolves in stories, but I suspect\nhe's also talking about genes) replicas but also replicas\nin every other way, especially education and upbringing. \nOf course, he can't control *everything* but as many\nthings as he can control he is controlling in order to\nmake sure that every cloned son is as like him as\npossible until he/they finally achieve/s his/their full potential. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Gerry responds:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Controlling everything? I suppose you could consider writing\na book that way..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Sorry for the confusion. I put \"Gene Wolfe\" in quotation marks because I wasn't referring to the *author* of Fifth Head of Cerberus, but to the character. Number 5's name (and the name of his father) is \"Gene Wolfe,\" according to Borski's essay, and I think he's right. So the \"Gene Wolfe\" I was referring to was Maitre." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C27B2F0.6000603@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-06-27T20:22:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<4C274809.4010200@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/27/2010 7:46 AM, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Why have a robot raise the children? It seems to me that it's to\nensure that the education they receive is exactly the same." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The purpose of their education was to observe the differences in\nintelligence and adaptability between the clone (N5) and the \"control\"\n(David). This experiment could not be performed in a sterile environment\nin any other setting. The variant chance experiences would be impossible\nto calculate." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm not sure this can be a valid controlled experiment other than on the \npurely genetic level, where technically #5 is the control (no introduced \nvariation) and David would be the \"treatement group\" in that he \nrepresents some sort of deviation from the numbered series. \nBehaviorally, it's not controlled at all, since both boys are being \nraised with companions different from themselves rather than alone or \nwith fellow clones of #1.\n\nAnd this may be the point in that outside of #1's discovery of the \ncloning technique, the clones are hacks who are hazy on experimental \nscience, explaining the emphasis on history and evolutionary biology as \nfields safely free of experimental possibilities (at the time of writing)." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C27F89D.9030600@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-06-28T01:19:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<4C27B2F0.6000603@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The purpose of their education was to observe the differences in\nintelligence and adaptability between the clone (N5) and the \"control\"\n(David). This experiment could not be performed in a sterile environment\nin any other setting. The variant chance experiences would be impossible\nto calculate." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm not sure this can be a valid controlled experiment other than on \nthe purely genetic level, where technically #5 is the control (no \nintroduced variation) and David would be the \"treatement group\" in \nthat he represents some sort of deviation from the numbered series. \nBehaviorally, it's not controlled at all, since both boys are being \nraised with companions different from themselves rather than alone or \nwith fellow clones of #1.\n\nAnd this may be the point in that outside of #1's discovery of the \ncloning technique, the clones are hacks who are hazy on experimental \nscience, explaining the emphasis on history and evolutionary biology \nas fields safely free of experimental possibilities (at the time of \nwriting)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I say David is the \"control\" because N5 is actually the subject of the \nexperiment. David and Jeanine represent \"all the other people on the \nplanet\". Maitre is uninterested in them. N5 and his forebearers are the \npuzzle. They don't advance in influence despite their superior \nintellect, resources, and scientific method. You've put your finger on \nthe problem, though...the experiment should be examining the types of \npeople who have advanced without the clones' advantages using clones as \nthe control. This is hinted at in N5's dream: They don't advance because \nthey have been engineered not to.\n\nHaving read 'Fifth Head' first, I was quite skeptical of the viability \nC. Doctorow's society in \"Down & Out in the Magic Kingdom\" which \naccomplishes much the same thing by turning everyone into Mr. Millions.\n\n~ U+16B9" } ] }, { "message_id": "<796489.60790.qm@web50703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2010-06-28T01:39:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<1026664305AA40D8BE4FCC58AF562A56@jill>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Gerry Quinn \nI understood that. I agree that 'Gene Wolfe' can very well be the \nname of the narrator of 'Fifth\nHead' (same applies to 'Procreation') and I " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "wasn't disagreeing with you... \n\nIn fact, I think it's crucial that his name can be (almost certainly is) Gene Wolfe. Anyone, including the author, would give rise to people as evil as Maitre and Number 5 if they embarked on that cloning project. And how does /Pirate Freedom/ fit in here, since Chris may be a clone? (Proposed interview question: \"Human cloning may be possible now or soon. What do you think would happen if you were cloned? Could the story resemble 'The Fifth Head of Cerberus'?\"\n\n I like the theory, which I may have read on rasfw many years ago, that we should read \"someday they'll want us\" as meaning that one of the clones could become the Antichrist or the Beast. Their address is 666 Saltimbanque Street, after all. (A clone/clown pun?)\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C280827.7020001@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-06-28T02:25:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<796489.60790.qm@web50703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For a similar theme, see John Crowley's \"Great Work of Time.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jerry Friedman wrote:\n*From:* Gerry Quinn \n**\nI understood that. I agree that 'Gene Wolfe' can very well be the \nname of the narrator of 'Fifth\nHead' (same applies to 'Procreation') and I wasn't disagreeing with \nyou...\n\nIn fact, I think it's crucial that his name can be (almost certainly \nis) Gene Wolfe. Anyone, including the author, would give rise to \npeople as evil as Maitre and Number 5 if they embarked on that cloning \nproject. And how does /Pirate Freedom/ fit in here, since Chris may \nbe a clone? (Proposed interview question: \"Human cloning may be \npossible now or soon. What do you think would happen if you were \ncloned? Could the story resemble 'The Fifth Head of Cerberus'?\"\n\n I like the theory, which I may have read on rasfw many years ago, \nthat we should read \"someday they'll want us\" as meaning that one of \nthe clones could become the Antichrist or the Beast. Their address is \n666 Saltimbanque Street, after all. (A clone/clown pun?)\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C281F18.3090605@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-06-28T04:03:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Someday they'll want us", "in_reply_to": "<796489.60790.qm@web50703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/27/2010 8:39 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:\nI like the theory, which I may have read on rasfw many years ago, that\nwe should read \"someday they'll want us\" as meaning that one of the\nclones could become the Antichrist or the Beast. Their address is 666\nSaltimbanque Street, after all. (A clone/clown pun?)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I bet they have one hell of a Mardi Gras there." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >" } ] } ] }